Should there be Naval Units in SWGB2?

[Darth Windu]

Actually Mastern, it does take away from the SW universe because we have never seen Naval combat, intergalactic naval combat doesnt make sense, and we have seen a total of three naval units in 5 films.

[MasterN64]

How does it take away from the SW univrese? Just cause we didn't see it the movies doesn't mean we can't have it in a game. There is a lot in this game that isn't in the movies. Such as...

 

Confederacy/gungan/Republic fighters.

Naval Combat

Some Mechs

Most Bombers

etc.

 

Course without all this the game would be small and well, dull. AND think of all the other SW games that have EU stuff in 'em.

(Just to let ya know, KOTOR is 100% EU and it was one of the best-selling games that year.)

[lukeiamyourdad]

There's a huge difference between KotOR and SWGB2. First off, KotOR can be totally EU since it's 4000 yrs before the rise of the Empire. Second, we are making a game centered around the movies so the movies should come first. Have we seen naval combat in Star Wars(The Clone Wars cartoon is not cannon and anyway there's not enough in there to make naval combat important)? No.

 

Finally, is naval combat necessary? No. We can do just fine without it.

[MasterN64]

If there is no naval combat, i don't see the point of even having water. Therefore, all the maps in SWGB II will be land maps. Doesn't seem so bad does it? But, of course, some planets are centered on water, such as Naboo. And if your civilization is living around water, you would think that they would develop some kind naval units. In the first SWGB I think LA thought just to make it even, and that naval combat is a part of war, strategy, and a little star wars, they put naval for all. Did they make it even for all? No. Thats where the strategy part comes in. You use your strongest units against what they are good at killing (Not much strategy in there, but in this game, there are more techniques) Naval combat is not before or aftr the movies. Its filling in the gaps of the movies that you didn't see beforehand. And who knows? There may be naval combat in Ep III.

[Admiral Vostok]

Mastern, obviously you've never played WarCraft III or C&C:Generals. Neither have naval combat but they still have plenty of water.

 

Until naval combat is in the movies, it should not be in a game.

 

The reason naval combat was in SWGB1 is because it was just a professional mod for AoC, which had naval combat in it. But despite the inclusion of naval combat in SWGB, it isn't really used all that often. When combined with the fact we just have no evidence naval combat even exists, it means there should be no naval combat in a Star Wars RTS.

 

 

 

 

 

And EU sucks.

[Darth Windu]

And if your civilization is living around water, you would think that they would develop some kind naval units.

 

That's all good and well, but in my template the civ's are-

- Confederacy

- Empire

- Rebellion

- Republic

 

all of which are large galactic powers, so why would any of them need or want naval units when you have more capable air and ground units?

[MasterN64]

Well, if thre was water where someone was fighting, and the enemy didn't have a navy, it be kinda obvious how you would do some things. (Cruisers would pwn) It would give a great advantage. (Turrrets can't reach if the cruisers are firing at the turrets themselves =P) this brings back a memory of mine...

 

Some guy was the Galactic Empire and I was Gungans (Not as bad as some guys think). We were playing a RM. He thought navy sucked and all that. I made 4 hvy cruisers and i took down so many forts it was extrememly funny!! I pwned him.

 

You don't need hvy cruisers, regualar cruisers still pach a punch. However, I do agree that frigates and all that are just a form of protection for cruisers. And I guess they can take out a shipyard if ya had enough destroyers.

[Majin Boba Fett]

navy is good.

[Admiral Vostok]

Originally posted by mastern64

Well, if thre was water where someone was fighting, and the enemy didn't have a navy, it be kinda obvious how you would do some things.

Yes it would be obvious. Send in your Air Force and sink their ships. If fighters can take out a Death Star, I'm sure they can handle a boat.

[lukeiamyourdad]

mastern- You're still thinking in SWGB1 terms. Try to think SWGB2.

[MasterN64]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

Yes it would be obvious. Send in your Air Force and sink their ships. If fighters can take out a Death Star, I'm sure they can handle a boat.

 

Yes but anti-air boats would be annoying for fighters wouldn't they?

 

We need to add to SWGB2 and not take away stuff that was in the first and make a new game outta it. We need EP. III stuff in it, and we need to carry over all the stuff that was in the first.

[Admiral Vostok]

Yes but anti-air boats would be annoying for fighters wouldn't they?

No moreso than the defense guns on the Death Star.

 

As for taking things away from SWGB, think of this: WarCraft II had naval combat, StarCraft and WarCraft III did not. Red Alert 2 had naval combat, C&C:Generals did not. There is a pattern, and if the two biggest RTS makers in the industry feel naval combat isn't a good enough element to include, why should LucasArts feel differently?

