The Official Merged JK4 Speculation Thread!

[Kurgan]

So this is the third "future of the series" thread on this page. I thought about merging them all but they seem to have all gone off in different directions.

 

The future of the JK series...

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=132540

 

End of Series?

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=135157

 

People are anxious to hear about a sequel, but there's nothing we know that you don't...

[mile]

if you can merge all topics for another JK sequal, that will be great, so if anybody is having news about new sequal it would be easier to find out.

 

Just in any case please leave all these open for news to pop in....

 

thanks

 

respect

[mile]

it would be nice if we can get a kind of official replay what is the future of JK series, or is there not any, so we can concetrate on something else.........

[keshire]

it would be nice if we can get a kind of official replay what is the future of JK series, or is there not any, so we can concetrate on something else........

 

Not going to happen. Raven is busy with something else and Lucas is concentrating on several other games right now. So I doubt ANY thought has been given to the jedi Knight or Dark Forces series of games.

[Darth Lunatic]

I'd like to see a new company work on the next game in the series whatever it may be.

[GoreTex]

Well, no matter what happens as far as the making of a sequel, let's just hope that Lucas himself doesn't take an active role in the scripting of the game. And by that, of course, I mean the actual storyline, not coding.

 

If that were to happen, we may end up with a Hayden-Christiansen-type hero; a weak, love-story based plot; ridiculously annoying new species to try and add comic relief while distracting you from the overall atrocity which the SW movies themselves have become.

 

As much as I'd like to see a sequel to the series, I'd much rather have it end here, that to see it take the same path as the movies. And even if Lucas doesn't get involved firsthand, (not that I think he even would've, I was just thinking worst-case scenario), game designers/developers may take the game in the same dispicable direction that Lucas has taken the films. Less sophisticated and true to the original trilogy; with slap-happy, half-assed comic releif in an attempt to rope-in a 'younger' crowd for a fan-base. Instead of staying true to the form of the original movies, satisfy all the original fans, since they're all still ALIVE (it's not like the originals were made 70 years ago, and all the original fans are dead so there's no one left to keep happy)!!!

 

Bottom line: Star Wars games are going to share the same fate as Star Wars movies. They'll be made sugar-coated and generic until the entire SW universe is yesterday's news and fades away completely. Thanks a lot, Mr. Lucas. You screwed us all on the re-release of the Trilogy when you made Greedo shoot first. It was ALL downhill from there.

[Doomie]

whell, I just hope that there is somebody at LA to think about another sequal for this gameseries, now they all ower for KOTOR II, kotor I did not give me enough freedom during the fight, like in Jedi Knight I have complete freedom for my moves, that is why I like it little bit more, only if they can work on the story.

This gives me a brilliant idea! It's possible to import models from KotOR to JA, right? So a very dedicated mod team could actually make an Action-KotOR mod for JA. It'll take a lot of work, really lot's and lot's and lot's, woth all those textures and levels and models and different plot twists... It's near impossible, but it might just work. Too bad that by the time it'll be done, JA is considered to be ancient, most likely...

 

WHERE ARE THE CHEETOS?????!!!

 

 

PS: Roll to see if I'm getting drunk!

 

loved that one

[jedispy]

I think what inferno wants is the sick excuse for game play that we had in JK and MOTS. No thanks, not for me.

 

I do miss the force pull of JA. miss the days of just taking people's weapons. If you were a saber master, and in multiplayer, if some noob was just trying to shoot you down with whatever weapon was available, you could just pull it from his hands. I with JO/JA had two force pull options. One for weapon/item, one for everything else.

[acdcfanbill]

jk1 had pull. that said, i wouldnt mind seeing some of the awesome things about jk1 make their way into the next game, but i highly doubt that will be the case.

[Kurgan]

I wouldn't worry too much about George "meddling" in any of the games.

 

Lucas himself has only been in an advisor (rather than leadership) capacity at LucasArts for many many years.

 

Raven made the game basically as Star Wars fans, taking input from the Expanded Universe as they could find it, with oversight by LucasArts.

