acdcfanbill Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 being french isnt an excuse, i know other french guys who are quite articulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 and do those french people know how to code? acdcfanbill i speak too many languages and also to many computer languages..... this is difficult to speak all correctly... and you who critize my english, how many languages you speak? probably just english your native language..... Try to speak my language... i am sure it will be funny for all french people computer does not support any mistakes..... but human brain does support and can easily understand.... I make a lot of effort when i code because i am forced to. Now i am not that good in english But when i have to anwser to many insults, or bashing speaking i make no effort.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Lol, I misspelled Insult as Unsult. Lol. Slider, I meant no disrespect. I was just wondering. I too speak a few languages, including English and Spanish, and I used to speak a little Arabic and Japanese (I can't remember anything anymore, because I barley learned anything) computer does not support any mistakes..... I know. I have coded using C++, its annoying to only miss one symbole, like a ";" and the whole program won't run. It can be the same with Icarus scripting for JKA, not to mention shaders and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Well well well, when push comes to shove and the modder gets scratched, what shows underneath is nothing more than a spoiled brat. Slider, I'm not going to bother to even quote your poorly articulated dung you pathetically attempt to call your own opinion. Instead, I'm going to lay every little single card out infront of your eyes. Take the blinders off for a moment before you even begin to type a single word to refute the things I am about to lay out. Frist of all, what Young Jedi Knight said in regards to how JA has died off is partially true: Most of the competitive clans (who don't believe in this fairy tale honor horse**** made up by a delusional retard after having a session with Bubba *cough Slow Burn and the Saberist Code cough*) refused to move over to JA due to the fact that playing JA was taking a step BACKWARD to playing JKII. By adding "flashy new acrobatics moves!" and "two more saber types!", what exactly did they screw up in the process? -The kick: Arguably the best move a competitive player could pick up on, it was nowhere to be found (even in the leaked versions). The kick was ESSENTIAL to certain gametypes with the gimping of sabers from JKII v1.03 and onwards (Full Force CTF, Full Force Duel, etc). Kicking was a drain whore's worst nightmare, especially combined with PT and Grip. -Force points for specials: This was hardly required to be implemented... Assinine at it's best. All moves from JKII had a counter once 1.04 was implemented (no more of that pivot BS ****). Other force combos that were widely accepted, such as FRage/DFA, were made obsolete. This anti-measure spam was unwarranted, and most mods immediately removed such conditions. This also brought about forceregentime 0, which led to massive force abuse of powers such as lightning and drain... but I digress. I'm talking about sabers and specials. Which brings me to my next point... -Specials per saber style were unbalanced: They nerfed single neutral's undercut with an unwarranted pivot lock. DFA was gimped beyond all recognition. Dual-bladed saber's butterfly jump was brutal if connected; deadly if someone had their mouse sensitivity/cl_yawspeed cranked and was able to stick to their victim. Dual-bladed saber also had one of the most infamous bugs in JA stemming off of it's own kick. They could have thought of something better for both dual sabers involving duck+forward+attack1. The end result was single saber being gimped while the new sabers started to dominate. I'm leaving katas out of this one because my next point is... Katas: The BIGGEST, most OBSCENE joke in the ENTIRE Dark Forces series lie in these pieces of crap for moves. "But these are used for dueling!!1" Yeah, like any real duelist is going to take you seriously if you decide to spam a bunch of retarded gestures like a raver on E with glowsticks ad-nauseum? "Say hi to spammy dual saber kata!" "Say hi to saber throw, bitch!" On, and one minor point, once again all kata were not created equal. A dual saber user could stand in a crowd of FFA players and just suddenly use the kata to oblivion. Not only did this fustrate newbies, but with the adoption of forceregentime 0 by all the retards without a clue, it became a showstopper. -New maps: What the hell happened here? Was it "Jedi Knight II's top ten rejected maps" that managed to squeeze it's way in? It seriously looked that way. Poor netcode/server support: This was noticable on most servers I went to, especially when trying to connect to a server with ASE when I was still using that piece of junk. There was a lot of packetloss and lag about in any JA server I went to, and while some of the remaining might have finally stabalized, I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining servers were still utter pieces of garbage. Not to mention for a while before the one and ONLY patch Raven put out (which subsequentially nerfed rolling as well), the in-game browser