[Compa_Mighty]

No water units. Star Wars is so aquatic warfare-less that the Imperial Starfleet is called Imperial Navy, implying there's almost nothing they do on water.

 

 

Why would they?, they have fighters.

[MasterN64]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

No moreso than the defense guns on the Death Star.

 

As for taking things away from SWGB, think of this: WarCraft II had naval combat, StarCraft and WarCraft III did not. Red Alert 2 had naval combat, C&C:Generals did not. There is a pattern, and if the two biggest RTS makers in the industry feel naval combat isn't a good enough element to include, why should LucasArts feel differently?

 

Yes, but that nuisance wasn't as bad. At least the fighters in the movies could make manuvers.

 

Why should LucasArts be the same as everyone else?

[Admiral Vostok]

They shouldn't be the same as everyone else. Ensemble, what I would call the third biggest RTS company, has always included naval combat and probably always will. What LucasArts games should be the same as is the LucasFilm movies. As such naval combat should not exist.

[lukeiamyourdad]

ES is different. Their Age serie requires them to add naval combat. It is necessary for the realism.

 

Here, it isn't so.

[FroZticles]

Naval combat does exist in the SW universe. It will reduce maps I quite like water maps like seperate islands and water combat. I can live without it but it might be nice more is better than less IMO.

[lukeiamyourdad]

The think is we don't have a lot of material to build on. We only see a few ships in the whole SW universe. Besides, naval combat will have to be handled in an odd way for a sci-fi game.

[Admiral Vostok]

Why do you say naval combat does exist in Star Wars, Froz?

[FroZticles]

Naval combat does exist maybe not so much in the movies but it is in the storyline. SW games, cartoons and EU all have naval combat. SW does not stop at the movies, all EU goes through Lucas Licensing and is approved by his company so I accept it into the SW universe.

 

Vostok just admit with every passing game they make Purists are a dying race.

[Darth Windu]

Actually Froz, Vostok is right. Ships are being increasingly ignored by RTS creators because they are so very limited in their uses. In addition to this, there are no combat naval vessels seen in SW, with about 3 total ships in the saga. I also dont recall ever coming across a combat naval ship in any of the books i've read, which is about 30.

 

You also have to realise that naval combat is unrealistic in the SW universe due to the nature of their weapons, such as the heavy use of aircraft/spacecraft. All naval units do is restrict mobility, and by their nature would have to be large, crew-intensive and expensive, so why would you want to build a navy, especially considering the civ's we will be playing as do planet-hopping campaigns?

[Admiral Vostok]

The fact that you are not counted amongst the number of loyal Purists hardly means we're a dying race.

 

Expanding on what Windu said, it is not only the weakness that using dedicated naval units imposes that makes their use in Star Wars unlikely, but the fact that water-based combat can be performed by units we know of already. Here's some examples off the top of my head:

 

We know Droids are water-proof since we've seen R2-D2 fall into the Dagobah swamp. Therefore, Battle Droids could quite feasibly walk underwater, much like the cursed Pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean. This could also extend to Droid Starfighters.

 

The speed at which the MTTs could move through swamp indicates to me that hover mechanisms can still work on water. As such, all hover vehicles could feasibly fight on a large body of water.

[MasterN64]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

The fact that you are not counted amongst the number of loyal Purists hardly means we're a dying race.

 

Expanding on what Windu said, it is not only the weakness that using dedicated naval units imposes that makes their use in Star Wars unlikely, but the fact that water-based combat can be performed by units we know of already. Here's some examples off the top of my head:

 

We know Droids are water-proof since we've seen R2-D2 fall into the Dagobah swamp. Therefore, Battle Droids could quite feasibly walk underwater, much like the cursed Pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean. This could also extend to Droid Starfighters.

 

The speed at which the MTTs could move through swamp indicates to me that hover mechanisms can still work on water. As such, all hover vehicles could feasibly fight on a large body of water.

 

However that is not in the movies. besides, how do you7 know that the hover systems work the same as they do on land? Also, how do you know blaster fire is the same under water?

[FroZticles]

I already stated we did not see much naval combat in the movies.

 

Battle droids can fight underwater they ride these half stap/swoop bike things.

 

We also know that droids investigated the gungan swamps cause of the rumors. Also states more underwater combat.

[saberhagen]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

Therefore, Battle Droids could quite feasibly walk underwater, much like the cursed Pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean. This could also extend to Droid Starfighters.

 

Would they have to shout "Arrrrrrr!" in a fake Devon accent?