Mike Windu Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Aye, unquestioning faith is helpful in Christianity. See, reelguy, there's a difference between believing, and stating as a fact. I believe in God. No evidence that he exists, but I still believe in him. Right now, it sounds alot like I'm the same person as you. But there is one difference. I don't take my beliefs for fact. I don't impose them on others. For example(and this is highly exaggerated): Hey, that's a Buddhist! You know you're gonna burn for eternity in a flaming hellhole if you don't convert to Christianity?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by Breton Quite the turn from a Moore-bashing thread to a thread 'bout religion, eh? lol, u should check out the rest of the battlefront forums. every thread in the Sliced Tauntaun turns out to be a religious debate. Even a book recommneding thread was turnign there. quite humorous. EDIT- and skin, this is basically just a debate about fact vs. nonfact. U have presented no fact, either. You are faltering, now u are just throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks. I cant rpove my religion, you cant disprove it. Its all about faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by Mike Windu Aye, unquestioning faith is helpful in Christianity. See, reelguy, there's a difference between believing, and stating as a fact. I believe in God. No evidence that he exists, but I still believe in him. Right now, it sounds alot like I'm the same person as you. But there is one difference. I don't take my beliefs for fact. I don't impose them on others. For example(and this is highly exaggerated): Hey, that's a Buddhist! You know you're gonna burn for eternity in a flaming hellhole if you don't convert to Christianity?! unless Buddhists have been taught about Jesus and dont accept it ,they dont go to Hell .i never was imposing them on anyone ,i was just sick of all of the rest of everybody ,not you ,telling me crap like skin walker said about my religion. Please, lets all attempt to post more than you quote out of courtesy, particularly if the quoted post is on the same page. ---SkinWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn and skin, this is basically just a debate about fact vs. nonfact. U have presented no fact, either. I've presented plenty of facts. Indeed, I can offer citations to them if you are interested. Of all the things I've mentioned, point out the top three that you believe to be non-factual. Originally posted by yaebginn You are faltering, now u are just throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks. I cant rpove my religion, you cant disprove it. Its all about faith. But when the fit hits the shan instead of the wall, you can't disprove the invisible dragon that resides in my garage either. Indeed, I would say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Yet the only evidence provided for christian superstition is circular and anecdotal. Nothing extraordinary. Nothing even as ordinary as a fingerprint or a dna sample, actually. And reelguy, I was happy to avoid discrediting the christian religion, but the fact that it was used to justify every debateable topic in this thread from Michael Moore to same-sex marriage to pornography is why I spoke out against it. I don't start threads like "reasons why christianity is bull." Yet you started one called Why dont yu think God is real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 for starters, he just wanted a feel of why people didnt belive. your thread on why it is crap would be invalid, his siad why do you not tihnk its real. and you have presenting spec. by others. not fact. and yes I can disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by SkinWalker And reelguy, I was happy to avoid discrediting the christian religion, but the fact that it was used to justify every debateable topic in this thread from Michael Moore to same-sex marriage to pornography is why I spoke out against it. I don't start threads like "reasons why christianity is bull." Yet you started one called Why dont yu think God is real? i use my religion as facts ,because my religion is my facts . everything i do is based on my religion ,every decision i make is based on my religion ,other than everyday things . i would even vote on religious principles also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by reelguy227 i use my religion as facts ,because my religion is my facts . everything i do is based on my religion ,every decision i make is based on my religion ,other than everyday things . i would even vote on religious principles also. From your persepective, they may be considered facts, but that does not neccessarily mean they are accepted as fact by others. from dictionary.com fact n. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case. Facts are something that can be proven to exist, whether by the scientific method (as Skinwalker stated), or by other means, and, if proven true through these method(s), then generally universally accepted as fact. Just because you use your religion as your reality does not mean that it is a fact or reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 thats not what i was implying ,i was just saying that my religion is MY facts ,cue in on the word my ,i wasnt saying they had to be everyone elses facts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 They can be taken as your facts, I'm not saying they aren't. But don't impose it on others is the point I'm getting at, whether you have done it or not, others don't take it well when you tell them they're gonna burn in a flaming pit of demons and brimstone for eternity unless they convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn your thread on why it is crap would be invalid, Actually I used the word "bull" not "crap," but I would have to disagree on it being invalid. I could easily validate "why christianity is bull." I like the word baloney better, since It better conveys what I meant. But I'm not interested in a thread like that, since it would be trite and has actually been done in the past. Originally posted by yaebginn and yes I can disprove it [the purple dragon in my garage]. You're welcome to try. But I get to use the same arguments used against those that attempt to disprove a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 ok, I come to ur house, and spray around ur garage. if there is a dragon, I'd see his outline with the water that has collected on him. Done and done. you cant disprove God by coming to my house. and it would be invalid, cause he asked why people didnt think God is real. To make ur thread valid, u could say, why do you think God is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 oh, but see, the dragon is aware of your plan, thus it decided to use it's wonderous power to mask it's outlining. also, the dragon can't be seen unless you accept it, in your heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 then I swing the stick around the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 I see that Insanesith has met my dragon. She's incorporeal as well as invisible, so spraying with paint or water will not stick. You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints. "Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air." Then