did not function as intended. This boned A LOT of the people who originally picked up the game and wanted to shoot for multiplayer right away and didn't know about ASE or Gamespy or other server browsers. Now, with this and much, much more, why exactly would you want to move on from an established game to, in it's own right, a butchered expansion? It's one of those questions that begs to be asked. Onto my second point, the honor codes... For christ sake, I shouldn't even have to reiterate the points I have made in the past to how such a mindset is detrimental to a game fundamentally based in a first-person shooter environment. You think bowing is honor? Not attacking people with their sabers down is honor? You wouldn't know honor if it screwed you from behind and gave you the courtesy of a reach around. Those crybaby sissies you have so catered to in the past to the present Slider wouldn't even know the concepts of humility and respect. It's something old school gamers know that was lost when the new generation came in and got their asses kicked repeatedly. I remember days where you'd connect into a server playing Quake through TCP/IP and just go all out. You'd frag someone, get the occasional camper, deal with the ****talker, but overall you had fun. You didn't accuse someone of being a lameass for having precise aim with the rocket launcher. You didn't cry cheater at the top of your lungs because someone popped you while you came around the corner making the sound level equivalent of a frightened elephant. In the end, all there was were complements, sharing of tactic, and ggs all around at the end of the map whether by timelimit or fraglimit. Fast forward to today. It doesn't matter what game you go to" CS, UT2K4, HL2DM, JA. All games have a fundamental problem: The players are a bunch of whiners who can't take their lumps and shut up. You're playing CS and score a headshot through a wall, lucky or filled with purpose. Instead of a complement for picking up on his sound trail and guessing where he might move to next, he cries that you're a collaborator to myg0t and tries to get you banned. You're playing HL2CTF and you've been defending the base all map. You've used every weapon in your arsenal, and another wannabe group of flag cappers are coming for your flag. You're down to your Overwatch Rifle, clip of thirty and one Pulse charge left. **** the clip, launch the Pulse. After the group dies from the ricochet of the pulse, you're called a ball whore and people start to whine ad-nauseum. You're playing JKII in a FF/SO Duel setting on duel_temple. You come across an opponent that cannot escape grip-kick for the life of him. Instead of learning how to counter GK, he might do a number of things... Grief the next person in line with the dis/reconnect bug, whine excessively in chat, etc. This may be because of the spreading of malicious intent (I cited myg0t earlier), it may be because of the individualist mentality everyone seems to carry around (I'm the ****, no one can beat me!!1). When people can't have the game go their way, they might lose sight of the fact that it is a game (did YOUR parents ever instill that value upon you?). And when that happens, things can get very, very ugly. The values of the older generation were lost on the younger generation, and now we're seeing the repercussions of it. Namely in the form of my third and final argument: Admin mods. The very thing Chosen One and Master Hex tried to avoid this time around was the same bloody monster you managed to create. You brought the one thing that doomed JKII's existence as a serious FPS over into JA, and you expect to NOT be burned for it? Not only that, but you ported over an EXACT replica of Jedi Academy/JediMod++ with potentially abusive commands. What exactly was going on in that ill-conceived mind of yours? I hope the publicity was worth it because the consequences of your actions have now caught up to you. You gave those whining bitches I brought up a weapon more powerful than any saber or force power could ever match. The powers you gave to those self-proclaimed "I'm the **** and you're a lowly peasant!" retards did manage to do only one thing successfully: Drive people away from the game. And now you want to call yourself the redeemer of JA? **** you. You are no Master Hex. You are no Dest. You are no ArtifeX. You are no Chosen One. You are no Razorace. You are no RenegadeofPhunk. You are no Wudan. Each of those people I listed above brought something unique to the Jedi Knight mod scene. Some were more acceptable than others, but none the less what could be done with the tools provided had impacts you wouldn't even begin to be able to comprehend. Instead, all you are is a second rate hackjob. I'd even go to say you're the second coming of BOFH. This whole dimensional thing is the first (hold on, let me check that again, holy ****!) thing you must have managed to do by yourself. And when someone brings up one minute detail, you flip out like one of those "ninjas" you hear about over at realultimatepower.com. Get the hell off your high horse. Amidala has had you by the last thread of life you possess this entire thread, I'm just waiting for her to end it. (Now that this is over... someone want to point me to blademod? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 whoo hoo! someone remimbers Artifex's ProMod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 You sound a little mad, Blackrose. The only solution is a new JK game. It will take a while for coders to decipher and code a brand new admin mod. If Raven had removed the duel challenge this whole thing may have been prevented. While I understand its purpose and think it is a good idea, without the challenge these n00bs never would have started thinking it was honorable. To me, honor is fragging every guy left and right, jumping into a chaotic crowd of psycko saberists and thrashing them all, only to emerge victorious. Thats honorable... Theres no honor in making human towers, or chatting around a duel pad. If I join a server right now, they will just be chatting. They think if they don't have a 100% fair chance at winning (cause they normally suck) its lame. Its lame to just walk up and stab them. Its lame to do anything they can't do, or something that kills them fast. About the other deminsion: No one will join the fighting deminsion. Common sense, they will teleport "lamers" there and continue to chat. Meanwhile, the guy who wants to play will be by himself... sort of. Its pointless... you might as well kick him, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Blackrose is not mad, he's just stating the cold hard truth. Promod is awesome, I reinstalled JO 6 months ago just to play it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I went server hoping. I found a server with the alt dimension thing. While I was wrong, people are using it... the server lagged (mods just lag.... I never have a lot of problems with basejka) I joined the no rules dimension and started to fight. Problem: 5 people were in the room, 2 in the same dimension, and 3 others not in. How can I tell who is in, and who isn't. I tried fighting someone, and just went through them. Then I didn't attack someone, and they killed me. I just... got annoyed, through lag and everything else I couldn't tell who was where and on what side. At least make people not in your deminsion invisable... it will save FPS, and possibly cut out some lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 lukeskywalker1 this is because you don't have the plugin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Jedi King Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 The only solution is a new JK game. It will take a while for coders to decipher and code a brand new admin mod. LOL that would solve nothing lukeskywalker1 things would start all over. What raven and lucasarts need to do is Code a admin mod in the base game with two commands and that is KICK and BAN and DO NOT GIVE OUT THE SOURCE CODE NEEDED TO MAKE THE MODS....The whole reason there are so many freaking mods is because the majority of the JKA community Whined because they could not kick/ban people that were causing trouble (so raven released the Code so these mods can be made) and the reason for the excessive whining was because most Server Owners Were leery on giving out the Rcon password (which I totally understand because I don't think that even Amidala would want to give out rcon pass) Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 If Raven had removed the duel challenge this whole thing may have been prevented. While I understand its purpose and think it is a good idea, without the challenge these n00bs never would have started thinking it was honorable. I personally like being able to duel in FFA there is nothing more that I hate then having to wait 20 mins to duel in a duel server only to have some Nut use a exploit in the game (which there are tons of in duel mode). To me that is not fun (isn't that why we play games is to have fun???) sooo I go to the FFA servers and duel when ever I want and for however long I want and I don't have to wait in line for 20 minutes just to play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Originally posted by Young Jedi King LOL that would solve nothing lukeskywalker1 things would start all over. What raven and lucasarts need to do is Code a admin mod in the base game with two commands and that is KICK and BAN and DO NOT GIVE OUT THE SOURCE CODE NEEDED TO MAKE THE MODS.... This doesn't make sense. Quake3 engine has always had the ability to kick and ban people. JK2/JA are no exception. It was built into the game from day 1. The source code is the problem. Yes, without the release of the source code, none of these admin mods could ever have been made. Of course any good mod (like OJP or ProMod3, ForceMod3, Movie Battles) would also never have been made. We'd just have skins, new models, some maps and sounds, but no radically altered gameplay mods. The whole reason there are so many freaking mods is because the majority of the JKA community Whined because they could not kick/ban people that were causing trouble (so raven released the Code so these mods can be made) See above. You could always kick and ban. It had nothing to do with that. They released the source code because they wanted to give players the ability to mod this game as so many other games have been moddable in the Quake3 series. It was not a decision they made to quell whining. There was a group whining very early on about "honorz." They wanted to be able to have a no force saber duel anytime, anywhere, without interferance from people with guns. The thing