Kain Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Seeing as how that whole fighting thread in the swamp got closed due to seriousness, I'm gonna start one up over here. Now let the moral postering commence once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 It's kinda hard to get going without one of those pacifists to post something for me to debate. But, suffice to say, fighting is right if it's for self-defense purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Fighting is right if it will make a point, 1 fight to stop 10? If a kid in school wont stop bullying the kids at school, he needs to get the crap beat out of him in order to learn... I've seen it happen first hand many times, works wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior It's kinda hard to get going without one of those pacifists to post something for me to debate. But, suffice to say, fighting is right if it's for self-defense purposes. If it is used reasonably and the context warrants it. Studies have shown that people tend to overestimate the amount of force required and things tend to escalate. I've got through most of my life without ever really having to fight. There are I think things worth fighting for, but a lot of people seem willing to fight over almost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 Well, lets use some topics to start a better intrest in the topic. A. Lets say you're a student in highschool, and have your share of friends. One day you see one of your girl friends get pushed by her boyfriend in a not so playful manner. Would it be okay to beat the guy down for your friend, or would you stay out of there business, and why would you do what you do? B. You're 16 in highschool, and some guy/girl keeps giving you crap for no reason. S/he does this the entire semester, and s/he does it infront of all of your friends, and s/he points out that you aren't doing anything to everyone whos around when you try to ignore him or walk away. One day you finally loose your temper and start insulting him back. Now he wants to fight, and to make it worse, your in the middle of a crowd so you can't just leave. What do you do? C. You go out drinking with some buddies(whether your legal age or not, I don't care)at a party. Some of the other party-mates are drunk and start messing with you or one of your friends. You haven't drank as much as everyone else and are sober. How do you respond and why? Okay people, pick a scenerio and debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 A. If I EVER saw a girl that's a friend of mine getting abused in any way, I would be there in an instant to defend her. There is no justification for hitting or pushing girls, and I would inform that guy that if he ever did it again he'd be answering to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 A. Lets say you're a student in highschool, and have your share of friends. One day you see one of your girl friends get pushed by her boyfriend in a not so playful manner. Would it be okay to beat the guy down for your friend, or would you stay out of there business, and why would you do what you do? I would step in and tell him to back off and lay off of her. What he does from there is his own business, but if he continues harassing my friend, I'll do what I can to stop him, even if it means physically subduing him until a teacher or principal can take over. B. You're 16 in highschool, and some guy/girl keeps giving you crap for no reason. S/he does this the entire semester, and s/he does it infront of all of your friends, and s/he points out that you aren't doing anything to everyone whos around when you try to ignore him or walk away. One day you finally loose your temper and start insulting him back. Now he wants to fight, and to make it worse, your in the middle of a crowd so you can't just leave. What do you do? Knock em out. Not only will it keep this person from messing with you again, but it also shows everyone else that you're not someone to be messed with. This is important in high school. Weakness is like blood in the water. Once other bullys see it, they'll swarm over you. Cant let that happen. C. You go out drinking with some buddies(whether your legal age or not, I don't care)at a party. Some of the other party-mates are drunk and start messing with you or one of your friends. You haven't drank as much as everyone else and are sober. How do you respond and why? Same as example A. Tell them to back off and leave us alone, and that we don't want any trouble. Where they take it from there is up to them. If they get physical, I'll fight as much as is needed for the situation to be defused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Ever get that feeling where you thought you could have done more but didn't know what or how to? (If not, well than, uh, never mind. ) That's the feeling I get with fighting. I admit that I will definitely defend myself and make a stand when aggressively challenged against. Nevertheless, I always get his feeling that something more could have been done to prevent conflict. My thoughts turn to countless events in history where fighting occured yet didn't resolve many important issues. The Civil War, WWII, Iraq, etc. Maybe I'm thinking too large, or asking too much from human beings. Perhaps something from our origins "programs" us so we cannot ever learn to avoid conflict. Until we find a way that works to avoid/pacify our often violent yet normal human reactions, then by all means, stick up for yourself and those important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 Okay, I want to straighten out the meaning of this topic. This isn't a debate on wars, its about fist fights between 2 people. Just a lil clarification. Debate on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 There doesn't seem to be much of a debate here, everyone agrees that we should defend ourselves and our friends. Of course, every method/action to avoid conflict should be used before getting physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Kain Okay, I want to straighten out the meaning of this topic. This isn't a debate on wars, its about fist fights between 2 people. Just a lil clarification. Debate on. The core motives and emotions are still similiar between the two incidents, and they both yield predictable results - somebody getting hurt. I just feel that perhaps, just maybe, something can be done to break out of this cycle of violence. Otherwise, I agree with all of you on all of your points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid_Allanon Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 A. Lets say you're a student in highschool, and have your share of friends. One day you see one of your girl friends get pushed by her boyfriend in a not so playful manner. Would it be okay to beat the guy down for your friend, or would you stay out of there business, and why would you do what you do? Much as I would like to beat that guy for pushing my girl friend, I do not have the right to do so. Yes, the boyfriend is wrong, but what can I do? B. You're 16 in highschool, and some guy/girl keeps giving you crap for no reason. S/he does this the entire semester, and s/he does it infront of all of your friends, and s/he points out that you aren't doing anything to everyone whos around when you try to ignore him or walk away. One day you finally loose your temper and start insulting him back. Now he wants to fight, and to make it worse, your in the middle of a crowd so you can't just leave. What do you do? I'll fight. S/he's been giving me loads of crap and it's time to stop that. C. You go out drinking with some buddies(whether your legal age or not, I don't care)at a party. Some of the other party-mates are drunk and start messing with you or one of your friends. You haven't drank as much as everyone else and are sober. How do you respond and why? Wait for a while and see if things get serious. If push comes to shove, I'll push one guy and say something like 'look here, mate, don't mess with my friends'. If that doesn't fazzle him, we'll fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Kain A. Lets say you're a student in highschool, and have your share of friends. One day you see one of your girl friends get pushed by her boyfriend in a not so playful manner. Would it be okay to beat the guy down for your friend, or would you stay out of there business, and why would you do what you do? 1. maybe it was some kind of accident? 