Prime Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Originally posted by Akshara Update Ok everybody... the latest news over at Ravenforums comes from an email Kathybates received yesterday... Now he doesn't list who this is from, but stated that it was a Raven official. Since KB has moved on to hosting another game, and from the levelheadedness of his recent posts, I personally have no reason to doubt the information. Very interesting. I can understand why he/she would give a name, since they are probably legally obligated not to discuss such things. Originally posted by Akshara So according to this, the patch is currently under development, but we shouldn't expect it until around the year's end. Year's end? It may be too late by then to undo the damage done by the browser issue. But then again, many people may come back to at least give JA a try again. As for it taking four months for a patch, there may be several possible reasons: 1. They a very weary about quick patches after JO, and want things to settle a bit more before they decide on certain changes. 2. Lucasarts has decreed that a patch is not to be released before then. 3. Some bug fixes are technically difficult enough to that it will take that long to iron them all out. 4. There is so many changes(gameplay or otherwise) that it will take that long to code and test them. 5. This information is wrong and we are right back to not knowing about a patch Originally posted by Akshara ps. don't shoot the messenger. Your days are numbered. Grrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Want to talk about interesting... So the admin over at Ravenforums deleted the thread with this information, along with several others. But believe me, it was really there at one point for several hours. I also had several of my own posts deleted. Not really liking the vibe over at ravenforums these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeekinz Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Hi, this is kathy bates...Im the one who's posted the Raven emails regarding the patch...they all are legit, and you will be seeing the patch early next year...Im not sure about SDK, but I have replied to them inquiring about it, lets hope it doesnt take two months to get a response!! In a related note, i just want to speak my opinion on how the official Raven forums are devoid of any true public spoken opinions...All our threads this morning were deleted or edited, all began very tactfully discussing the response from Raven re: the patch, all were locked immediately...finally they just banned me for proving them and WadeV wrong the whole time...very very sad, especially being the official Raven site...if you have any negative opinions, or even just a general question about the patch, do not bother going to raven's sites...they will delete, lock, and ban you with no reason necessary... Unfortunate about how much longer the patch will take, but at least now we know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Hey KB... So they're now saying over at Ravenforums that the email you received about the New Year release was fake. I told them that coming there to post a fake email seemed like extreme action even for you, and that the tone surrounding the post seemed genuine. Do you have any comment on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I don't visit those forums, so I don't know about what the deleted posts contain, but I can understand removal about patch information from developers, since they are most likely legally obligated not to discuss it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I can understand that as well... but that wasn't how the situation was presented - it was more of a personal thing against KB. Also, they have now publicly stated that the email posted was a fake... those are pretty strong words. I'd just like to get to the truth of the situation, and I'm just a little miffed that I've had several posts deleted or edited by the moderators over there which didn't contain any sensitve or inflammatory material at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeekinz Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 haha!! The email from Raven is legit...it's from someone other than Kenn Hoekstra this time, someone who I had never had correspondance with before and found his name and title in a manufacturing program we pay good $$ for at work that allows you to search companies for specific contacts, when I replied regarding the SDK release, I also asked if it is a prob posting their name and title, havn't gotten a reply yet...heh figures. Let them think it's a fake over at their "forums", let them keep deleting any threads regarding bugs, fixes, etc...I'm done over there, in fact I was done over there since about a week ago, but once I got the mail yesterday I thought it would be a good place to post, to both inform the players looking for info as well as to prove Wade he was wrong all along, that he kept trying to pass his speculation off as fact, and I wasn't buying it... Hopefully most of the gamers over there also frequent this site and will get word of the patch release date information. I can't think of ANY other reason they would delete all those posts except for the simple blatant fact that they were burned in many of their theories: Raven not being able to disclose info, that the patch was already complete, etc... There IS the possibility that there is a silence clause in Raven/LEC's contract, and maybe my new source wasn't aware of what they could/couldnt say. In that case, I could see a response by Raven or MAYBE a deletion, if it was deleted by a Raven official. But for the mod to