What do you think about the U.S.A. ?

[stingerhs]

Reaction of stingerhs when he heard about the word nationalism: , Oh yeah nationalism=patriotism.Vladimir-Vlada's reaction: yeah right!

nationalism- http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nationalism

PROOF? You don't need anymore proof once you watch Micahel Moore's documentaries.

and considering Micheal Moore's extreme bias towards left-wing policies, many people definately do not consider Micheal Moore's opinions as valid. if you want to persuade me, you will definately have to come up with some rock-solid proof as in mulitple University studies that come to the same conclusion. conspiracy theory isn't going to get you anywhere in a debate.

All right here's my definition: Fascism is a political opinion where all the things and decisions should be in the hands of the goverment: food, health, military, civilian everything I mean EVERYTHING, political parties are banned and so on.

then maybe you should take a much closer look at the American structure. both food and healthcare are regulated by the government, not controlled by it. unlike fascism, the US economy is largely capitalist in nature. the government observes and regulates it, and it is controlled by the concept of supply and demand.

I believe that nationalism goes to discrimination to nazism to fascism.

then your belief structure is way off balance. even communism supports nationalism, so this is definately way too far fetched.

Then we should start taking action aginst America's military, economy, constitution and goverment

what for?? i can completely understand the military objections. i can also somewhat see where you're going with the economy, but the Constitution and the Government???

 

well, i can also come straight from you're own viewpoint: what right does the rest of the world have in the affairs of another independant country, reguardless of the government??? if the US doesn't have the right to do so, then nobody else has the right to do so to the US.

[Aristotélēsticus]

I was surprised to see that there are some great point of views in Europe and America for we thought that you are far away from the events here (in the Middle East I mean). Well I am from Syria and i am proud of being syrian and i think that its very normal to feel proud of having any nationality in the world if it's your real one, another thing : everyone consider his country to be the best to live in not just the americans...and I have some points I would like to explain for I am as a Syrian in a great threat because of the American policy as everyone says that my country in next on Bush's agenda, so this is the points I want to clear:

 

we don’t hate the Americans for you cant judge people by their government, we hate the government of America for what they've done…there are a lot of Syrians work in America and married to American women and men, even I had some American friends, so we don’t hate you guys….we all felt sorry for 11/9 terrorist attack and there were some Arabs (including Syrians) who died in this attacks, and we are here know the meaning of terrorist attacks coz we've been through it when an Islamic organization similar to Alqaeda began its war against Syrian government and killed both Muslims and Christians before we manage to finish this terrorists…so we stand against Ben Laden and his organization and we know that they are representing a threat to all of us, but the question here is, who made this organization and provide them with weapons and other supplies? It’s the USA government it self, they aid them in their fight against the Soviet Union and then they turn against America when the SU falls apart so the USA government began its war against terrorism, but did they finish their threat? No they are still organized and even the mightiest power on earth right now couldn't stop them or even captured their leader who shows every time Bush has a problems like in the election (I call that direct reason for winning the election …well I am not with Iraq war for I think that the USA government misjudge the situation there, we don’t hear about the nuclear missiles so they were manipulating us for another reason (do I hear the word OIL?).

So the Iraqis do not like the American troops because they invaded their land not to help them as they say but just because of economic and strategic reasons so they respond by killing them, so if we put our selves in the other side (the Iraqis I mean) how would you deal with the American troops if you were Iraqis? For example if someone asks you to give him the sunglasses you like and you refuse so he took it from you with violence, how would you respond to this offensive treatment?...well for me I will attack him as he did to me and return my sunglasses…well that if he took my sunglasses so what if he took my land?.......thus I think that the situation in Iraq is natural for what the American government did to conquer Iraq, maybe you didn’t saw the whole picture in your countries but we did saw children, women, and elders burn and die in the war and if we can find an excuse for the Americans for coming to Iraq, I think that it's easier to find many excuses for those who had their families died and their land's taken, it's much easier to find an excuse for what they've done until now….i'm not with the 2 sides but I'm trying to understand why they are acting like this….

[jblue789]

Nationalism = patriotism. To aid Stinger's point.

 

http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=nationalism

 

Synonyms: bellicism, fanatical patriotism, jingoism, nationalism

[lukeiamyourdad]

Yeah...too bad they managed to screw up the sympathy they got from 9/11.

That day, I think anyone in the world would've taken a bullet for an american.

 

Look where we are now. More people hate America then there ever was.

[Xenocidal]

im just glad that Bush has no reason to invade Canada (yet?). and to the person that said something involving my post and bloodlust, i didnt mean i was going postal,just that bush needs to stop his bloodlust and learn to read (i had to say that sry). and bush did start al-quaeda, something about a anti-russian or someone plan that involved them. And O.J. didnt do it (j/k).