 

LucasArts is apparently the one that forced them to make all the bad guys use red lightsabers, and didn't let you use a red one in SP (unless you turned bad). I don't know if they were the ones that made lightsabers not work in a water (a rumored thing that was to happen in Episode I, but didn't, and then made irrelevant by AOTC and the Clone Wars cartoon anyway).

 

So it's the little details that get by.

 

I can't believe some of the stuff that gets by in the EU though. NJO novels saying that there is "no Dark or Light Side"? (JA even echoes that philosophy somewhat, as did MotS). Now I hear that was "corrected" in the NJO's later books, and the character before was just spouting nonesense. ; )

 

As long as the game is based on the UNIVERSE of the movies and not on the movies themselves there is a lot more freedom for them to create cool stuff. That's why the JK series and KOTOR are so popular. 'Cause they don't rely heavily on the movie plotline to be successful. they just REMIND us of the movies, so that's enough to get our attention.

[Kurgan]

JK/MotS... Sick excuse for gameplay... what???

 

Without those games we wouldn't have JK2 or JA to play or whine about.

 

Those games single handedly created the franchise (remember Dark Forces was little more than Star Wars Doom... a good SP FPS, but it had nothing to do with being a Jedi or any of the stuff we take for granted in the series now).

 

 

JK/MotS's saber play was pretty simplistic compared to what we have now, granted (though it was revolutionary at the time). But in all other respects, the gameplay was up to par, and in fact is faster than JA/JK2 gameplay. It required split second reaction time to be good at, and just as much force and gun action as we have now.

 

But the Force was much more fine tuned than it is now. Now you just slap a button and whatever is nearby flies towards you. In JK/MotS you could target individual items and pull them towards you (heck, you can't even pull objects except in JK2/JA SP, not MP). You could vary your Force Jump a little easier and you had to actually use caution with it and Force Speed, because you could get hurt or die if you did them wrong. Granted, we can explain some of the simplicity by saying that Kyle is just a better Jedi now, but c'mon.

 

Also SP & MP gameplay were the same in JK/MotS, so there was none of the crappy dull and frustrating gun levels like in JK2, and you could actually practice your fighting and force in SP and it would carry over into MP. And getting good at MP would make you a kick butt SP player too. In JK2/JA the games are completely different, so you have to re-learn and start from scratch basically.

 

While there's nothing really wrong with making SP & MP two different games, the SP gameplay is somewhat inferior (even if it is "prettier") in that you have less control (more random animations, more "floaty" feel, weaker guns) over your character. I just like the MP feel better. If they had made the SP feel as good, and then tossed in the extra eye candy (but not all the random animations) SP would have been a lot better. That problem just doesn't exist in JK/MotS, because your character moves and has the same powers and weaponry in both versions.

 

The improvements in the series have mainly been in the area of graphics and the addition of dedicated servers, etc. (all aspects of the Quake3 engine that are now taken for granted in FPS games). The Dedicated Servers thing was a conscious choice on the part of LucasArts at the time (1997-1998) because of a stupid policy decision (fear that dedicated servers would somehow compromise the Star Wars story and integrity by the fans "creating their own stories").

 

JK/MotS were kick ass fun, and still have some things that the modern games lack. Diss the old graphics all you want, but those games definately didn't suck!

 

In closing, I played JK/MotS for 3 1/2 years. I played JK2 for about 4 months, JA for about 7 months. Granted, I've had a more busy life in the last few years than when I was just getting out of high school when JK1 came out, but still. I didn't feel like an idiot playing an "inferior" game all that time, I really got to know it, and I still think the series has something to learn from its success.

[jedispy]

JK/MotS... Sick excuse for gameplay... what???

Maybe I exagerated a little. JK & MOTS did have great gameplay. I just think the gameplay of JO/JA is far better. I always thought that it is ridiculous to have two seperate jump options (normal jump + force jump) The way it's done in JO/JA is inifinitely better. You have far better control over your jump. Also, I hated in JK & MOTS how I could stand on a level floor, force jump, and then land on the exact same spot, and lose HP. JO/JA makes much more sense.

