AAANROLD Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 This has been a contraversial topic for alot of freakin years.Ok hes done alot of stuff. Like making the world. They have found many ruins of proof that Jesus exists. http://www.hightruth.com/faq/01real.html A.S. Hes real yall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 AAArnold, I deleted your other two spam posts in this forum, in case you are wondering where they went. Please consider yourself warned in all sense of the term. Frivalous posts and spam are not tolerated in the Senate Chambers. Here, we stick to serious discussion and debate only. It's been a while since I warned you last, so I'll let it go, but another such post will result in a request for a temporary ban. This thread, however, is more along the lines of the type of thing that we could discuss in the Senate, even if a little over done. But I'll give yous some of my ideas on the subject. The idea of a god or gods is one that goes back for as long as man has been able to maintain a culture. There are likely many things that have led up to the current belief systems that are in place in different cultures, which inlude monotheistic as well as polytheistic religions. The deaths of loved ones probably initiated the beginnings of theistic religions as early hominids began to question what happens after death and attempted to ease the fears of death. The use of religion to explain the great unknowns probably followed and it was only logical to use these god(s) for such religions. In addition, religion was probably found to be an effective tool for creating status among society as well as establishing rules and expectations. As societies became more stratified and less hunter-gatherer, religion grew in importance. As to whether or not a god exists, I ask this: if it were possible for an omnipotent, omniscent being to exist, would it not follow that it is possible for other omnipotent, omniscent beings to exist? If something can create a god, why then can that something not create two? Or more? Therefore, the idea of polytheism holds more weight than monotheism. Because we don't see evidence of mulititudes of gods running around the universe doing what gods could do, it therefore follows that this type of being is rare or non-existant. If there is only one god, than it must mean that there is no room for another god to exist. If there is "no room" for this god, then the god in question must occupy all space, all the time. In order to do so, this god would have to be a part of all matter and anti-matter within the universe. So if there is a god, it is the universe in which we live and it includes ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Just because theres one, doesnt mean there HAS to be 2. Say i have $1. Theres plenty of room in my wallet for another dollar. But i just simply dont have another one. (i know i know... theres more than 1 one dollar bill in the world, but you get my example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 But the mere fact that a $1 bill exists in your wallet would indicate that another does exist somewhere. In examining the dollar, we find that it has a serial number and a denomination. Why serialize and quantify the object and only create one? But the dollar bill is a bad analogy anyway. One god in existance clearly indicates that two or more gods are equally as likely. If one was created, there had to be at least one other to create it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker So if there is a god, it is the universe in which we live and it includes ourselves. That is a strong Pantheistic idea you have there. Why don't you close all the religion threads and open one official "stuck: RELIGION THREAD". Every time I look at this forum its all the same stuff over and over. Most of the time it's religion. I should start a Thread on whether or not to debate on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Heres food for thought. The Wiccan have been around longer than Christians AND Hebrews*and don't give me that crap that it wasn't because it's mostly worshipping nature and most of its ideals are the same as it was 6000 years ago. How do I know? My friend is a druid*. Now, when Hebrews came about, the believed in a God. A single God. This of course set them apart from Wiccans. Now, when they described the Devil, what was it? A man and a goat and blah blah blah. Well, one of the main Wiccan gods is the exact description of the Devil. Now a devout Christian would say 'Well Wiccans worship the devil and the pentagram is the devil and blah blah blah'*how do I know? I once tried Wicca as a religion. I felt atheism was more my thing*. Well, the Wiccan religion has been around longer than Christianity. The Wiccan gods are older than God. The Pentagram represents the elements(Earth, Fire, Water, Air, and Spirit) and protection FROM evil, not OF evil. I almost got expelled for wearing my pentagram because it had a red gem in it(for fire), but a red 5 point star was gang related. That and I claimed that the school was unjust toward my*I was Wicca at the time, remember?* religion, and the guy insisted on taking my pentagram from me, which I of course refused. How many Christians would hand over there cross because someone demanded it*the guy was Christian and I threw that in his face*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by MydnightPsion Heres food for thought. The Wiccan have been around longer than Christians AND Hebrews Actually, there's significant evidence to suggest that Wicca is a relatively new religion, concocted by an English civil servant and amateur anthropologist named Gerald B. Gardner, who died in 1964. Philip G. Davis, a professor of religion at the University of Prince Edward Island, published a paper that argued just this and suggested that Gardner invented it in the 1950's. Gardner claimed to have "learned" the rites from an "age-old coven of witches" that belonged to the Fellowship of Crotona... no one was ever able to locate them. Gardner also obviously "borrowed" many of the rites from the infamous British occultist Alistair Crowley as well as other sources contemporary to him. Gardner also added his own personal touches.. he belonged to a nudist colony in the 1930's and, as many who have studied the Wiccan cult have noticed, there are many rituals performed in the buff. Ronald Hutton (2000) did a study on pagan rites and rituals of antiquity and discovered that none of them have survived the past into the present except perhaps decorating the yuletide with greenery or celebrating May Day with flowers. Most of the rituals we've come to believe as having pagan origins are actually of the Middle Ages, such as the Maypole dance. This misinformation is a by-product of the Protestant Reformation. Have I ever mentioned that I'm an Anthropology major? Davis, Philip. 