The Official Merged JK4 Speculation Thread!

[Prime]

Originally posted by Kurgan

But then, these are FPS games, we don't need perfect realism.

OMG it haz to be lik teh MOOVEEZZ!!1!

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

Agreed. While it's hilarious to pull an entire squad of stormtroopers (and their guns) at once in JK2, I do enjoy the fine-tuned nature of pull/push in JK/MotS.

That aspect of the game was rediculous. One button and every normal enemy would land at your feet defenseless. It made the game entirely too easy. And besides, it wasn't like teh moovies!!

[jedispy]

Quoted from Prime

 

That aspect of the game was rediculous. One button and every normal enemy would land at your feet defenseless. It made the game entirely too easy. And besides, it wasn't like teh moovies!!

 

Only partially so. Massive force pull was never used in the movies, but push was. TPM on the Nemodian ship, Obi Wan and Qui Gon both used force push, and multiple droids fell over.

 

What's my point? I don't really know.

 

I wish there was a pull 1 for individual items (guns, powerups, etc...) and pull 2 for everything else. Same for push, but reverse.

[Spider AL]

This could be done with one key, just as JK Jump was full force when tapped, but incremental when held down.

[txa1265]

As this has turned from 'end of series' to a very civil 'JK vs JKII/JA' war to 'stuff we like, we can continue the trend.

 

I remember when JKII first arrived I rejoiced in Force Speed. Still do. I've played JK & MotS probably 4 or so times since March 2002, and there are still so many things I like about that game, yet not a single gameplay feature that I like better than JKII. Not one. That has nothing to do with story or MP, just SP gameplay, release date notwithstanding. Indeed, I loved the early JKII levels so much because of the Dark Forces feel.

 

I also remember stating that I would have liked to have the option to apply powers in a variable way - like the single/multi pull, which should also vary mana cost, there could also be variable mind trick, and so on. Heck - I'd be happy if the next one let you choose what 'type' of speed you'd like, and default to JKII/JA (as that is what many, many more people bought ... and more recently)

 

Mike

[jedispy]

Posted by txa1265

very civil 'JK vs JKII/JA' war

I proudly claim 50% of the maturity in that part of the debate.

 

As for what to do with the rest of the Jedi Knight series, it's hard to say. They've just about done everything. I suppose some madman could try to start another clone war.

 

It's hard to come up with material when it's based on the classic trilogy timeline. Reason being is that it is hard to write something that doesn't blatently contradict the movies. Heck, it's hard enough to even respect the story of Jedi Knight and the 7 Dark Jedi after TPM's "always two there are" line about the Sith. I suppose one could say that Jerec and the 7 Jedi were not really Sith, but just 7 force sensitive people that were affiliated with the Empire. Mara Jade would fit into this category as she was the Emperor's Hand. Hey...I think that makes sense actually. Sith always use red blade lightsabers. Mara Jade's lightsaber was purple, and all of the Dark Jedi lightsabers were colors other than red, except for Jerec's.

 

Brought to you by jedispy.com, and the letter H.

 

<warning, my website might suck when you visit it. I have not finished updating it.>

[Spider AL]

What, you couldn't be bothered to screenshot Maw when he actually HAD his sabre ignited? Lazy!

[jedispy]

Well the problem is that there are no cut scenes where the saber is ignited, and the graphics are so suck@$$ that I didn't want to insult this blessed forum.

 

And yes I am lazy. That's why my website is as ugly as as crap. The only thing uglier than my website is a PT Cruiser

[Ace-_Ventura]

pt cruiser?

[Prime]

Originally posted by jedispy

Only partially so. Massive force pull was never used in the movies, but push was. TPM on the Nemodian ship, Obi Wan and Qui Gon both used force push, and multiple droids fell over.

 

What's my point? I don't really know.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. Actually, I tend to use push more than pull, since I don't like feeling like I am a vacuum cleaner.

 

Originally posted by txa1265

I also remember stating that I would have liked to have the option to apply powers in a variable way - like the single/multi pull, which should also vary mana cost, there could also be variable mind trick, and so on.

I actually wrote a script a while back for JO/JA that allowed you have have one button for level 2 and one for level 3 pull. Basically when the level 2 button is pressed it sets your force pull level to 2, performs the pull, and then sets the level back to 3. The level 3 button just performs the pull as is. It works well enough, and allows you to do it both ways.

[Spider AL]

the graphics are so suck@$$

Aiiee! Kill it kill it! JK is the finest game ever, you should kiss the boots of its graphics! Rah!

[Kurgan]

It doesn't look too bad with 1600x1200 res, actually.