is, Raven even did them a favor with JK2, because the lightsaber challenge was a feature built right into the FFA game. You had to disable it for it not to work! The trouble is, even this wasn't enough for the "honorz" whiners. They wanted to make it so that NO OTHER TYPE OF GAMEPLAY WAS POSSIBLE, PERIOD. So they supported the admin mods makers, which appealed to their snobbery. Thus we end up with servers running JA+ Mod where any other gameplay other than challenging somebody to a private duel is impossible (and if you beat the admin or his subadmin friends too often he'll slap/sleep/bangun you off the map when it suites him). and the reason for the excessive whining was because most Server Owners Were leery on giving out the Rcon password (which I totally understand because I don't think that even Amidala would want to give out rcon pass) I don't see the big deal here. Why should the admin of a server give lots of other people admin abilities? This doesn't make sense. How many other games have "sub admins" in addition to regular admins? I don't know of any, but maybe you can name some. The subadmin system in the JK2/JA mods may have had a good intention.. ie: that the admin who wanted to run a server 24/7 but was "too busy" to watch it all the time would give others some limited powers there to keep things running smoothly. In practice however it's just used as a reward system. If you brownnose the admin enough, he'll let you in on his sleep/slap/bangun antics. Or it just helps to serve the clan ethic.. clan members stick together and everyone else joining the server gets screwed. Of course if clans are about competition you'd think that this would be the total antithesis of such gameplay. I associate clans with team games. But the honorz crowd favors one style of gameplay, the one on one saber duel with no force. So what is the point of having a clan for that? Just to have a one on one duel tournament ladder? That's about all you could possibly do. The point of training with a group of people to coordinate tactics then becomes pointless. It's just a saber dueling club. It doesn't matter if you have two members or 2 thousand. The admin mods have become "panic buttons" for admins who get beaten fair and square, and "messing around" mods for bored admins who want to grief people. That and the RPG chatrooms which feature no competitive gameplay whatosever... I personally like being able to duel in FFA there is nothing more that I hate then having to wait 20 mins to duel in a duel server only to have some Nut use a exploit in the game (which there are tons of in duel mode). To me that is not fun (isn't that why we play games is to have fun???) Admin mods have done nothing to fix the exploits in the game. Your only recourse is to whine to the admin to "lame" the person who you think or want to claim is "exploiting." Rather than fix the problem, this game just turned the admins/subadmins into thugs who get to beat up people they don't like with impunity. At least in the past a sore loser admin had two options: remove the player beating you from the game and thus look like you're a sore loser, or suck it up and try to beat him using the same gameplay tactics available to all. As far as waiting for a duel, well that's just how it is. If a server is running duel mode and there's 50 people waiting, that's really boring. I wouldn't host a duel server with more than 8 slots, it's just too much waiting (6 is better than 8). As far as saber challenges, a duel can last a long time if people are good (or the saber damage is set really low). Some admin mods added the ability for multiple duels, but even OJP has that. You don't need slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun for that. You don't need subadmins or teleportation commands for that. sooo I go to the FFA servers and duel when ever I want and for however long I want and I don't have to wait in line for 20 minutes just to play... Fine. Though I'd say joining a FFA to play a duel is kind of silly. You say you don't want to wait, ok. But it's impatience. They made it so only one saber challenge can occur at a time for a reason. You wait your turn because this is just a bonus gameplay feature, not the core of the game (which is fighting all out with sabers, guns and force with a bunch of people) intended by the developers. Don't you think there's other people out there who want to play this game too? Not everyone wants to just duel. For that hosting your own server or playing on a network with your friends makes more sense. And so for the convenience of letting you duel forever, everybody else suffers because they find it difficult to find a server that isn't doing just that. I'm not blaming you for the problem, just this mentality you have that is shared by far too many JK2/JA players, unfortunately. It's the elitest attitude that this 1% of the gameplay is the only one which should be allowed, and which inspired these admin mods to take over. Of course the other side is the sore loser mentality (the idea that we have to "GET those 'lamers' for what they did to me"), but still, I hope you see what I'm getting at. JA/JK2 were not made as dueling only games, but some players insist that everyone and everything should revolve around this. That's part of what has ruined the game. Some people focusing on 1% of the gameplay