1998. Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality Spence Publishing Hutton, Robert. 2000. The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft Oxford University Press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Cosmos Jack Every time I look at this forum its all the same stuff over and over. Most of the time it's religion. I should start a Thread on whether or not to debate on religion. You know... I actually miss the days when you and I used to disagree... But with the prevalance of religion, particularly the various flavors of christianity, in this great nation of ours, it's bound to keep coming up as a topic. Religion permeates every facet of our lives.. in fact, I would argue that the two biggest driving forces of man are belief and status. We find ways to believe in many things, from god(s) to UFO's to John Edwards to reality television. We all seek some sort of status in life... be it humble or grand. Still... the 2004 election is coming..... We may yet find an opposing view..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer511 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I almost got expelled for wearing my pentagram because it had a red gem in it(for fire), but a red 5 point star was gang related. That and I claimed that the school was unjust toward my*I was Wicca at the time, remember?* religion, and the guy insisted on taking my pentagram from me, which I of course refused. How many Christians would hand over there cross because someone demanded it*the guy was Christian and I threw that in his face*. If I had a cross I wouldn't hand it over, but only on the grounds that he does not have the authority to take it away from me, and I believe the same with your pentagram. The cross is just a symbol, a material item that represents the most important event to Christianity. It has no mystical power and you don't need one ot be a Christian. Asking him how many Christians would hand over their cross because someone demanded put him in a spot. He could have gotten fired as a teacher for saying the above to you, but then again he was already out of line for trying to take it away from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker Still... the 2004 election is coming..... We may yet find an opposing view..... I don't know BUSH has dug himself in a hole now. His popularity is like 53% I think. I'm not sure If I can support him and have a good argument "not that it's ever stoped me before." As long as it's not a Democrat 2004 we are all fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker Actually, there's significant evidence to suggest that Wicca is a relatively new religion, concocted by an English civil servant and amateur anthropologist named Gerald B. Gardner, who died in 1964. No no no. You misundestood me. Perhaps the name of Wicca is relativley new, but the beliefs are not. Wicca is, as I stated, mostly the worshipping of nature, not this hooee fooee about pagan rituals and witches and occults. Oops.... sorry Midnight... I accidently hit the "edit" button instead of the "quote" button without realizing it... I deleted some of your post. My sincerest apologies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I tried to use my browser's back button to get back to your original post to copy and paste it back in, but, alas, I'm at work and on the Internet Explorer... my Opera browser at home would have handled it nicely I think. Again, I'm really sorry... I'm answering the telephone and eating a late lunch at the same time... I just wasn't paying attention. I owe you one. Hopefully you can remember what it was that you put in the rest of your post and replace it ------------------------------------------------ Anyway, here's what I was about to post in your message: I don't know.... there might be some commonality between Wica (the original spelling) and early pagan beliefs, but one of the points I made above is that there isn't any evidence of pagan rituals (the modes of worship) still exist in modern religions... whether it be Wicca, Wica, or christianity. Durkheim believed that the common thread of early religions was totemism. A totem represented the group, even though it was typically of an animal (say an eagle, bear, kangaroo, etc.). So in essence, the group was worshiping an aspect of nature, but this aspect of nature is a representative of the group itself. Joseph Campbell, in his Power of Myth series, noted that early man relied very heavily on nature and therefore engaged in rituals of worship that gave thanks to the animal that was slaughtered or hunted for food or clothing. This was so the spirit of the animal would favor the hunter/consumer and might find another life to continue the cycle. Many cultures the world over viewed the wearing or adornment of animal skins and body parts such as horns/antlers as taking on the spirit of the animal itself. There was also much worship for the food that was grown or gathered or the resources that nature provided such as water, wood, stones (for tools), and, later, fire. Worshiping nature is not unique to the pagen cultures, but is very intrinsic with human behavior... we see everything as having a cause or