McCusto Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 The Thrawn Trilogy is the offfical continuation of the Star Wars Saga. Book One - Heir to the Empire - Episode 7 Book Two - Dark Force Rising - Episode 8 Book Three - The Last Command - Episode 9 What did you like/not like about the books? For those who haven't read the books, I would recommend them, they are very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Whoa ! * * * Firstly, McCusto no need to make multiple posts.... you could have combined your 'points' in one post.... I would say nearly everyone that comes here has read the TTT(The Thrawn Trilogy), but for the benefit of those who havent, I will keep the poll and relevant discussion open I usually encourage the posting of reviews, but for recently released titles only. Because TTT was released 14 years ago I am replacing your summaries with links to some reviews at TFN. For those interested, there is also excellent info at the official site of course Secondly, the Thrawn Trilogy, as fun as they are, are NOT, I repeat NOT, the "Official Continuation" of the Trilogy... Please also consider that they are set 9 years after ROTJ.. where would you fit in Truce at Bakura depicts events starting *the day after* the end of ROTJ ?? The Thrawn Trilogy are EU novels, sitting somewhere in the C-level canon. The series did leave us with some highly memorable charactere, like Mara Jade, Thrawn, and Talon Karrde *performs surgery on thread to keep it alive* carry on mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 Please also consider that they are set 9 years after ROTJ.. Dont you mean 9 years after ANH? Or 5 years after ROTJ? I loved TTT. I think it is amongst the best the EU has to offer (behind only HoT and X-Wing 1-4). Also, Zahn is my favorite author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin Dont you mean 9 years after ANH? Or 5 years after ROTJ? yes. thats right ! I gotta check my timelines Zahn will finish his 'septology' later this year when "Outbound Flight" is released. I am trying to read "Labryrinthe of Evil" atm so havent even gotten around to "Surviviors Quest" yet, even though I have it I value Zahns contribution to EU, but his writing style definitely has its weak points. A great writer of action sequences, but so is Allston and Stackpole... As far characterisations, Zahn is a flop...writers like Stover and Luceno make a mockery of his comic book style characterisations... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 I value Zahns contribution to EU, but his writing style definitely has its weak points. A great writer of action sequences, but so is Allston and Stackpole... As far characterisations, Zahn is a flop...writers like Stover and Luceno make a mockery of his comic book style characterisations... Perhaps, but what I primarily enjoy about Zahn's writing, is that he can make a really good plot. Take HoT, for example. The story split so we were following many characters, doing different things in different places; yet it was easy to follow, it all came together nicely in the end, and it was all relevant and meaningful. That is the main reason why VoF is still my favorite book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin Perhaps, but what I primarily enjoy about Zahn's writing, is that he can make a really good plot. Take HoT, for example. The story split so we were following many characters, doing different things in different places; yet it was easy to follow, it all came together nicely in the end, and it was all relevant and meaningful. That is the main reason why VoF is still my favorite book. Yeah, in VoTF I definitely got a sense that the EU of old was starting to evolve.... It really did set the scene for what was to follow...namely the NJO If it wasnt for VoTF it is quite possible that SW EU would be stuck in a rut of mad former imperials, dark jedi or superweapon storylines for all eternity Ive told this before but I'll tell it again . ... I actually met Tim Zahn and Mike Stackpole. They were here in Australia for a convention, though I saw them at a booksigning Zahn signed my Heir to the Empire comic and Stackpole signed my copy of I, Jedi w00t ! those are both still at my parents place now I think about it ! I mainly spoke to them about what they did for the CCG, though did brownnose that Jade and Corran are the most memorable characters in EU IMO Zahn did say something about getting lost when driving around in Tasmania, but I cant remember it now, twas a while ago mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 It has been years since I read these, but I remember enjoying them. But I suspect that a lot now conflicts with newer continuity since they were written before the prequels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by Prime It has been years since I read these, but I remember enjoying them. But I suspect that a lot now conflicts with newer continuity since they were written before the prequels... well IIRC the cloning facility described in TTT(Mt Tantiss??) was never meant to be where