created by the developers and insisting that everyone do this or suffer. No offense intended, but I think I've made my point. I didn't want to turn this into another debate over the issues of gameplay or why admin mods can suck. We've beaten that dead horse already. If slider can actually improve his mod that has taken over half the JA community and make it less abusive, so much the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Jedi King Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Originally posted by Kurgan This doesn't make sense. Quake3 engine has always had the ability to kick and ban people. JK2/JA are no exception. It was built into the game from day 1. True Kurgan and please correct me if I’m wrong it requires the Rcon password does it not?? Originally posted by Kurgan The source code is the problem. Yes, without the release of the source code, none of these admin mods could ever have been made. Of course any good mod (like OJP or ProMod3, ForceMod3, Movie Battles) would also never have been made. We'd just have skins, new models, some maps and sounds, but no radically altered gameplay mods. You are right in that aspect kurgan it would pretty much kill the mod’ing community and the game in the long run…but as long as there are the players that like admin mods (which we both should know there always will be) there will always be some one to make them and of course someone to complain about said mod. Originally posted by Kurgan How many other games have "sub admins" in addition to regular admins? I don't know of any, but maybe you can name some. Your right there is very few games that have sub admin systems if any at all… However there is also very few admin systems that have the power one has with rcon. Now I could be wrong but was that not the whole reason these admin mods/sub admin systems were made was so server owners did not have to give out rcon pasword??? Originally posted by Kurgan I associate clans with team games. But the honorz crowd favors one style of gameplay, the one on one saber duel with no force. So what is the point of having a clan for that? Just to have a one on one duel tournament ladder? That's about all you could possibly do. The point of training with a group of people to coordinate tactics then becomes pointless. I have seen some of these “honorz” clans (as you put it) do a team FFA match and some of these matches are just as fun to watch and play in as a FFA with full force and guns… On the other hand I do agree there are a few people out there that I wonder what have they been smoking with the “rules” they have but I also know they pay for the server they can do what ever they want doesn’t mean I have to go to that server… Originally posted by Kurgan The admin mods have become "panic buttons" for admins who get beaten fair and square, and "messing around" mods for bored admins who want to grief people. That and the RPG chatrooms which feature no competitive gameplay whatosever... Well how would you resolve this problem if you release the code needed to mod the game you pretty much have to expect an admin mod to come out…. I guess that what I was trying to point out in my past post kurgan is we have to take the bad with the good and quit the complaining about Ja+ because there will always be that one coder out there that wants to have the popular mod no matter what he/she has to do. Just so all know I know the maker of OmNi mod (from jk2) he was going to release his mod in jka but got beat to the punch by slider so either way there was going to be a admin mod in jka not matter what anyone wanted….. Originally posted by Kurgan Admin mods have done nothing to fix the exploits in the game. Your only recourse is to whine to the admin to "lame" the person who you think or want to claim is "exploiting." I know this Kurgan besides why would an admin mod fix these exploits???? I look more to OJP (and other mods) to fix the exploits in duel mode and FFA then I do for JA+ to me JA+ is nothing more then a FUN mod…. Originally posted by Kurgan Rather than fix the problem, this game just turned the admins/subadmins into thugs who get to beat up people they don't like with impunity. To me I blame the server owners and the admin’s abusing the powers more then I do the Mod makers but that’s me.. Originally posted by Kurgan As far as waiting for a duel, well that's just how it is. If a server is running duel mode and there's 50 people waiting, that's really boring. I wouldn't host a duel server with more than 8 slots, it's just too much waiting (6 is better than 8). I whish more Basejka duel server’s had that sediment but alas most duel servers that I have come across do not and the ones that do are usually running blademod which is not a bad mod but the players are all concerned about there “stats” to fight…. Originally posted by Kurgan As far as saber challenges, a duel can last a long time if people are good (or the saber damage is set really low). Some admin mods added the ability for multiple duels, but even OJP has that. You don't need slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun for that. You don't need subadmins or teleportation commands for that. Don't you think there's other people out there who want to play this game too? Not everyone wants to just duel. For that hosting your own server or playing on a network with