source... if it cannot be explained readily, then mythology and religion take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 God, in my opinion, for the most part is just figment of the imagination to fill in what we dont know. We dont know what's going to happen after death, wether or not we'll be killed by a meteor, or that we have a purpose. So we make up reasons to ease our mind. Every single major civilation had a diety/dieties. Most were different ones. They were usually created to unite the country, and usually allowed the person(s) in supreme power to say they have "Gods(') will". It has happen in almost every civilation you can name. Egypt, Rome, Old Britian, China, and Spain. Heck, you could even say the United States to a degree, with the "In God we Trust" on the pennies. Although that really isnt as bad as the afformentioned countries. Not to say there isnt a god, it's just foolish to be blind like that. But the world's religions, present and past, usually were made because of the above reasons. Just because theres one, doesnt mean there HAS to be 2. Say i have $1. Theres plenty of room in my wallet for another dollar. But i just simply dont have another one. (i know i know... theres more than 1 one dollar bill in the world, but you get my example) That could be considered ignorance. "Oh, I havent seen any other $1, so there simply couldn't be any other bills in the entire world/galaxy/universe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 The argument that god was created by man is much more believable than the other way around. I can't say with any certianty that there isnt a god or gods, but I'm sure humanities perception and preconceptions of them are very limited. How can one understand the infinite? Is a cell aware of what it is part of as a whole? Just because we are sentient doesn't mean we're capable of seeing the big picture, at least not now. One thing I can be certain of is that it is a BIG picture. It angers me to no end that I have only the capacity to understand that I am collossaly uninformed. It drives me so insane I can see how easy it would to just make **** up just to feel better, say, a religion (yeah I had a point in there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I look at it like this: A Christian bases his faith in a BOOK. A man made scripture. Why not believe in Egyptian hiroglyphics, man made scriptures made LONG before the Bible. Are they not both merely mans attempt to avoid eternal darkness after death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homuncul Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Real means gives impact on us. Unless such thing is confirmed, god is not real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I agree if their is no proof then god is not real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Kain Why not believe in Egyptian hiroglyphics, man made scriptures made LONG before the Bible. Are they not both merely mans attempt to avoid eternal darkness after death? I think monotheistic religions like christianity and islam do better jobs at answering questions and providing guidance (albeit common-sense guidance, often more relative to past cultures than present) than less complex religions or those with a polytheistic view. Even though it is clear that christianity is actually a polytheistic relgion that mascarades as a monotheistic one (the holy trinity... three people are really one, etc.). Christianity had thousands of years to develop and in looking at the bible, many early religious practices are obvious in the old testament that are revised by the new. If Egyptian religion did a better job of effectively answering the human need for belief, it would have dominated or been at least as relavent as christianity or islam. Buddism is one such ancient religion that has done a good job of this and I wouldn't be surprised if it is one that is growing. Buddism was, perhaps, ahead of it's time in answering the needs of humanity: spirituality, purpose, after-death questions, etc. Still, the concept of heaven -vs- hell is a powerful one in trying to maintain societal morals and values. It seems clear to me that, as stated previously, man created god, not the other way around. However, that's not to say that there is no supreme being or god-like entity. I just do not think it is as humanity has conceptualized... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by AAANROLD [b of proof that Jesus exists. [/b] only proof you need is the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 If he does we are all going to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by XERXES only proof you need is the Bible. A man made scripture that has been changed over the past 5 millenia is far from feasable proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Originally posted by XERXES only proof you need is the Bible. I read an interview with Elvis and Tupac in the National Enquirer.... What does this prove for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloseTheBlastDo Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 That the National Enquirer get all the best scoops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Originally posted by Mamba If he does we are all going to hell. then there is not much change to the life on earth sometimes.. .. the time will come when man(kind) will learn that what some call "god" isnt longer necessary to "lead" the weak human mind through life. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I agree if their is no proof then god is not real Theres no proof to me that theres a 1 million dollar bill. Prove it? You dont have 1, i dont have 1. If theres no proof, then its not real. From your view, if theres no proof of something, it doesnt exist. That can mean anything. I know theres a 1 million dollar bill (i think... imagine trying to cash one of those) but still.. i havnt seen one, theres no proof, its not real. You see, sounds sort of dumb right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.