toms Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Children expecting the ruddy cheeked, blue-eyed, elderly Father Christmas to pop down their chimneys on December 25 are being misled. According to new research, Saint Nicholas did once exist, but he was short, olive-skinned and had a broken nose. Using forensic technology more often used to reconstruct a facial image from rotting remains, scientists have pieced together an image of Saint Nicholas that owes more to his 4th century Turkish roots and bruiser lifestyle than the 20th century Coca-Cola advert, which introduced the red suit. The real Saint Nicholas is likely to have had olive skin, dark brown eyes and a wide chin and brow. He stood at 1.68 metres (5ft 6in) and had a broken nose. However, according to the researchers, he did sport white hair and a beard - as was the fashion for 4th century religious leaders. Manchester University anthropologist Caroline Wilkinson, who was involved in the research, which forms the basis of a BBC2 documentary, The Real Face of Santa, to be screened on Saturday, created a clay model of the saint from a three-dimensional computer generated model based on x-rays and measurements taken from the saint's remains in the 1950s. His remains, which are kept in Bari in southern Italy, were last exhumed half a century ago when the Vatican granted an anthropologist permission to examine them. Researchers at the Image Foundry Studios, which produce computer-aided imaging and normally work on films, generated an image. They researched paintings of religious leaders from the time to piece together what the saint's hair and beard would have looked like. Dr Wilkinson said it was possible that Santa picked up the broken nose during a bar brawl. "The broken nose suggests something about his character. He was considered a bit of a rebel - he may have come into conflict with people. He could have just fallen down some stairs, but it's quite a heavy duty break." She added that, colouring and broken nose aside, the image of Saint Nicholas was not that far from the present day portrayal. "It's not the rosy chubby faced pink nosed view of Father Christmas, but it is consistent with what we know about him. He's got a wide-square face, and he's very masculine looking." The techniques used are considered to be about 70% reliable, although some detail may have been lost because the scientists worked from historical data, rather than collecting their own. But Dr Wilkinson said that it was the most reliable image to date. The popular image of a jolly old white man with red cheeks and a red fur-lined suit was the result of a Coca-Cola advertising campaign in December 1951. Anand Kapoor, from Image Foundry, said: "Saint Nicholas is definitely not what people will have in mind he is very heavy set with a square jaw and a broken nose - if he were alive now you would imagine him to be a rugby player or a bouncer, or even a stereotypical thug, anything but the Coca-Cola Santa that everyone has grown to love. "The sheer size of his face itself is very domineering and daunting, and from his broken nose and general demeanour he would seem to be a doer rather than a thinker." from: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,1372802,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiE23 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thats weird (reads "broken nose") I never knew Santa got into so many bar fights TiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_hill987 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 It wansn't a bar room brawl, he did it falling of a roof after one too many glasses of sherry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothiX Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Santa Claus != Saint Nicholas. Saint Nicholas is the Dutch "Sint Nicolaas", or just "Sinterklaas", and he comes to bring presents on his birthday, December 5th. Your dumbass Santa Claus is a cheap rip-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_hill987 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by GothiX Your dumbass Santa Claus is a cheap rip-off. Horray for Coca-Cola! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 'round here it's pretty common knowledge that Saint nicholas came from turkey and lived long ago... Took you pretty long to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie™ Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by GothiX Santa Claus != Saint Nicholas. Saint Nicholas is the Dutch "Sint Nicolaas", or just "Sinterklaas", and he comes to bring presents on his birthday, December 5th. Your dumbass Santa Claus is a cheap rip-off. Around here we've had the Fjøsnisse for a long time (yes, even before coca cola ) He didn't give out presents, but he lives in barns and takes care of animals and fixes anything that isn't working properly. Our "santa" is based on this character, but in recent years the american (cola) influence has taken more and more over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by GothiX Your dumbass Santa Claus is a cheap rip-off. Because that's a necessary slam against our culture I love how everyone likes to point out that American culture rips off other cultures. Well, I guess you may need a history lesson. You see, America is what some may call a "newer" country than most European nations. Back in the day, there was no "America" as we know it today. It was eventually colonized by European nations though, and we brought in a mix of cutlures. We use other cultures because we're basically just descendents of those cultures that moved away, and so we took what was theirs, and made it our own by putting our own twist on things. So you can think our Santa Claus is stupid all you want, but I know a lot of little children would kick you in the nuts so fast if you tried to tell THEM that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 And you know all those little children... personnally ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Well I do know SOME little children, I'm not a complete shut-in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior I'm not a complete shut-in Not without your children atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dark Jedi Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by jon_hill987 It wansn't a bar room brawl, he did it falling of a roof after one too many glases of sherry! Heh that is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IG-64 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Yeah, because all other countries can develop holidays except America. The germans can introduce the christmas tree, the druids can introduce mistletoe, but americans can't introduce anything without people getting pissed. What's wrong with this picture? So what if coke made santa's suit red and white, does it automatically equal evil? *claps for ET* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by IG-64 Yeah, because all other countries can develop holidays except America. The germans can introduce the christmas tree, the druids can introduce mistletoe, but americans can't introduce anything without people getting pissed. What's wrong with this picture? So what if coke made santa's suit red and white, does it automatically equal evil? *claps for ET* I agree. *standing ovation for ET* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Originally posted by IG-64 So what if coke made santa's suit red and white, does it automatically equal evil? nah, just a corporate whore. anyway, anyone else picking up a child molestor vibe from the look of "santa's" face? <_< He looks like that one dude they arrested in my neighborhood a few years ago because he was abducting kids and ra... touching them... *shudders* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Damn. That spoils everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The germans can introduce the christmas tree, the druids can introduce mistletoe, but americans can't introduce anything without people getting pissed. What's wrong with this picture? So what if coke made santa's suit red and white, does it automatically equal evil? Corporately evil, sure. And why do we pick on America's ideas? Not because America created them, but because America dumbed them down. There's so much sugar in American exports, food or not, that they're sickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 This is the real face of Santa: Just move a couple of letters around and you get Santa's REAL name! He's a right evil bastard indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Groovy, you know that young, impressionable children visit this forum, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Originally posted by Samuel Dravis Groovy, you know that young, impressionable children visit this forum, right? Best to warn them now before it is too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothiX Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I'm not picking on American culture, I'm picking on the fact that Santa Claus is NOT Saint Nicholas, which means that that article doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I'd like to remind ET and IG that us "non americans" LOVE and RELISH the opportunity to mock, criticise, blame anything and everything on the social and corporate entity that comprises "America." Try not to take it personally tho, Im sure you are both perfectly clever, potent and virile men *sigh, will americans ever grasp how the rest of the world really sees them* :p as for Santa, I prefer groovy's version mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 would I be hated if I said it all pretty much sucks? <_< just bring da presents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith would I be hated if I said it all pretty much sucks? <_< just bring da presents! I don't even care about THAT any more. I would give away my presents to make it all go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Originally posted by Darth Groovy I don't even care about THAT any more. I would give away my presents to make it all go away. Well, Ive got the solution for you Mr Groovey Become muslim, buddhist, hindu ! I have NEVER had to worry about xmas. I only buy my gf a damn present because she buys me one mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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