your friends makes more sense. And so for the convenience of letting you duel forever, everybody else suffers because they find it difficult to find a server that isn't doing just that. I'm not blaming you for the problem, just this mentality you have that is shared by far too many JK2/JA players, unfortunately. I agree you don’t need the slap/sleep/slay/bunny/empower/bangun/ghost commands infact if those commands were gotten rid out of every mod I would not care…I’m not a Honor player or a Real Gamer To be honest I don’t really care I go to a server if there just standing around doing the honor thing I’m not going to care I’ll play by there rules (since it’s there server same as you ask people to abide forums rules) I also like a good FFA if I find a server that I like I add it to my favorite’s list and I go back I have quite a few server in my favs list one of which is Chop Shop Originally posted by Kurgan It's the elitest attitude that this 1% of the gameplay is the only one which should be allowed, and which inspired these admin mods to take over. Of course the other side is the sore loser mentality (the idea that we have to "GET those 'lamers' for what they did to me"), but still, I hope you see what I'm getting at. JA/JK2 were not made as dueling only games, but some players insist that everyone and everything should revolve around this. That's part of what has ruined the game. Some people focusing on 1% of the gameplay created by the developers and insisting that everyone do this or suffer. No offense intended, but I think I've made my point. Kurgan I understand what your trying to strees and no offense was taken infact I understood what the real gamers were trying to tell people but I’m of the logic that people will be people there will always be that sore loser there will always be the coder that will do anything for his mod to be most used and there will always be people out there that want a admin mod so I have come to a point were I just don’t care I’m there to play a game nothing more.. Originally posted by Kurgan I didn't want to turn this into another debate over the issues of gameplay or why admin mods can suck. We've beaten that dead horse already. I don’t think you have….this turned into a debate on the first page lol…and yes this horse has been dead for months now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Originally posted by Young Jedi King What raven and lucasarts need to do is Code a admin mod in the base game with two commands and that is KICK and BAN and DO NOT GIVE OUT THE SOURCE CODE NEEDED TO MAKE THE MODS.... They should still give out the source code, so mods like ForceMod and MovieBattles can be made. But what they should do is put some line in the license agreement that says they reserve the right to shut down a server using a mod they deem abusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 What defines abusive, TK? To us, yeah, its abusive. To them its fun. Besides the Honor Community (sadly) is greater than the hardcore community (in numbers.) LucasArts would be smart to provide for them because it will bring in more cash. Plus, it would cost too much money to find and shut down abusive servers. The idea, while good, is to unrealistic. It seems to me, that LucasArts releases the SDKs so that players can fix bugs and add on to the game things that LA doesn't want to be bothered with. It also helps promote programmers and such, that could be potential employees later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 What defines abusive, TK? Common sense. A competent company could do it. Sure it would take some extra effort, but if a company cared about the game they put out they would do what they can to keep multiplayer sane, at least. After seeing Jedi Oucast MP go to hell, you'd think Raven/LA would have done something to stop JA from following the same path, but didn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Theres not a lot they could do... sadly. They wanted to release the SDK, but the problem is, with coding comes and infinate ammount of possibilities, including admin mods. Its obvious the admins don't *really* care about banning and kicking, they enjoy slapping and sleeping people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 You sound a little mad, Blackrose. I'm legally insane, not mad. Get it right. The only solution is a new JK game. It will take a while for coders to decipher and code a brand new admin mod. And we would be right back to square one. All you would be doing is acknowledging a vicious cycle that started. Instead, I'd like to see what Kurgan and Young Jedi were bringing up: a sub-admin section within Raven's own game that has access to only kick and ban. That's it. The problem with handing rcon out left and right means that if someone has the password to your server, some clueless idjit is going to bone it. That solves a myriad of problems within itself. If Raven had removed the duel challenge this whole thing may have been prevented. I call BS. Duel challenge was a mediation between the honor and competitive crowd at it's finest. I don't mind the challenging and all that stuff: sometimes I don't mind taking a break from hacking at limbs in FFA just for a 1v1 beatdown. But as the old adage goes, "give an inch, take it a mile." That's exactly what the honor crowd did. While I