[The Hidden One]

Than that means you believe it is right to kill innocent people.

 

Well Vladimer-Vlada or whatever it is, this is a war people die in war. I'm not saying I don't have grief it's just that if Saddam and Bin Laden aren't caught (even though Saddam already has been) thousands, maybe even millions more could be killed!

So I'm not saying this to bash you I'm just saying this to make you a little more open minded.

[Xenocidal]

people die in war, your right on that. But Bush placed Saddam in power an funded Osama and gave them both weapons. That is what could have been avoided.

[jblue789]

Uh, what? Saddam was "president" of Iraq before Bush joined in the campaign. And he didn't even think about attacking Iraq until he was informed about the oil deposits and that Iraqis were Muslims, and since Bush is an idiot and probably doesn't know what a Muslim really is, used that as just one of the disguises (thought it was dropped later) for the Iraqi war. Or something like that. Anyways, Bush is a fairly not good president, and trigger happy indeed, but he's not evil like how you portray him. If anyone set all that up, it would be Cheney. Bush is the lesser of two evils... much less.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

It's what's known as political propaganda, and Moore himself admitted he made the "movie" for the sole purpose to stop Bush's re-election..

 

All right I changed my mind the second I read this sentence (saying this a little dissapointed in Michael Moore:( ) But don't worry you'll get proof I asure you, Bush is going DOWN BABY!

 

People like Michael Moore don't improve the situation, only furthering the misconceptions ( proven; Vladimir-Vlada).

I just said I changed my mind (still a little dissapointed in Micahael Moore:( )

 

nationalism- http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nationalism

 

Sorry, wrong word!

 

if you want to persuade me, you will definately have to come up with some rock-solid proof as in mulitple University studies that come to the same conclusion. conspiracy theory isn't going to get you anywhere in a debate.

I'll get proof don't worry.

 

both food and healthcare are regulated by the government, not controlled by it.

Regulation and control are in many cases the same thing.

 

unlike fascism, the US economy is largely capitalist in nature.

WORD OF WARNING: I HATE CAPITALISM!!!!!!! [People: ]

 

then your belief structure is way off balance. even communism supports nationalism, so this is definately way too far fetched.

That was different ... in a way (I hope:( )

 

what for?? i can completely understand the military objections. i can also somewhat see where you're going with the economy, but the Constitution and the Government???

The Constitution thing slipped out of my mouth didn't mean to say it sorry:( . The Goverment thing stays! .

 

if the US doesn't have the right to do so, then nobody else has the right to do so to the US.

Todays poor countries would strive for revenge against the LEADERS, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY: The leaders are almost always the guilty ones. (It's a thing C.SKYE doesn't believe in )

 

we don’t hate the Americans for you cant judge people by their government,

Yet again I say : I don't judge people by their goverments.

 

we all felt sorry for 11/9 terrorist attack and there were some Arabs (including Syrians) who died in this attacks, and we are here know the meaning of terrorist attacks coz we've been through it when an Islamic organization similar to Alqaeda began its war against Syrian government and killed both Muslims and Christians before we manage to finish this terrorists…so we stand against Ben Laden and his organization and we know that they are representing a threat to all of us, but the question here is, who made this organization and provide them with weapons and other supplies?

I don't support Alqaeda and my remorse to the widows, children and people who died in the attack of both Syria and 9/11. (But still I bet someone is planning to bomb us right now and isn't going to feel sorry when he/she does it).

 

bush did start al-quaeda, something about a anti-russian or someone plan that involved them.

That's also one of the reasons I don't like Alquaeda and hate Bush.

 

Well Vladimer-Vlada or whatever it is, this is a war people die in war.

You consider everything a war don't you (It's VLADIMIR, with and I not a E) my full name is Vladimir, my nickname is Vlada, ok?

 

I don't have grief it's just that if Saddam and Bin Laden aren't caught (even though Saddam already has been) thousands, maybe even millions more could be killed!

 

I'll say it again: I don't support Bin Laden, I also think he should be captured (for the fall of U.S.S.R, 9/11 and all other terrorist attacks) P.S. Saddam is not a monster.

[The Hidden One]

Then what is he, a loving and caring father?

[Drazin]

Bush didnt start Al-Quaeda. Atleast not Dubya. That started during the Regan Administration. Remember Rambo 3?

And if it wasn't for the US's interest in other nations, UK wouldn't have their Badass SAS teams. They can Thank the CIA for their tech and training.

 

Bush also did not put Saddam into power. Next thing people will say that Bush put Fidel Castro in power. Just not true.