 

Just a little boxy (and the HUD is too small, thanks to the programmers not planning ahead for high resolutions with a resizable HUD, sadly). ; )

 

As to the Dark Jedi thing, well think of it this way:

 

The only "Sith" that existed are both dead, so who's going to enforce these "rules"? Nobody!

 

The "only two" rule for the Sith was not always in place anyway, if you recall the "history" put forth in the C level canonical (below "G level canon" which is the films themselves created by George Lucas) TPM novelisation by Terry Brooks, the Sith originally were a break-away sect from the Jedi Order and numbered in the thousands. This sect began 2,000 years before TPM. Shortly after they were formed a "war" broke out between them and the rest of the Jedi Order. Due to infighting, the Sith warred with themselves, in their own ranks as well. The war lasted 1,000 years and then the Sith were thought wiped out. In reality, the "only two" rule was established (by Darth Bane, IIRC) and they went into hiding. So for 1,000 years before TPM, the Sith were thought extinct, but there were really always 2 hiding.

 

How Yoda knew about the rule if it was a secret is not made clear (note the movie), but perhaps Lucas didn't explain that part to Brooks. Taken literally the book also gives one the impression that Darth Bane was alive at the time the Sith was formed (meaning he lived for at least a thousand years) which is another possibly mistake in the writing. Anyway...

 

Palpatine and Maul, Palpatine and Dooku, Palpatine and Anakin. Then they both die. Luke was supposed to be the next sith (with either Vader or Palpatine as his master). Now there are no more Sith.

 

But it's always possible for someone to try to revive their teachings or proclaim themselves the next Sith (regardless of if the title is valid or not). That's what Tavion tried to do in JA. The Dark Jedi in Jedi Knight never claimed to be Sith (except the "Brothers of the Sith" Gorc & Pic). The term "Dark Jedi" was invented in the EU because Lucas apparently forbade the EU authors from using the Sith except in certain cirumstances, so the term was invented for any "Dark Side" user.

 

But the term has value also because it can describe any Jedi who falls to the Dark Side (Dooku, Vader). But not all Sith are dark Jedi, because (as far as we know) Maul and Palpatine were never part of the Jedi Order.

 

In the Clone Wars cartoon, a certain character meets Dooku and says "I am Sith," which he mocks because he himself is a Sith and thinks this person is just a pretender to the name.

[Spider AL]

How Yoda knew about the rule if it was a secret is not made clear (note the movie), but perhaps Lucas didn't explain that part to Brooks.

Yoda's psychic.

 

Taken literally the book also gives one the impression that Darth Bane was alive at the time the Sith was formed (meaning he lived for at least a thousand years) which is another possibly mistake in the writing. Anyway...

Yoda lived for over nine-hundred years. Who is to say that Bane was not of a species that possessed an even greater life-span?

 

Yuck, I hate the EU novels anyway. Load of guff without the atmosphere of the Original Trilogy in any way shape or form. More like Star Trek novels. As far as I'm concerned, Jedi are adepts of the Light, and Sith adepts of the darkness. How the orders got their names and their origins, these are facts I would wish kept secret. More mystery that way.

[jedispy]

Kurgan, you bring up a lot of good points. I think most of the time, the term "Dark Jedi" refers to dark side-attuned people. I think it is a little silly to use the term Jedi if a person is not affiliated with the party. It's like calling me a Dark Amish because I like to use electricity, when I'm not at all affiliated with the Amish order or follow any ordnung.

 

 

Posted by Spider Al

Yoda lived for over nine-hundred years. Who is to say that Bane was not of a species that possessed an even greater life-span?

 

Don't Hutts live longer? I thought they lived to 1,000 years.

 

Posted by Kurgan

Palpatine and Maul, Palpatine and Dooku, Palpatine and Anakin.

I hate the 2 person rule. One thing I don't get is the timing from TPM to AOTC. Sidius and Maul were the Sith Duet in TPM. Obi Wan kills Maul. Now from this point on the timing gets weird.

 

Master Sypho Dias <spelling?> is killed 10 years prior to AOTC (Ref Obi Wan on Kamino). The clones in AOTC (who by the way were allegedly ordered by Sypho Dias) are growth accelerated over a period of 10 years, thus looking 20 since they age twice as fast (while Boba Fett looks only 10 since he had no growth acceleration). Count Dooku leaves the Jedi order 10 years beforehand as well. He becomes Darth Tyranus at the same time. So, the question is when did all this take place, and in what order? Who killed Dias? Who placed the order for the clones? How long after Maul's death was it until Tyranus came on the scene? Don't the Kaminoans have any form of fraud investigation? (I mean, come on! They used the credit of a dead guy, and it took them 10 years to find out.)