 

As I stated in my previous post, I prefer push and pull from MOTS better than JO/JA. I wish JO/JA had it. It was better because you had to release the button in order to pull. This allowed the player to select what he wanted to pull, vs. EVERYTHING in the room. If Obi Wan had used JO force pull in AOTS when he talked with Yoda in the Jedi Academy training room, when he force pulled the galaxy map marble, the poor little kids would have flown all over the room. JK & MOTS are far better in this.

 

Force lightening is pretty much the same in both games. No big whoop.

 

I miss force damage.

 

Force choke is better in JO/JA. However, one thing I would change is the levitation part of it. I wish levitation were a seperate force power, rather than a hybrid with choke. MP choke in JK & MOTS had to explain to the player that "YOU ARE IN A FORCE CHOKE HOLD".

 

Sense in JO/JA is far better than force seeing (sense) in JK & MOTS

 

SP speed in JO/JA....a BEAUTIFUL thing. I love how the action slows down, yet the player keeps as normal speed. Way cool. Multiplayer force speed is not as good.

 

Lightsaber combat in JO/JA is vastly superior to JK & MOTS. Not saying that JK & MOTS was bad, just not as good. I hope that if/when the DF2JK mod is finished, that we have lightsaber technique from JO/JK, not just a repro JK.

 

This conversation is good. You've inspired me to play MOTS, so I just installed it on my laptop.

 

I didn't feel like an idiot playing an "inferior" game all that time

 

Heck, I still like to play Super Star Wars, Super Empire Strikes Back, and Super Return of the Jedi for Super NES. What's my excuse?

[jangofett804]

Well, if there is another Jedi Knight Game (either jk3 or jk4, cuz im not sure if JA is really jk3?) it will probably use the Doom 3 graphics engine (Jk3/4 = Activision = Doom 3)

[Cavkov]

next JK game could be about Yuuzhan Vong?.. that would be cool.. defend the galaxy from those alien invaders!

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by Igor_Cavkov

next JK game could be about Yuuzhan Vong?.. that would be cool..

 

No it would not.

 

Originally posted by Igor_Cavkov

defend the galaxy from those alien invaders!

 

Horray! Let's just not waste another game in the Jedi Knight series with a plot like that.

[mile]

Now whell, LA is changing company every time they got some new game or sequal is their own deal, but I think is disadventigous, I think.

KOTOR is an exelant game, but still, after I finished it, I was left with the fealing that something was missing.

 

One thing is for shore I didn't like the combat. ( I still beleive that one good strike by light sabre is fare more enough (and lot, lot better) than fight that can go for hours or les where you have to chop it step by step your opponent, like in JK and it seems more real.

 

That is the result of diferent companies developing diferent games, is it?

On the other hand imagine all those games being developed by one company, whell in that case with me, I think it would be half and half effective, but yet......

 

respect

[jedispy]

Originally posted by Igor_Cavkov

next JK game could be about Yuuzhan Vong?.. that would be cool..

 

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with TK-8252. I always thought the Yuuzhan Vong were just downright silly. I would rather see a game based in a totally different timeline. The original trillogy timeline has been beaten to DEATH. I would rather see something from the prequel era, or perhaps from the KOTOR era. ANYTHING other than Kyle Katarn running around giving his best one-liners and slicing away at baddies.

 

Perhaps a Mace Windu storyline might work, but we could use Samuel L Jackson lines from other movies (pulp fiction, shaft, etc...) YEAH THAT WOULD BE COOL!! Oh!, And maybe he could fight the Yuuzhan Vong!. d00d t#@t would r0x0r!!!

 

</sarcasm>

[Prime]

Originally posted by TK-8252

No it would not.

Indeed.

[Prime]

Originally posted by [OwF]GoreTex

Bottom line: Star Wars games are going to share the same fate as Star Wars movies. They'll be made sugar-coated and generic until the entire SW universe is yesterday's news and fades away completely. Thanks a lot, Mr. Lucas. You screwed us all on the re-release of the Trilogy when you made Greedo shoot first. It was ALL downhill from there.

