A new thought for swgb2

[Darth Windu]

Viceroy - you've still missed the point. Please read carefully because i dont feel like expalining this for a third time. ALL LAND UNITS TURN INTO TRANSPORTS WHEN THEY ENTER MEDIUM/DEEP WATER, THEN REVERT BACK TO NORMAL UNITS WHEN THEY REACH LAND

 

Vostok - you never answered how bridges make sense with lava, but i would also be interested to know why you would want a bridge that would be useless on a lot of maps, such as islands maps with large distances between the islands. This would force people to use air transports, forcing the game to turn into an air-fest for lack of a better word. Finally, how long would these bridges be?

 

Luke - as i have already expalined, bridges are too micro-intensive, force a 'stop-start' gameplay style and are useless in a lot of areas.

[swphreak]

I hate how the units transform into Transports [in RoN]. That makes things too easy.

[Majin Boba Fett]

If an air transport is shot down the units should "jump" or parachute out. If they are in a sea transport and are shot, they should try either drown, float, or swim to shore. Of course this is a bit more complicated than it should have to be. I just dont like losing pummels in air transports:p

[DK_Viceroy]

Look windu this isn't Transformers Galactic Battlegrounds this is STar Wars Galactic Battlegrounds 2 we're talking about Star Wars units DON'T transform under any circumstances the farthest they do in that respect is locking and unlocking s-foils. Having units transfrom into transports is not realistic and not star warsy case closed now and forever. DON'T BRING THAT NONSENSICAL TRIPE UP AGAIN.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu, no-one likes the RoN transport style. Surely that says something to you. In fact, I challenge you to find any review of RoN where the magical transports idea is listed as a good feature. It just sucks.

 

As for bridges being micro-intensive, they are no more so than building any other building. If micro-intensive to you means "more micro than magical transforming transports" then I want a lot of micro in the game. The simplicity of RoN transports is an insult to any decent RTS gamer.

 

I don't see what's so hard to understand about lava crossings. The bridge goes over the lava and doesn't touch it. Isn't that obvious?

 

For larger bodies of water, yes, you will have to use air transports. So what? It's far more Star-Warsy than water transports anyway.

 

Just for fun, here's my all-time list of crappest RTS ideas:

1. WarCraft III's Upkeep.

2. Rise of Nations water transportation.

3. War of the Ring - the entire game.

[DK_Viceroy]

The only reason you mentioned war of the ring is because mentioned it in the forum game. The campaigns are good but that's about it.

[FroZticles]

Water transports are more Star Warsy than using bridge tactics to win a battle...

[Majin Boba Fett]

What is the basis of that assumption?

[Admiral Vostok]

Originally posted by FroZticles

Water transports are more Star Warsy than using bridge tactics to win a battle...

Well neither are really "Star-Warsy", but since one would involve completely made-up units while the other wouldn't, I'd say bridge crossings are the better choice.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I don't understand why some call this a "bridge tactic"? I don't think people realize that it's only for the crossing of large number of forces from one secure location to another.

 

You'll probably never see bridge flanking "tactics" since it's not really viable and a pretty hard thing to accomplish. If your enemy is on a seperate island, you'll have to transport units by air in to secure the location you want to build your bridge. Then, when bridge is done, large numbers of troops can cross.

[FroZticles]

Well I don't care if there made up units I have not seen a bridge being used in Star Wars yet. Water transport gungans anyone? So Vostok you should be backing the transports instead of the bridges which are more impure to the films.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok -

- no-one liked me merging the Federation and Confederacy

- no-one liked me giving Jedi to only the Republic

both are now part of your template, and others have come to agree with me on both issues.

 

As i said before, water transports are far better for gameplay and do away with useless micro.

 

Viceroy - Gameplay > Realism

[FroZticles]

I didn't have any objection to the merge of TF and Confed. Jedi only to Republic is ok but your motives are only for realism.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Windu, I seriously wouldn't brag on those two issues. There was a LOT of stuff we disagreed on and still do.

[Admiral Vostok]

Useless micro? Micro is not useless. If it is, why don't you just start the game by pressing a big green GO button and the AI plays the game completely for you?

 

Froz - The only water transport we've seen is a bongo, which can carry three guys. So not only is it not a military transport, but it belongs to the Gungans who aren't in either mine or Windu's design. As for bridges, we're not talking about them necessarily as the way to attack, just as a way to cross water. Certainly from that point of view there were several bridges throughout Theed that the Trade Federation used, as well as bridges between buildings on Coruscant and Bespin that could support any army.

 

I just don't think we need water transports. My design hasn't had them for a while. Realistically I think water transports should only be included if naval combat is also included - no game that I know of has water transports without naval combat.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I suppose the bridges are the response to the possibility of no naval combat. People have to realise that without two ways to cross water, island can easily be turned into invincible fortresses, surrounding it with AA defenses, not to mention a nice wing of fighter to help. How are we supposed to beat them without any way of making large amounts of troops cross?

[Darth Windu]

luke - i should also point that a lot of people didnt like me merging the Royal Naboo and Gungans but again, others have followed my lead.