2. it's up to the girl to cut him off then. 3. wouldnt it be better to speak to that guy than beat him? B. You're 16 in highschool, and some guy/girl keeps giving you crap for no reason. S/he does this the entire semester, and s/he does it infront of all of your friends, and s/he points out that you aren't doing anything to everyone whos around when you try to ignore him or walk away. One day you finally loose your temper and start insulting him back. Now he wants to fight, and to make it worse, your in the middle of a crowd so you can't just leave. What do you do? 1. ignore that guy/girl. it's just words. freedom of speech.. y'know. 2. leave him/her alone anyways. what do i prove if i fight? and who says i cant leave the middle of a crowd just because there is some gibberish talking freak? C. You go out drinking with some buddies(whether your legal age or not, I don't care)at a party. Some of the other party-mates are drunk and start messing with you or one of your friends. You haven't drank as much as everyone else and are sober. How do you respond and why? (1. keep away from such parties.) 2. keep calm, de-escalate. DO NOT DISCUSS. discussion with drunken people is useless anyways. 3. keep distance, but donot ignore the person. 4. DONT insult. 5. try to not fight back. try to dodge. drunken people arent very good fighters. 6. party + security guys = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homuncul Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 A. Lets say you're a student in highschool, and have your share of friends. One day you see one of your girl friends get pushed by her boyfriend in a not so playful manner. Would it be okay to beat the guy down for your friend, or would you stay out of there business, and why would you do what you do? I'd come up to the girl and calmly asked her if she's needing help. If she says no, I'd let her on her own. If she'd approve, I'll stand to wait for his reaction. I bet his reaction would be to strike me for interrupting, then I'll be only defending myself. Provocation, not the actual attack from my side. B. You're 16 in highschool, and some guy/girl keeps giving you crap for no reason. S/he does this the entire semester, and s/he does it infront of all of your friends, and s/he points out that you aren't doing anything to everyone whos around when you try to ignore him or walk away. One day you finally loose your temper and start insulting him back. Now he wants to fight, and to make it worse, your in the middle of a crowd so you can't just leave. What do you do? So I lost my temper... s**t happens. I'll make my stand only in defending myself, not attacking in any case. C. You go out drinking with some buddies(whether your legal age or not, I don't care)at a party. Some of the other party-mates are drunk and start messing with you or one of your friends. You haven't drank as much as everyone else and are sober. How do you respond and why? So I'm drunk ... such a mistake. I'll trust my feelings and again will only defend myself, not attack. I have a few tricky things in dealing with drunks, efficient and quite harmless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylilin Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 There is no justification for hitting or pushing girls Pfft...Theres a reason to hit anyone...just don't do it. There's a reason to push an old man down a flight of steps....just don't do it. Growing up on the streets of New York, I've seen more that my fair share of fights, as well as participated in a few as well. There are reasons to fight. The problem is, a simple fight can escalate immensely. It can go from fists, to bats, to knives, then guns, and that is when people die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Allanon Much as I would like to beat that guy for pushing my girl friend, I do not have the right to do so. Yes, the boyfriend is wrong, but what can I do? You can stand up for your friends. You can approach the guy and tell him to never do that again. Just ignoring it will just let it continue on. 2. it's up to the girl to cut him off then. If only it were that simple. Most abusive relationships don't really end. I dont know why, but the girls are attached and cannot get themselves to leave. They need help. Yes. It would be better to talk to him. I say approach him and tell him that he better never do that again. And if he does, then you come down on him hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 First - despite the fact that I have managed to seriously tick some people off, I've never been in an actual fist-fight. The biggest thing that comes to mind was one time in high school when I had stuck up for a girl that was being harrassed - not so much sexually as just verbally and things like water over the head on 30 degree days (F, that is) - and the guy who had done it found me in the locker room after practice and started trying to push me around. I just stood up to him and didn't show any intimidation at all - despite the fact that I was quite scared, as he could have beat the living daylights out of me with very little effort. What I have found is that most bullies really don't want a fight. Even though they might win, they don't want to take any damage; they just want to push you around as far as they can. You stand up to them, and they'll usually back off. If they don't - then you fight them, no matter the cost. Scenario 1: you step in and ask her if she needs help - and you let the guy know she'll be getting it either way if he keeps it up with the look on your face. 2: If they actually swing, I'm laying into them with a vengeance. Until then, I'm on my toes and ready but not provoking anything. 3: Verbalize your intent and demonstrate just enough physicality that they get the message - but don't start swinging. If they want a fight, just give them enough to keep them out of your face. Overall, I find that just turning the other cheek to most harrassment gets you out of most trouble. Case in point - I've managed it just fine, and no one respects me any less for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 This debate isn't going anywhere because we don't have Tk-8252 here to argue with us............we must lure him over here somehow >_> <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber_Saber Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Quite frankly, I don't really think fighting is called for unless in very extreme cases. Situation 1: Talk to the girl in private, to see if she wants help. Situation 2: I had a situation like this in middle school. The crowd just closed up, and wouldn't let me out. If I had gotten out of there, I would have hurt even more people. So I beat the snot out of the twerp. The crowd opened up pretty quick. Situation 3: Just had a situation like this just the other day. I just pulled my friend away, left the person who was being insulting behind. As they were rather drunk, they tripped over an obstacle on the floor and didn't get up again. (Actually, it was the couch. Who moved it there?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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