you suggest an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire. "Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless." And so on. Every phyiscal test you can propose I can counter. Now dragons are real. There have been innumberable assertions to this by many cultures the world over. The Japanese & Chinese have dragons. The British have them. The European mainlanders. In ancient Anatolia and Greece, dragons were said to guard the gold in the Scathyian mountains. Much, much epigraphical and artifactual record exists to prove dragons in human history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 ok, then I'd say, ' but you live in an apartment, u dont even have a garage' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Nope. Got a house and a garage. I own both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 it says so on the sacred forums of old. You just have to believe, and then you shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith You just have to believe, and then you shall see. same with God ,insane sith ,same with God . believe and you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 You have to beleive it's real, and I mean really beleive, as if you had been brainwashed, but it's not brainwash because you chose to beleive... And I have proof it's real... you know all those unexplained spontaneous combustion cases ? That's what happen if you don't beleive in him... he bunrs you to dust ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn prove it. ....You do realize the trap you just walked yourself right into? That is the exact thing we've been saying to you about God, and you've been unable to do, and now you see exactly where we're coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Just to not let the last half dozen or so posts go on to exist as mere spam, let me tie it all in. The belief engine of humans is real. We are easily biased and influanced by the events in our lives, which often results in magical thinking. I'm not talking about David Copperfield or "the craft," though these kinds of "magic" are included. What I'm referring to is the ability of humans to recognize patterns and intuit outcomes based on these patterns. This is the reason why we are good at driving at high-speeds on highways, because we can anticipate the behavior of others or our own vehicle's limitations. We can brake for traffic lights or small animals, anticipate lane changes of other drivers, etc. But the problem with having this ability to recognize patterns and correlate what we see into inferred behavior is that it affects our belief engines. Star hitters for baseball teams will create entire daily routines in which they engage in sympathetic magic or imatative magic. That is, they create rituals and taboos to maintain winning streaks and break losing ones. Wearing a favorite shirt, eating a particular food, etc. I know people that panic about having a black cat cross their path, or who actually throw salt over their shoulder. These superstitions and many, many others are relatively harmless, even entertaining or fun. Crossing one's fingers before asking a girl/guy for their phone number, for instance. But recognizing that these are generally silly superstitions and beliefs is easy enough to most people. The problem is that human behavior such as this carries over to other areas of life. Politics, education, etc. Many who follow politics or consider themselves aligned with a single political party are very guilty of magical thinking. I'm not excluding the liberal side of politics, either. I think that they are less guilty of magical thinking than the conservative end, but they certainly have their share of nutters. So what's the point? The point is this: critical thinking is rare trait among humans. Most people, perhaps even all, are biased in some way or another. The trick is to eliminate the bias as much as possible. To do so, critical thinking must be learned. Being able to think critically doesn't mean giving up on religion or spiritual things either. It simply means that questions are asked, particularly if its with regard to something you already believe to be true. My Purple Dragon Does it exist? The answer can never be known or proven true or untrue. The nature of my purple dragon is such that it is unbounded by the natural laws of science, and is therefore untestable. So we can say that, while it's possible a purple dragon lives in my garage, the dragon can be ignored with regard to my day to day life. I can respect it, talk to it, call it a friend. But I can't depend on it to provide my meals and pay my bills. That type of action has to come from the dragon within. Does a god exist? The answer can never be proven true or untrue. It is untestable. I can talk to god, respect god, and call god a friend. But god will not put meals on my table or pay my bills... that has to come from within. If a god acts through me, so be it. If not... then I shall live my life in the way I feel fit regardless. But I won't allow the worry of pleasing or displeasing a god come between me and my inner dragon, my inner god. If their exists a god, a supreme being that provides life to all, then surely she will expect me to listen to the voice of reason she put inside me. Surely her design wasn't flawed to the point at which I cannot rise above my animal self and learn to think critically (which is a trait that exists not with any animal except man as far as we know). If a god doesn't exist, then I will rejoice at the end of my time in knowing that I lived my life well and with purpose. I will die knowing that I gave as much or more than I received. If I simply cease to exist in this world, then I do so with the last thought that my efforts provide others with an impedous to carry on, just as those that came before me did. After all, we are a society that has gone from using stone tools to super computers in a mere few thousand years. I will be satisfied in knowing that my flesh and matter will go on to nourish the life around me: the grass, insects, and mammals that will benefit. I'm not so selfish that I need to know I'm still alive... my matter is forever, that is the law of science. It is a good day to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 go to http://www.moorewatch.com it's hilarious. there are some links on the far right. Yeah, the far right, alright. More like the extreme right... He was only in it so he could be called a war hero when he ran for congress, thne when he ran for senator, now president. Oh yeah, all part of his master plan to take over the US... Because Kerry is psychic and can see the future... Riight. [/stinging sarcasm] When did this crap get dropped into our ballgame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by .:CoupeS:. he bunrs you to dust ! God loves anyone ,even down to the mass murderers and the rapists ,marilyn manson ,or atheists ,He loves all and knows all ,Hes not going to burn yu to dust Coupe ,He loves you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Coupe was talking about Skinwalkers invisible dragon. That's why people spontaneously combust, the dragon was mad at them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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