say it was a fake is wrong, no matter what the reason...they are just doing everything in their power to save face. Which is ridiculous, because it isnt about proving who is right or wrong, but just to get the info out there so server owners can justify how long to keep a server rented/going, as well as to players who are having problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Originally posted by Akshara I'd just like to get to the truth of the situation, and I'm just a little miffed that I've had several posts deleted or edited by the moderators over there which didn't contain any sensitve or inflammatory material at all. Understandable. I can see them deleting "illegal" information, but not comments on non-inflammatory posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Ok, to be fair here... the following is the reply from Rickmus, an official Raven employee, regarding the situation at Ravenforums... I deleted the thread as it contained rumors and speculations, as well as it didn't offer anything that hasn't been said before. That post claiming it was an email from someone from Raven was a fake. I verified it with those in the know, and the info in that email is not accurate. -------------- Senior Programmer, Quake 4 Lead Programmer, Raven Software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmd Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 so basicly, the bottum line of this thread is....we know jack squawt about a patch, when it will be released, what the changes are, and even at one point we did, that could have been changed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eniaC Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Originally posted by Akshara Ok, to be fair here... the following is the reply from Rickmus, an official Raven employee, regarding the situation at Ravenforums... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I deleted the thread as it contained rumors and speculations, as well as it didn't offer anything that hasn't been said before. That post claiming it was an email from someone from Raven was a fake. I verified it with those in the know, and the info in that email is not accurate. -------------- Senior Programmer, Quake 4 Lead Programmer, Raven Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds like maybe the people "in the know" are stupid idiots that made a mistake and now there trying to cover there arse...or maybe not...either way...if thats how they run there business...so be it...thats there mistake not any of ours. You should post that full e-mail including name if there going to play childish games...then again I could be way off. CUSTOMER SASTISFACTION ALWAYS COMES FIRST ...no I'm just naive...right? eniaC *edited* sorry, I know this is off-topic of the actually thread, as that I had no facts to contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 uummmm... if its coming out in the new year (if thats true) then it probably because Xbox has it so you can play JA online, and they dont want the bug on XBOX because its impossible to patch it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 Go for it. As long as you don't go into the actual gameplay issues and such (WE KNOW ALREADY! DAMN IT!), I'm ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniKorn Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Those posts were locked for the following reason: - bashing on Raven just for the fun of it. Inform yourself first, find out who is responsible for the release of the patch, and then show your concern, instead of just bashing for the fun of it. - 2-3 posts a day about the patch. I know that on these forums the same thing gets posted over and over, stuff like that does not happen on the Raven Forums. I allowed one thread to give bug info. I edited all posts that contained bug information that is more of a preference than a bug, and yes Akshara I disagree on 1! item that you told me that was not a bug. All the other remarks you made were considered legitimate remarks on your part and were removed from the bug list. I don't think you have any reason to complain. - I did not know the mail was a fake. Therefor I contacted Raven and they handled it. Since the mail was a fake Kathy Bates was banned from the forums, since his/her contribution to the Raven Boards could be summarized as bashing and spreading false rumors about the release of a patch. - I only moderate on forums of people I respect. I've been on the Raven Boards for a few years now, and in all those years they have never let us down. But appearantly a lot of you forget that a publisher makes the decisions, and not the developer. If you would only take a look at this thread : http://www.map-center.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=25 then you would see that at Raven they do care about the community. If they don't give you information then there is a reason for that. So stop the bashing, it has no use and all it does is force me to click the close thread button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 The developers do make a decision to sign these sort of all encompassing contracts in the first place. If they sign away all their rights and then can't fulfil their ethical obligation to at least have a functional game or meet their statements to their customers, they are also at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickmus Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 The email or the contents of the email is not accurate, as I have confirmed that with internal people. Either show us who you received that email from, otherwise, quit spreading rumors. If you don't feel comfortable in revealing that person's name on the forums, then forward me the entire, entact email (with SMTP headers), so that I can follow up. In any event, the information is not accurate. rjohnson@ravensoft.