swphreak Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Well the thing is, they're kids. I highly doubt the governemnt would send kids to prison (talking less than 16ish years old). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_hill987 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by Kjølen And they were 13. You know, some people are just ignorant. They don't know Bleach is a base.... it's a base right? I think a fine is all that is in order. [cockney] Sorry Guv'ner, didn't know the gun was loaded, honest.[/cockney] so you be let off for ignorance then? good plan. Yes Sodium Hypochlorite is a base, and a strong one at that, Ph12. EDIT: just found this most of which would be on the lable... I. CHEMICAL IDENTIFICATION Trade Name - Liquid Bleach, Soda Bleach Chemical Name - Sodium hypochlorite Chemical formula - NaOCl Concentration in water solution - 5 to 7% Available chlorine CAS No. - 7681-52-9 II. PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS Boiling Point - 1200 C Freezing Point - 8.60 C Specific gravity - 1.11 - 1.2 @ 250 C Appearance - Clear pale yellow solution with Chlorine odor. III. REGULATORY INFORMATION TSCA - CAS No. : 7681-52-9 ID No. : NA-1791 (RO) DOT Hazard class : Corrosive Material Sodium hypochlorite is an oxidizing agent. IV. PHYSICAL HAZARDS Flash point : NA Flammable limits in air : Non combustible Extinguishant : Water Oxidant Corrosive solution V. HEALTH HAZARD Sodium hypochlorite contains chlorine. Inhalation of fumes is to be avoided as it may cause respiratory irritation. Strong sodium hypochlorite solutions are powerful oxidizing agents that slowly produce burns when in contact with the skin. Inhalation may cause burns on mouth, throat and stomach. VI. EMERGENCY FIRST AID EYE CONTACT - Immediately flush eyes with directed stream of water for at least 15 minutes while forcibly holding eyelids apart to insure complete irrigation of all eye and lid tissue. SKIN CONTACT - Flush exposed areas with plenty of water for at least 15 mins. INHALATION - Removed to fresh air and have the victim drink milk, milk of magnesia or small amount of brandy. INGESTION - If swallowed and victim is conscious, have victim drink water, brandy or milk. Do not give vinegar or fruit juices because they are acidic. Do not induce vomiting. If swallowed and victim is unconscious or having convulsions, keep victim warm and get medical help immediately. VII. PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT VENTILATION - Storage and working area should be well ventilated. Local exhausts are necessary to suck any fumes. CLOTHING - Appropriate clothing to prevent the solutions contact with skin. EYE PROTECTION - Normally no fumes but to avoid contacts with eyes, wear goggles and face shield when handling. HAND PROTECTION - Rubber gloves must be used to avoid skin contact. VIII. SPILLS, LEAKS AND DISPOSAL PROCEDURES SPILLS - flush with water to dilute the solution. Neutralize with Sodium Sulfide, Sodium Sulfite, or Sodium thiosulfate solution. LEAKS - should be repaired immediately. Leaks in tanks, pipe valves, etc. should be flush with large quantity of water to dilute the solution. DISPOSAL - dilute sodium hypochlorite should be flushed out with plenty of water to reduce available chlorine content to less than 20 ppm level. If necessary neutralize with solution of sodium sulfite, sodium sulfide or sodium thiosulfate. IX. SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION 1. Sodium hypochlorite is a strong oxidizing agent. Do not mix with reducing agents such as rags, wood fibers, paper debris, etc. or with reducing chemicals except under controlled conditions. Do not discord concentrated sodium hypochlorite indiscriminately. A spontaneous combustion fire could result. 2. Do not mix acids, ammonia or any ammoniated chemicals (such as amines). Chlorine which is hazardous gas will be released. 3. Store in corrosion resistant tanks such as hard rubber lined steel tanks, PVC, Polyethylene, FRP and other plastic tanks. Heavy metal pick-up in sodium hypochlorite solution will decompose the sodium hypochlorite solution will decompose the sodium hypochlorite causing evolution of oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog I think sentances to minor crimes should be sentanced to kids the same as adults! example: a kid who does vandalism is a misdemeanor, and a kid should know better the same as an adult. Should he get let off easy just becuase of his age? "he's just fourteen, he didn't know any better..." BULL! parental guidence should have tought him it is wrong to vandalize! Puting bleach in the icing is aginst common sense. Thoe girls should have known better.ANY crime big and small, people under 18 should know better! (I would understand if the person was 5 years old, but thats what the "keep out of reach of children" label is for.) there has to be some allowance for the fact that people do things as juveniles that they probably wouldnt do in adulthood, so the adult punishment is not always the best way to go. Only serious crimes (like this case) should go the full wack because stuff like this has to be properly punished, not just an exercise in lesson-teaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah there has to be some allowance for the fact that people do things as juveniles that they probably wouldnt do in adulthood, so the adult punishment is not always the best way to go. Only serious crimes (like this case) should go the full wack because stuff like this has to be properly punished, not just an exercise in lesson-teaching So you think juviniles are more ignorant than adults about minor crimes? how so? little crimes are KNOWN by common sense by juviniles as much as adults. I never did minor crimes even when I was a juvinile. Not all juviniles do bad things. That shows juviniles do what they do by choice. true, a juvinile is more