How has Lucas screwed you? He makes movies for God's sake. If you don't like them, don't watch them. No one is forcing you to buy what he's selling. You make it sound like he actually owes you something.

 

And I'm sure he would be thrilled if SW games suffer the same fate as the movies. i.e. money making machines.

[Spider AL]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with TK-8252. I always thought the Yuuzhan Vong were just downright silly

Agreed.

 

However, as long as the game consisted of me wielding a lightsabre and an arsenal of formidable telekenetic and psychic powers, I wouldn't care if I was defending the galaxy from... The Monty Python team.

 

ANYTHING other than Kyle Katarn running around giving his best one-liners and slicing away at baddies.

Ha! Kyle laughs at your four winds, laughs from his mountain.

 

And he owns you.

[jedispy]

Originally posted by Spider AL, the dang dirty ape

Ha! Kyle laughs at your four winds, laughs from his mountain.

 

And he owns you.

 

Oh yeah? Well I laugh as I Ha-do-ken him and his silly stupid mountain. (ref 8-bit theater)

 

I always thought it would be funny to have a Spaceballs mod. What do you guys think?

[Spider AL]

I always thought it would be funny to have a Spaceballs mod. What do you guys think?

I think:

[*]Kyle owns you, and your immediate family.

[*]And Ryu.

[*]And it might be funny. If it were done properly.

[/list=1]

[jedispy]

And Ryu.

 

Ah, but you forgot about Ken, and now it's too late, the mountain is gone, and Kyle is dead. I'm the mac-daddy and I gots Kyle's ride.

 

Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!

 

Kyle =

Spider AL =

Jedispy =

 

Anyway, you are right. Spaceballs would be a funny mod if done correctly.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by jedispy

Maybe I exagerated a little. JK & MOTS did have great gameplay. I just think the gameplay of JO/JA is far better. I always thought that it is ridiculous to have two seperate jump options (normal jump + force jump) The way it's done in JO/JA is inifinitely better.

 

I thought JK2's system was annoying and ludicrous at first (imagine doing it the JK way for 3 1/2 years then suddenly it's the same button... yikes!). But eventually I got used to it. Now it's not problem.

 

Since JA/JK2 have fewer force powers than MotS, I can just shuffle the buttons around (running out of buttons has always been a problem for the series).

 

You have far better control over your jump.

 

Since your jumps are "floaty" you do it on the fly. Previously you had to get a feel for the timing required for each type of jump and then do it that way. So the learning curve was higher. That doesn't mean it was BETTER that way, just different.

 

Also, I hated in JK & MOTS how I could stand on a level floor, force jump, and then land on the exact same spot, and lose HP. JO/JA makes much more sense.

 

Well, a human being flying 50 feet in the air and then landing hard on his feet is going to break something, so actually the old way made more sense. ; )

 

And speeding into a wall at 100 mph? Smash!

 

But then, these are FPS games, we don't need perfect realism. One could always argue that it's "the Force" cushioning you. ; )

 

As I stated in my previous post, I prefer push and pull from MOTS better than JO/JA. I wish JO/JA had it. It was better because you had to release the button in order to pull. This allowed the player to select what he wanted to pull, vs. EVERYTHING in the room. If Obi Wan had used JO force pull in AOTS when he talked with Yoda in the Jedi Academy training room, when he force pulled the galaxy map marble, the poor little kids would have flown all over the room. JK & MOTS are far better in this.

 

Agreed. While it's hilarious to pull an entire squad of stormtroopers (and their guns) at once in JK2, I do enjoy the fine-tuned nature of pull/push in JK/MotS. I also miss manipulating world objects in multiplayer! (I know some mods do this, but still, not as good as the old way).

 

 

Force lightening is pretty much the same in both games. No big whoop.

 

Yeah, although in MotS the "Chain Lighting" was targeted.

 

I miss force damage.

 

You mean Destruct? (aka "DESTRUCTION!!!!") That was awesome. ; )

 

Force choke is better in JO/JA. However, one thing I would change is the levitation part of it.