 

Posted by Spider Al

What, you couldn't be bothered to screenshot Maw when he actually HAD his sabre ignited? Lazy!

 

Are you happy now?

 

 

Jedispy - leader of the Dark Amish cult.

[Prime]

Originally posted by jedispy

Are you happy now?

It looks so real!

[txa1265]

Originally posted by jedispy

Are you happy now?

Is that a lightsaber or are you just happy to see me

 

Mike

[Sivy]

ah, the power of MS Paint

 

 

i hope there is another JK game.

i think JA was on the right track, only it wasn't far enough along it IMO. it was still a great game though.

 

maybe the next one should have more RPG features, like XP points, level-ups, most customisation etc.

 

also the ep III game is supposed to have the greatest lightsaber combat system ever. well if its as good as they say then they can implement the system into the next JK game.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Siv

also the ep III game is supposed to have the greatest lightsaber combat system ever. well if its as good as they say then they can implement the system into the next JK game.

I suspect that the system won't be too portable since they would be going from a gamepad to a mouse and keyboard. They have a lot more versatility with the two analog sticks and ten buttons....

[iamtrip]

A lot more versitility than 360 degree 'stick', 5 digital inputs, and 105 analogue

inputs?

[Kurgan]

Being console friendly it may not be that portable, but yeah, PC's have gamepads too, including analog, rumble and all the stuff that consoles have. So really, a PC is more versatile, if anything.

 

That said, most of us play the DF series with a keyboard & Mouse, so it would throw US off if the next game were suddenly optimized for a gamepad.

 

The Episode III game is console only though, so even if it is the "ultimate lightsaber game" it won't be a successor to JK, since it won't have editing and (more likely than not) won't have true online play. Plus the DF series has always been about guns, not just force & sabers, so that too is probably lacking (since we're talking about Prequel era Jedi here).

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Prime

I actually wrote a script a while back for JO/JA that allowed you have have one button for level 2 and one for level 3 pull. Basically when the level 2 button is pressed it sets your force pull level to 2, performs the pull, and then sets the level back to 3. The level 3 button just performs the pull as is. It works well enough, and allows you to do it both ways.

 

 

Sounds cool. Could you share it with the rest of the community? ; )

[Ace-_Ventura]

Originally posted by Siv

maybe the next one should have more RPG features, like XP points, level-ups, most customisation etc.

and i hope not. that would make happier the rpger's. if people want that go play galaxies

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Ace-_Ventura

and i hope not. that would make happier the rpger's. if people want that go play galaxies

Not Galaxies - that's a MMORPG, which many RPG fans - myself included.

 

I think what we are looking for is something more RPG than Jedi Knight, but more direct action than KotOR. Something like Gothic I/II in a Jedi setting ... something where your skills improve more organically through use, not random developer choices or something. Where you can choose to train up skills, and get rewarded for using that skill - so you'd get 'skill points' whether you kill an enemy or avoid them with stealth.

 

Mike

[Sivy]

exactly.

 

i had never played RPGs until kotor. until then i used to rush through games to get to the end goal as quickly as possible. because there was nothing to gain by taking your time. but with kotor you don't rush, you try to do as much as possible and gain as many points as possible so you can develop your character.

 

thats what the next JK game needs if it wants to evolve. something to make you want to explore every part of it.

[Prime]

Originally posted by iamtrip

A lot more versitility than 360 degree 'stick', 5 digital inputs, and 105 analogue

inputs?

I meant just what I said. The gamepad is more versatile in terms of designing a lightsaber system than the mouse and keyboard.

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

Being console friendly it may not be that portable, but yeah, PC's have gamepads too, including analog, rumble and all the stuff that consoles have. So really, a PC is more versatile, if anything.

I realize that. I'm saying that if you have a system that is designed to take advantage of all the features of the console gamepad, that system doesn't necessarily translate too well to the mouse and keyboard. And lets face it, if you are going to make a new Jedi Knight FPS, it has to work with a mouse and keyboard.

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

Sounds cool. Could you share it with the rest of the community? ; )

I can't seem to find it right now, but it works something like the following (can't remember the exact command):

 

bind key1 forcepush // whatever the command to do a forcepush is

 

bind key2 "setforcepull 2; forcepush; setforcepush 3" // or something like that to use the level 2 push

[iamtrip]

I am asking how 2 analogue sticks and 10 buttons is sufficient?

Gamepads are way below par for third person shooters and fps's compared to the speed and precision of a mouse and over 100 keys and their combinations available.

How do you suppose two cumbersome sticks can emulate the rapid speed and pinpoint accuracy of a mouse? Furthermore, how would you suppose that 10 buttons are better than over 100?