 

He isn't as bad a president as people make him out to be. Could you imagine if GORE was president during 9/11? We'd be kissing Osama's butt and giving them more money as a token of our sympathy for them hating us. Atleast Bush isn't afraid to kick some butt. Everyone saw what happened when we went to Iraq, Other countries that "Might" be trying to develope Nuclear technology said, "Hey! All you UN guys, Come and look, we don't want any trouble!" (AKA Lybia)

 

And you cannot condemn the US for everything either, The Brits came ready for action from the word go and even provided us with alot of Intel that didnt seem to turn out the way we thought. Canada was even in the Gulf with their Gunships arresting smugglers trying to provide Iraq with supplies. I believe Rumsfeld said, "What? Canada has a warships? Does Canada know this?" Because No one expected the Maple leaf to show up. Even Japan, who is not allowed to have a military power offered all the aid they could. Japan has one of the largest Police forces in the world, but could only lend like 50,000 officers to the fight because of the ww2 treaty deal.

 

So really, it wasn't just America's fight. Everyone had an interest, even Spain. And those that didn't, probably had underhanded reasons why. ($$$) I wont name names, but the only war they won was a revolution against themselves.

[stingerhs]

let me stress a point: i do not hate President Bush. i simply do not support a lot of the policies he stands behind. and i think this is an attitude that you people need to start taking in this thread. hating a man's actions is one thing, but hating the man himself is an entirely different matter.

 

let me also stress some points about President Bush: the man has been in office since the year 2000. Bush wasn't even in politics whenever Saddam Hussein took power in Iraq back in the late 1970's. the same can be said about how Al-Quaeda: President Bush was not in power. so quit blaming President Bush for starting the problems.

 

now to debate a couple of points mentioned earlier:

Regulation and control are in many cases the same thing.

the regulation part is actually much more leftist policy than you seem to think. true fascism (extreme right) supports complete Laissez-faire economic policy where the government has no involvement in the economy. socialism (or communism, whatever you choose to call it) actually fits more inline with the economic control that you seem to despise. in fact, the entire basis of socialism, or communism, is where the working class has complete control over the economy. i'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you do seem to have things a bit mixed up in your views of political alignment.

 

in this case, the US economy is much more moderate. although the economy is based on letting things play out according to the markets (right-wing policy), it is also regulated to ensure fairness and some degree of equality (left-wing policy). and yes, i do agree that pure capitolism (Laissez-faire policy) is a bad thing. to be honest, i tend to view the way the American economy is run as fairly positive with a couple of exceptions (which i won't list).

The Constitution thing slipped out of my mouth didn't mean to say it sorry . The Goverment thing stays!

why?? you have yet to post exactly why you hate the US government but not the Constitution. and, if you do decide to post why, please do so with definative proof or documentation to back it up. otherwise, its nothing more than conspiracy theory on your part.

P.S. Saddam is not a monster.

i sincerely hope that you did not really intend that to be in your post.

[90SK]

Todays poor countries would strive for revenge against the LEADERS

 

;)Or course they would. Impoverished countries, as well as more fortunate places in this world, balme most of their problems on their leaders. Leaders often are the root of the problem, but only in cases where the figurehead of the country is in immidiate control. Bush is a figurehead, but his control is limited. He is mainly a puppet for Chaney and the rest, like jblue789 mentioned.

 

P.S. Saddam is not a monster.

 

Tell that to the 400,000 casualties to Saddam's dictatorship, and the countless soldiers who see what Saddam wrought during his rule. The farmers who's water was diverted from their crops so Saddam could have a vast "lake" outside one of his palaces. Those who's loved ones died because of medical supplies withheld by the government.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Drazin

I am a product of typical American public schools. I have never left the country and have the slightest clue as to what the rest of the world really looks like. I think England looks like a Braveheart movie and it amazes me when I meet someone from there online because I guess I see the rest of the world as tiny, dirty people huddled together in thatch roofed huts who couldnt possibly have the technology to get Online.

 

I do not think I am better than anyone else mind you, I just feel like the rest of the world looks up to America and is either so enamored with us that they try to emulate us, or become so jealous of what we have that they hate us for what they lack.

 

Originally posted by Drazin

Canada was even in the Gulf with their Gunships arresting smugglers trying to provide Iraq with supplies. I believe Rumsfeld said, "What? Canada has a warships? Does Canada know this?"

Well then, I think I speak for many Canadians to Rumsfeld and his ignorance when I say a big hearty "**** YOU!"

 

Good thing you have a guy who's that misinformed making so many decisions...

 

 

 

 

 

Awe see? Now you guys dragged me into this!

[The Hidden One]

And doesn't it seem that the more money we give to countries in need the more they hate us because their goverment used it for something wrong(Afghanistan, they got more people their that burn flags than can be kiced in the ***!)

[Prime]

You guys knew this was going to happen sooner or later...