 

It's like a completely different thing really. Grip in the earlier games was more like the movies. Immobilize and choke to death. It could do HUGE damage. The only counters were absorb (still immobilized), hit the person (stops it instantly), get out of view (if they didn't have seeing on you could use Persuasion) or Protection nullified it completely. Now Grip is just a nice way to toss somebody off a ledge or into a trap.... except in the case of Siege where you can actually use it against non-Jedi with virtual impunity. ; )

 

 

I wish levitation were a seperate force power, rather than a hybrid with choke. MP choke in JK & MOTS had to explain to the player that "YOU ARE IN A FORCE CHOKE HOLD".

 

You are taking Force Grip Damage!

 

That rocked. Agreed about the seperate levitation power...

 

Sense in JO/JA is far better than force seeing (sense) in JK & MOTS

 

I disagree. While the SP version of "Force Sense" in JA is pretty neat (lets you see glowing items, weapons, and enemies color coded through walls), the other ones pretty much suck.

 

In JK/MotS Seeing actually LIGHTS UP THE ROOM, so you can see in the Dark. Since you have an overlay map you can get locations of players all over the map, not just in the immediate vicinity (and you get a better feel for where they are). You could also see mines with Level 4 (though I have to admit the brighter Trip mine beams are a nice thing). IIRC items at Level 4 just appeared on the map as white or yellow dots, so that part wasn't quite as good. JK/MotS's lighting was different, because light sources actually dispelled the darkness (JA comes close but it still feels fake somehow). Lightsaber, blaster shots, explosions, IR Goggles, Field Light, Force Seeing, etc.

 

SP speed in JO/JA....a BEAUTIFUL thing. I love how the action slows down, yet the player keeps as normal speed. Way cool. Multiplayer force speed is not as good.

 

There just isn't a practical way to "slow down the world but let me stay the same" in MP. Unless it's "force lag" where everybody else suddenly has to move slowly.

Raven made the choice basically to make SP & MP different games, so I guess they wanted to have it both ways. Again, JK2/JA just gave us "safe" speed, with a little more eye candy (the "mirror trail" behind you effect). Since the overall game speed is so much slower, I really felt like an old geezer when I first started playing JK2! I needed to Rage/Speed all the time to not feel like I was floating through a sea of molasses... ; )

 

Lightsaber combat in JO/JA is vastly superior to JK & MOTS. Not saying that JK & MOTS was bad, just not as good.

 

Basically JK/MotS was like playing with Medium Stance JK2 style, no saber locks and just the one "special move" (the double swing). It was definately simpler. While the new system seems meanly designed to be "showy" I agree with you that it's better.

 

I hope that if/when the DF2JK mod is finished, that we have lightsaber technique from JO/JK, not just a repro JK.

 

That's an interesting question. But I figure they'd just leave it the same. Like I said above, they could give you the "double swing" as a kind of special move and then just give you one stance. But you could always cheat to get the usual tricks. ; )

 

This conversation is good. You've inspired me to play MOTS, so I just installed it on my laptop.

 

I'd be so lucky.... ; )

 

SW games are fun man, enjoy!

 

Whoa...*checks time* guys, remind me to not make long nostalgic posts really early in the morning. ; p *forgive the typos*

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by jedispy:

 

the mountain is gone, and Kyle is dead.

No he isn't you lose kthxbai!!!111

 

Originally posted by Kurgan:

 

I needed to Rage/Speed all the time to not feel like I was floating through a sea of molasses...

I liked JK's control and force system, in that to avoid the damage of landing after a jump or running into a wall with speed on, you had to be good at controlling your char at a high velocity. This required skillzorz, therefore. I remember FF BGJ... my gosh, that was a game... So fast, like speedfreak cats fighting... It was exhilerating. And Jump was faster and more remeniscent of Luke's escape from the carbon freezing pit. It could be used to surprise enemies more than the JO/JA jump.

 

So yes, I think JO and JA would have been slightly more fun if they'd been faster and more unforgiving.

 

But naturally, it's like comparing playboy bunnies. They're all great!