 

Just one thing i would like to ask those opposing my auto-transport ability, have any of you played RoN?

[FroZticles]

Vostok those "because we have not seen them in the films so they should not be in the game" is definately not an argument that shows any meaning to me. Anyways since your basing everything off the movies there would not be water in your map line up. Naboo only has shallows and swamps unless you want them fighting in the ocean.

[Admiral Vostok]

Froz, don't turn the argument around. I said that in a direct response to this statement from you:

So Vostok you should be backing the transports instead of the bridges which are more impure to the films.

You claim it is more impure to have bridges than transports, I was showing how you were wrong. You really need to keep track of your own arguments, that's twice now I've had to quote you for the sole purpose of reminding you what you'd already said.

 

As for your water argument, perhaps you forget about Kamino.

 

Windu, I thought you knew I had played RoN. I'm sure I've mentioned it several times while opposing your love for it.

[FroZticles]

You argument about how the Trade Federation used bridges in battle is really a sad arugment. Your just grabbing at straws and trying to throw anything out there. You said so yourself that both ideas were not very Star Warsy.

 

Kamino its impossible to use bridges, there is no land to support because all the land is underwater. All the land close to the surface is taken already by the platforms. Another weak attempt to support your argument.

 

If they have air WHY do they want bridges. All that technology and you water to be crossed with a basic bridge. Air can do the job of a water transport and a bridge and then some.....

[DK_Viceroy]

What an INTERESTINg animal the purist is they contradict their own views with such rapidity and regularity it's some times too fast too keep up. they fight amongst themselves over such tiny things like dogs over a bone. and some in particular don't even what this to be a star wars game. I wouldn't be suprised if they put in a teleportation array in their semi generic unworkable pilfered idea frankenstein of a plan.he'll of course be putting in a heavy tank analuogue unit for the rebels and incredible air unit for the rebels giving everyone jedi and the republic sith and last but not least make the confederacy a major naval power.

 

Bridges would propably be most useful in briding short gaps and used for rapid brining ujp of forces. thier should propably be two types an unarmed early bridge with not much hitpoints for early game island hopping, and an expensive armed and sheilded armoured bridge for late games where lines of communication are important. The idea of island fortressess need to be addressed perhaps with some sort of Ion bomb or cannon to disable defnces for a short time.

 

Windu I don't support the idea of Gungans OR Naboo in the game except as toybox units, many others support them as minor civs which they should remain. everyone else is happy with four civs and a handful of minor. The trade federation joined the confederacy anyway so that is cannon with the truth with both the films and the acompninaing literature so that is cannon and as such will not get arguments from me.

 

forsticles haven't you thought about the actual platfroms themselves. if they can make platfroms like that then surely they can make a slab of material to bridge the two.

 

Bridging short distances often does not require any central support just one at each end and in the star wars universe they could obviuosly have the know how to strech them considerably further. of course they wouldn't have bridges from a city on the equator to one at their north pole.

 

Air transports need to be re-evaluated before we can argue about if they're going to be useful but from what I've heard from other people's comments about the air transport costing 7 pop it won't be feasible to attack an enemy. I'll read that semi generic behemoth when i have the time to be bored pantless.

[Admiral Vostok]

Froz (and Viceroy, since you're going on about Purists being contradicting) please read my posts again. Froz, you're completely changing the argument again and turning around what I'm saying. I'm saying neither are StarWarsy, but bridges make for better gameplay and are not as unStarWarsy as water transports.

 

There needs to be at least two ways to cross water. One is obviously by air. A game with no naval units should not have any water-faring units at all, thus why I think bridges to be the best solution.

 

I think there should certainly only be one type of bridge so bridging does not become the preferred tactic - air transportation should be used as a preferrence, with bridge building as a backup. Bridges should take a long time to build so enemies can stop you in the process.

 

 

 

Finally, as an off topic rant, I just want to address Viceroy's claim that the Federation joined the Confederacy: this is not canonical at all. In the films, Gunray says he's not signing the treaty until Senator Amidala has been assassinated. Since she's still alive and there were no Trade Federation units in the Battle of Geonosis, it's fair to assume the Federation has still not signed the treaty. This is why I always refer to them as "Separatists"; the Federation is definitely part of the Separatists but not definitely part of the Confederacy.

[FroZticles]

ROFL no Trade Fed units at the Battle of Geonosis

 

Battle Droid, Droideka.......

 

Count Dooku also said that the Trade Federation pledged there support. The Trade Federation also had no where else to turn.

 

The whole bridge thing is really stupid it probably won't even be in more than three maps which is really just a waste. Air is more than enough ways to cross water since it would be alot more stealthy and faster.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by FroZticles

The whole bridge thing is really stupid it probably won't even be in more than three maps which is really just a waste. Air is more than enough ways to cross water since it would be alot more stealthy and faster.

 

But a lot more micro and not as effective FOR LARGEAMOUNTS OF UNITS.

[FroZticles]

You could fit 20 units per transports I don't see how that is not effective. If you selecting your units and clicking on a transport large macro theres something wrong....