understand its purpose and think it is a good idea, without the challenge these n00bs never would have started thinking it was honorable. I'm thinking more of the wannabe samurai/knights than a gameplay mechanic on that issue... Kurgan's posted a spiel on it before, so I'll spare the detail. Theres no honor in making human towers, or chatting around a duel pad. If I join a server right now, they will just be chatting. They think if they don't have a 100% fair chance at winning (cause they normally suck) its lame. Its lame to just walk up and stab them. Its lame to do anything they can't do, or something that kills them fast. At least you get it... About the other deminsion: No one will join the fighting deminsion. Common sense, they will teleport "lamers" there and continue to chat. Meanwhile, the guy who wants to play will be by himself... sort of. Its pointless... you might as well kick him, or something. Remind me to remind Raven about naming their next Jedi Knight game with MP packaged: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Academy: Jedi IRC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted March 19, 2005 Author Share Posted March 19, 2005 LucasArts wants their products to be as profitable as possible (as does every company) so they copy what other game companies do and release the source code, hoping modders will make another CounterStrike or Team Fortress, which expand the game and greatly increase the longevity and market for the game. Unfortunately, JK2 and JA ended up with two admin mods (JA Mod for JK2 and JA+ for JA) that helped to reduce the popularity and longevity of those games. They also must realize that there are a large number of "honor" players who like to duel and chat, and they need to cater to those players. Unfortunately, the only way "honor" players can do what they want to do is to pervert and misuse the "Free For All" gametype, leading to the whole "laming" problem and the admin mods and the abuse that have followed them. So-called "laming" and player abuse are problems only on "Free For All" servers. It isn't an issue on Siege, CTF, Team FFA, Duel, or Power Duel servers. Unfortunately, "Free For All" servers are the logical place for new players to go when they get JK2 or JA. And whether they are total newbies or vets of other games, they are likely to have no idea what "laming" is. They get abused and humiliated when they start going to JK "FFA" servers, and many of them uninstall the game or never play JK MP again. So the game never becomes as popular as it could have been, and the "honor" players become even more dominant, both by brainwashing and assimilating some new players, and by driving out others. If it was up to me, I would do the following: [*]Create a new gametype specifically for the chat-and-duel honor players. Call it "Multiple Dueling" or whatever. Make it automatically saber-only and with the usual duel-challenge and multiple simultaneous duels that the mods have. BUT, only players who are actively dueling could ignite their sabers or use Force, if Force is enabled. No one on the server would have guns or explosives, and people not actively dueling couldn't ignite their sabers and couldn't use Force. So-called "laming" would be impossible. There would be no need for admins patrolling the server like prison guards, looking for "lamers". [*]Restore "Free For All" to its true deathmatch nature. g_weapondisable, g_forcepowerdisable, and g_forceregentime would all be cheat-protected or eliminated altogether. All FFA servers would be full-weapon and full-Force with default Force regeneration, for consistency. By creating the new saber-only, "no laming" "Multiple Duel" gametype separate from full-weapon, full-Force unrestricted deathmatch "FFA", everyone would be happy. The chat-and-duel "honor" players would have something designed specifically for the way they like to play, and it wouldn't be mislabelled as "Free For All" as it is now. "Laming" would be impossible, and abuse would be unnecessary. New players who went to a "Free For All" server would find exactly what they were expecting, instead of what they find now. [*]Incorporate some of the admin mod features into the game: expanded ban list in an external file, client IP address or CD key logging, multi-line MOTD, and subadmin accounts. Subadmins could only silence, kick, or ban. This is to deal with the spammers, hackers, cheaters, and griefers in every game that must be dealt with. But subadmins wouldn't be unnaturally powerful as they are now, and they wouldn't be able to humiliate players with the silly amabuse commands on a whim. [*]Instead of freely distributing the SDK, require people who want to download it to sign an agreement that states what things (such as abuse-prone commands) can't be part of any mod made with the SDK. Make it clear that LucasArts reserves the right to revoke the license of any modder that breaks the agreement, and gives them the power to have file hosting sites remove offending mods from their sites. [/list=1] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Jedi King Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop [*]Incorporate some of the admin mod features into the game: expanded ban list in an external file, client IP address or CD key logging. The Problem with CD key logging is if there is a admin with ill intent could/would easily copy the CD key then post it on the Internet then the players that do not like to buy games would have a whole new exploit then to actually pay for the game…. Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop [*]Instead of freely distributing the SDK, require people who want to download it to sign an agreement that states what things (such as abuse-prone commands) can't be part of any mod made with the SDK. Make it clear that LucasArts reserves the right to revoke the license of any modder that breaks the agreement, and gives them the power to have file hosting sites remove offending mods from their sites. I personally foresee one major problem with that suggestion what game developer would and want to spend there time and there money to enforce the agreement???… To me Lucastarts does not seem the type to do this. Raven is a great developers I haven’t run into many developers were the people that actually made the game help other people expand on it. However once they deliver there product they have to move on to the next project I doubt they would want to pull there team off a new project to enforce a agreement (nor should it be there responsibility to). To me that falls on Lucasart’s head but as I stated Lucasarts doesn’t seem the type to spend the time or money to enforce the agreement… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted March 19, 2005 Author Share Posted March 19, 2005 The Jedi Knight games don't currently use CD keys. I just included that in case for the next game they go to a different engine that uses CD keys to ban players. LucasArts wouldn't have to spend any time or money policing mods. Just making modders sign that agreement would send a clear message that the company doesn't want kids playing their games to be abused and humiliated. What company would want their customers to be treated like that? All they would have to do is provide an special email address where people could report the existence of an abusive or inappropriate mod. It would take less than an hour for someone at the company to verify that the mod is in violation of the license agreement. Then they send a cease and desist email to the modder, and emails to the admins at lucasfiles.com, jk3files.com, pcgamemods.com, etc. to pull the file. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Amidala, while your idea cuts down on abuse there is a problem with it. The ammount of FFA servers would be around 20, and there would be "multiple duel" servers everywhere. Create a new gametype specifically for the chat-and-duel honor players. Call it "Multiple Dueling" or whatever. Make it automatically saber-only and with the usual duel-challenge and multiple simultaneous duels that the mods have. BUT, only players who are actively dueling could ignite their sabers or use Force, if Force is enabled. No one on the server would have guns or explosives, and people not actively dueling couldn't ignite their sabers and couldn't use Force. So-called "laming" would be impossible. There would be no need for admins patrolling the server like prison guards, looking for "lamers". Yeah, its annoying to walk into a server and have some guy grip you, then you hit absorb and slash him, and he cries lamer. I can't stand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Just for the record, Slider and I were able to meet up and discussed some issues for about an hour, if not more. I was able to confirm a few issues that are still in the latest version and he's already working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Amidala, while your idea cuts down on abuse there is a problem with it. The ammount of FFA servers would be around 20, and there would be "multiple duel" servers everywhere. If we had 20 active "real FFA" servers that would be about 15 more than we have now. Sure there are lots of so-called "FFA" servers now, but most are really chat-and-duel servers. Making a new gametype just recognizes that reality and eliminates the confusion and false-advertising caused by "honor" chat-and-duelers running so-called "FFA" servers that aren't actually "Free For All". It's a win-win solution with no downside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaSBuffy Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 i didnt read it all. but as soon as i saw ja+ and understood the amaltdim i suggested slider to make it server pickable.. which dimension u prefered default. In my oppinion ja+ is an awesome mod. Always been. That other admits completly abuse it is their problem. I think slider did an awesome job preventing people to abuse the features. I would say JA+ is near perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 I would say JA+ is severly flawed, but thats just my opinion. I think slider did an awesome job preventing people to abuse the features. I don't. It seems to me (correct me if I am wrong) he agrees with the admins who abuse, because they need to keep order on their servers. If he wanted to prevent them from abusing the features, he wouldn't have included them in the mod. That other admits completly abuse it is their problem. No, its not their problem when it disrupts my gameplay. They are perfectly fine with slapping me around the map. I am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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