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, I sure hope it isn't. A patch around New Years would totally miss the holiday buying season. Plus, wouldn't revealing the source (if it exists) get that individual in a lot of trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Yes, but it's a put-up-or-shut-up situation - it's inflamatory, derogatory, and stupid to bash on a developer. Raven's project workloads have quadrupled since I started following them (er... following info about them, not ... stalking ... or anything ...) - they ARE doing something right. I really doubt that it'd be til new years anyway. Also, 'I paid money to get software to get us a contact for Raven' - why not just go to the goddamn website, like everybody else who contacts Raven. Kenn has always been good about letting his people talk to the community - it's pretty much a policy, as I see it. And they've been good about it. And if you don't know how to get SMTP headers, just post here. I'll learn you a few things about it, n00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 IIRC, the first patch for JK2 took 3 months from the official release of the game. Not saying the exact same thing will happen for JA, but that would put it about December. That's just if it ends up the same, obviously the situation is different so who knows. So we all agree we DON'T know when the patch will come out (or even if it will), all because LA/Activision is holding the reins, much as Raven might want to release it. Then there's the Xbox release as others have mentioned. I would think the patch would come out in time for the Xbox release (since it can't realistically be patched) with the same fixes as that version will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Yeah but JKO didn't have the three major show-stopping issues that JKA has (the ingame browser; major slowdowns with dynamic glow; and force feedback causing slowdown and being on by default). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Ok, so what should LucasArts do, re-release the box cover with instructions saying "THIS GAME MAY BE SLOWED DOWN BY SETTINGS THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF" ??? I mean, how hard is it to turn off/on settings.. people do it all the time, obviously though, some people's computers just aren't meant to run some games. And for those that can, obviously some tweaking can easily be done, or that person shouldn't deserve that computer if turning off Force feedback or other features are such strenuous tasks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Andy867 Ok, so what should LucasArts do, re-release the box cover with instructions saying "THIS GAME MAY BE SLOWED DOWN BY SETTINGS THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF" ??? I mean, how hard is it to turn off/on settings.. When it comes to the jk2 community, if it's not a /thedestroyer or /helpusob1 command, they are pretty much clueless as a whole. I point to the g_saberDamagescale command that was present in JK2 yet weak sabers were the biggest complaint... sorry if this sounds harsh, but prior to jk2 I was active in the quake 3 scene, and post jk2 I'm mainly playing rtcw: et, given that all three of these games use the same engine, it's quite obvious from what I have observed over the last 3 years (for all 3 games), that the jk2 players don't seem to have the desire to learn and/or simple basic knowledge of game's console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 As a paying customer, you shouldn't have to expect to have to turn off settings on an above minimum spec machine to make up for the sloppy work of the developers. Both the force feedback and dynamic glow settings cause 20 fps drops each and my system is well above the minimum system requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Yeah but JKO didn't have the three major show-stopping issues that JKA has (the ingame browser; major slowdowns with dynamic glow; and force feedback causing slowdown and being on by default). Conceded. It (JK2) had several major gameplay exploits, but nothing as frustrating as the server browser incomplete listing bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 JO had 2 patches and an SDK within 2 months. We're nearing the 2 month mark right now, just 10 days away. Realistically, I have friends who have top end machines, and have the dynamic glow turned ON and it works fine. Are you certain you aren't just casualties in the video card war? Another thing, don't bitch about the spiffyness of the engine - it's top notch over most Q3 engine based implementations, excepting perhaps Wolfenstein: ET (which is a really damn good game). As a coder, I'm primarily concerned with the code - it may be possible that we'll not get any. The game industry is tanking right now, and the possibility that a developer may make new content that in effect neutralizes the developer's earning power is probably worrying more than a few publishers. At this point, the only 'for sure' mod SDK is for HL2 - and the combination of Valve getting burned PLUS the fact that Vivendi Universal's games division has been on and off the market for the last YEAR or TWO, combine to cast doubt on whether or not Valve will want to pursue encouraging custom content. So, the backlash of the gamer n00b turned modder m0r0n ensues - just look what we did with JK2's SDK - NOTHING OF NOTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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