likely to do minor crimes as well as big ones ocasionaly, however that is becuase they are not tuaght right by their parents. It is also possible they think themselves invincible or something. the only way to deal with them now is show them what their lives would be like if they continue. that cannot be done by letting them off easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Lids at the age of 13 or so, in general, know right from wrong. However they DON'T fully associate their actions with consequences. Kids tend to live in the immediate "now", rather than thinking things through to their conclusion as adults do. I know that, even as a fairly well behaved and reasonably well educated kid, I would occasionally do some incredibly stupid & dangerous things. Not because I wanted to do something dangerous, but because i got caught up in the excitement of whatever i was doing and then, nly when it was too late, realised that it was a very bad idea and i knew better. Of course, this can still happen to adults, but it is VERY common among kids. Playing with matches, playing with dangerous chemicals or fireworks, etc... these are things almost all kids do. Not cos they want to hurt people (or themselves), and not even because they haven't been told it is wrong. But because (a) it is forbidden, therefore exciting, (b) they haven't experienced the consequences. that and the fact that most kids don't really have feelings of mortality, so they don't really "get" the fact that permanent damage or death might result from their actions as they don;'t really understand the concept. I would have thought that the tabasco sauce pretty much proved they DIDNT mean to kill people... after all, if you are trying to kill them, why add stuff that tastes funny? I suspect that the resulting fuss, panic and trouble has scared them into not doing anything like this again. I know it does for a lot of kids. Kicking a few misguided or prank pulling kids out of school, and into a young offenders institution seems a great way to ensure that they change from silly kids into future badly educated, outsiders and criminals if you ask me... ... but then some people seem to put vengance (vindictiveness) over practicality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by toms Lids at the age of 13 or so, in general, know right from wrong. However they DON'T fully associate their actions with consequences. Kids tend to live in the immediate "now", rather than thinking things through to their conclusion as adults do. I know that, even as a fairly well behaved and reasonably well educated kid, I would occasionally do some incredibly stupid & dangerous things. Not because I wanted to do something dangerous, but because i got caught up in the excitement of whatever i was doing and then, nly when it was too late, realised that it was a very bad idea and i knew better. Of course, this can still happen to adults, but it is VERY common among kids. Playing with matches, playing with dangerous chemicals or fireworks, etc... these are things almost all kids do. Not cos they want to hurt people (or themselves), and not even because they haven't been told it is wrong. But because (a) it is forbidden, therefore exciting, (b) they haven't experienced the consequences. that and the fact that most kids don't really have feelings of mortality, so they don't really "get" the fact that permanent damage or death might result from their actions as they don;'t really understand the concept. ... but then some people seem to put vengance (vindictiveness) over practicality... ...uh NOBODY thiks the consequences fully through when they commit a crime. murderers don't fully think things through when they kill someone. Kids don't think things through when the spray the side of a car in Singapore. If they DID think the consequinces through thhey would never have done the crime in the first place. you dont see a single criminal who has fully thought the consequinces and then actualy DID the crime know what I mean! "I didn't think the consequinces" will not exuse their mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I agree with ET on this one. The parents screwed up somewhere. Sending kids to "prison" or "juvi" is never the solution. Kids learn how to sell drugs, commit crimes, escape from justice in those places. Instead of going to regular school they go to a school for future criminals. The truth is, there's no appropriate punishment that doesn't either sound barbaric or just plain useless. Maybe fine them a huge amount of money that they have to pay after they're 18 but prison for kids is NOT the way. Back to the parents, I believe they should get punished as well. Hell, if you haven't told your kids that bleach is poison and they don't know that it can kill, you deserve a hell of a spanking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad I agree with ET on this one. The parents screwed up somewhere. Sending kids to "prison" or "juvi" is never the solution. Kids learn how to sell drugs, commit crimes, escape from justice in those places. Instead of going to regular school they go to a school for future criminals. The truth is, there's no appropriate punishment that doesn't either barbaric or just plain useless. Maybe fine them a huge amount of money that they have to pay after they're 18 but prison for kids is NOT the way. Back to the parents, I believe they should get punished as well. Hell, if you haven't told your kids that bleach is poison and they don't know that it can kill, you deserve a hell of a spanking Two words: BOOT CAMP:laughing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I am in TOTAL agreement with Kipper here, kids of this age know right from wrong just as well as thirty-somethings do. They may not have maturity in the sense of life-experience, but societal rules and standards are clear by this point in development, as long as the child has had SOME social exposure, or even TV for godsake. Lids at the age of 13 or so, in general, know right from wrong. However they DON'T fully associate their actions with consequences. Even with the qualification "in general" that's a sweeping blanket statement, and a bit of a fallacy. If you can't associate consequence with action by age 13... by god, you're a sociopath. The truth is, there's no appropriate punishment that doesn't either barbaric or just plain useless. Maybe fine them a huge amount of money that they have to pay after they're 18 but prison for kids is NOT the way.Sadly, this is correct. There's no punishment that's proven to be effective with juvenile offenders... But... There's no punishment that's proven to be effective with adults either. So chuck them all in prison, that's what I say. I would have thought that the tabasco sauce pretty much proved they DIDNT mean to kill people... after all, if you are trying to kill them, why add stuff that tastes funny? I would presume, to attempt to disguise the taste of the bleach. This behaviour is common among serious poisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 What kind of punishment do you think they should get? -I vote boot camp, It worked on talkshows! -InsaneSith voted to make THEM drink bleach. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Community service. Just make sure they don't do any food preparing at old folks homes. Meh, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 Community service. Just make sure they don't do any food preparing at old folks homes. Meh, I don't know. On the contrary, making them prepare food at nursing homes would be perfect! we will teach them how to cook properlyAND get rid of useless old folks at the same time! kill two birds with one stone! ...JUST KIDDING:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I admit it would be quite ironic if we made them cook for an old folks home but I fear they might want to take revenge and actually poison the old folks x_x That doesn't really help but community service is not a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog What kind of punishment do you think they should get? -I vote boot camp, It worked on talkshows! Originally posted by kipperthefrog What kind of punishment do you think they should get? -I vote boot camp, It worked on talkshows! A lot of things work on talk shows. Cussing like a crack-pot with turret syndrome and going after your nearest family member with a lawn chair is also effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Originally posted by Hiroki A lot of things work on talk shows. Cussing like a crack-pot with turret syndrome and going after your nearest family member with a lawn chair is also effective. My dad says it works too. by the way what is YOUR sugestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 Here Is Another Bleach Story: Bleach: Removes Tough teens fast! (note: joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 wouldn't that post be better suited to the abortion and sex education threads? PLEDGE OR DIE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Save room for Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Yeah, that'll really help those 12 year old girls girls. Throw them in jail away from their parents with the rapists, robbers and murderers... Heard of rehabilitation? Psychiatric hospitals? Throwing a 12-year old in jail is about the most idiotic and counter-productive thing you can do. When I was in the hospital, I had a unit-mate about my age who had tried to hang this other guy. Would I want him in jail without psychiatric help? Nope. I was glad he was with us getting help. Was I afraid of him? Nope. Not the least. People have to stop looking at criminals as something other than humans. These 12-year old girls are just like all other 12-year old girls, except they did something very dumb. What kind of punishment do you think they should get? -I vote boot camp, It worked on talkshows! That's a joke, right? Well the thing is, they're kids. I highly doubt the governemnt would send kids to prison (talking less than 16ish years old). You either don't live in the States or you're not aware of what's going on. For your information, the States is where kids go to jail for sneaking into school grounds at night to play football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 the states has one of the worst "child imprisonment" records of any western country according to amnesty international. Did i hear something about moves affoot to allow them to try most kids as adults (not that they don't usually manage to do that anyway..)?? Or did i imagine that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Jedi Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 For your information, the States is where kids go to jail for sneaking into school grounds at night to play football... [/b] And for bringing scissors, we mustn't forget. And for the poison cake girls: Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. They oughta be required to get psychiatric help, as well as have it should be made certain that they have lots of regularity in their lives. Such as having to do some sort of work, as well as have things that they are required to do at home on a regular basis to keep them occupied and not concocting ridiculous and very harmful plans. I don't think that locking them up is a good plan. That is just as likely, if not more likely, to cause harm rather than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Did i hear something about moves affoot to allow them to try most kids as adults (not that they don't usually manage to do that anyway..)?? Or did i imagine that? You did indeed hear it. Pure idiotic cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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