the clones of the Republic where produced.... It was a secret area for production of those special type of stormtroopers, their names escape me now in EU. it is established that Carida is the place where most stormtroopers come from. There still seems to be clones in the system, but alot of the later stormies were 'real' ppl, for want of a better word perhaps ? Carida of course went the way of the dodo when kyp threw it into the sun mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ah the thrawn trilogy - an elegant series for a more civilized time... before the dark times, before the NJO. they were the first star wars books i read, and they're still among my favourites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by Sivy ah the thrawn trilogy - an elegant series for a more civilized time... before the dark times, before the NJO. they were the first star wars books i read, and they're still among my favourites. heh....the only memorable part of the Thrawn Trilogy was this (as depicted in the comic adaptation) : mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I remember buying all three books as a set and reading them back to back one summer vacation. For me the best thing about TTT (that's what people are calling it these days!) was the novelty of reading a set of "new" Star Wars adventures. It was my (and most people's) introduction to the EU. It was the first "new" adventure since ROTJ. There were a lot of references to the classic trilogy (people spouting the same lines from the movies, similar situations, etc), which were corny, but cool because they reminded us of how much we liked the OT. Some of the things were bad, like the stereotyping of the main characters (don't they ever grow and develop?), and some of the plot gimmicks that became overused. Thrawn, the unbeatable alien "Grand Admiral" that we conveniently never heard of, who's an art critic and military genius, "lady vader," Obi-Wan has to go away "forever," hot chocolate, Wookiee speech impediments, Force Proof furry lizards, mad clones with extra vowels in their names, etc. Zahn tried to make Leia start out on the road to being a Jedi but subsequent authors pretty much forgot about it. Some of the cool throw away ideas he came up with then grow into brain bugs in the later books. The renegade upstart generals/admirals, the clones, the lost dark/jedi, Lando's ridiculous money-making schemes, lost super weapons. He also started the proud tradition of casting new characters in the mould of old ones that have to "one up" and/or rescue the helpless OT characters. It was a fun ride at the time that I read them, but little did I know it was the beginning of the end for my love affair with the EU novels... At the time the books seemed cool, but I couldn't imagine them as honest-to-goodness Star Wars movies that I'd pay actual money to see. Not sure how I'd feel about re-reading them after all this time. I'm not sure I'd enjoy them as much simply because of the time displacement and how much has happened since then both in my own life and in the Star Wars franchise itself. A lot of those ideas seemed fresh and original compared to some of what's come since. Oh well, I'm just rambling now. As an introduction to the EU it's not a bad series, if you go in with few preconceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abespam Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 the thrawn trilogy (as well as the hand of thrawn duology) set up Grand Admiral Thrawn as my favourite imperial. One wonders what would have happened during NJO if he was around. The books have the first intro. between Mara and Luke which is well written and has been used so well to create the Mara character in the EU. All around one of the better books in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Kismet Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 As horrible as this may sound, I have yet to read either the Trilogy or the Duology, but by the end of the year, I plan to attempt to get all the Thrawn books, NJO, Jedi Academy, and anything anyone can recommend. Please PM me with more books I need to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Originally posted by Darth_Kismet As horrible as this may sound, I have yet to read either the Trilogy or the Duology, but by the end of the year, I plan to attempt to get all the Thrawn books, NJO, Jedi Academy, and anything anyone can recommend. Please PM me with more books I need to read. ah kismet. Thats a Turkish word you know ! (I am Turkish myself, thats how I know ) If you read the books/comix Ive listed above you *wont* be disappointed ! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The first "EU" I ever read was Splinter Of The Mind's Eye In the early 90's when I was re-kindling my faith in Star Wars, I bought and read all three books, based on the advice of a good freind of mine. I loved them. They had the fast pace story telling of any given Star Wars movie, but what works SO well about those books, is the way they make NEW characters appear so strong, like they could have almost been in any of the movies. I have YET to see any EU book capture that feeling again. Seriously, Jorus C'Baoth, Thrawn, Mara, and even Talon Karrde seem as real to me as ANY other Star Wars character. I never read any EU book that captured the pace and feel of those books ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Originally posted by Darth Groovy ...In the early 90's... I never read any EU book that captured the pace and feel of those books ever again. TTT was fun, and yes , Karrde/Jade/Thrawn are cool characters, but have a re-read and see if you dont have a giggle They are remarkably dated. Star by Star, those who read it will agree, is absolutely epic in many ways.... It makes Zahns double letter clones look ridiculous... OMG ...IT Luuke and Joruus and Aastrooo mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I still love them. I loved them when I read them one summer when a neighbor lent them to me; he knew I liked reading. And I've been hooked ever since. But even I, a fairly strong Zahn fan, will admit that TTT in particular is, as Astro put it, very dated. And yet, at the same time, not - because he started this whole thing, and he couldn't possibly have gotten away with doing the kinds of things Luceno and Stover do. They can be as good as they are because Zahn set the stage for it. They have the freedom to play with the characters because Zahn, along with Stackpole, Allston, and Anderson (you want "corny" read HIS novels, esp. the Jedi Academy trilogy!) created a large enough base that the more unusual ideas and stories and character growth is allowed by the fan base. Of course, the Keraalys and Kuurgan and Aastrotoy thing is pretty silly, and the continuity problems. Gah! *bangs head into wall repeatedly* For a continuity nerd like me, it's quite the headache. I can't imagine what it's like for guys like Nate Butler, who make me look really, really mild in my obsession. Much less Leland Chee and the others who figue out what's official and not. Blech. Not that I blame Zahn for the continuity problems with the Clone Wars; that's Lucas' fault, but the other stuff... Mind you, his later works, particularly the HoT duology, were very well done. I can't say as I enjoyed Survivor's Quest as much as the HoT, but then, it was a very different kind of story. And, of course, it created continuity problems of its own, something that HoT thankfully avoided, at least in general. HoT remains one of my favorite pieces of SW lit, even after having read the NJO's brilliant works like SbS, Traitor, and TUF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Thrawn Trilogy isn't official continuation of anything and you're talking nonsense. George Lucas didn't care about TT at all, and stated that Dark Empire comics are the closest thing to his supposed Episodes VII-IX - hell he even gave free issues of Dark Empire comics to his employees - a thing that never happened before and afterwards! During writing of TT Zahn didn't receive any advice from GL although later he created a myth that GL participated in TT's creation. For those who are naive enough to believe in GL's participation: Zahn met GL first in summer of 1992 for just ten minutes and in that time Last Command was almost finished... and production of TT began in 1990! Despite that GL forbidden exploring Clone Wars Era (as a field for his prequels) Zahn annoyingly enters this field with his own lame ideas like dreadnoughts, outbound flights and even own chronology of the Clone Wars. Fortunately GL today ignored Zahn and our scribbler looks outdated GL participated in creation of Tales of the Jedi and SOTE but he didn't give a sh... about crappy TT. As for argument that without Zahn wouldn't be EU today it is complete bullsh.. after 1983 interest in Star Wars faded and it was WEG that revived that interest in 1987! They created EU with tons of RPG material and exciting adventures and ideas. They set fundaments for later books series. And in 1990 Lucasfilm appointed several writers to write several books - Timothy Zahn, Kathy Tyers, Kevin Anderson, Kenneth Flynt (his book wasn't published) and dave Wolverton. Zahn was only a part of greater scheme I would say. It wasn't that his success open way to other writers. Other writers's books were already underway when TT appeared on the bookshelves. So EU wouldn't exist without pionieers from WEG but it could exist quite well without Zahn. Thrawn Trilogy isn't just epic enough to be considered ep-7-9. It is certain that GL would use new heroes and new setting instead of constant rebel-imperial biting in case of making new movies. Besides GL praised Dark Empire as a closest thing to ep7-9 and he knows best not you. My opinion about Thrawn Trilogy isn't very positive. It is a pompous piece of scribblery that uses very simple language and presents a gallery of cliched characters. Just perfect for 12+ age teenagers. But no one will even think to compare it to classical sci-fi masterpieces like Dune or Saga of Seven Suns. Maybe in early 1990s it was something exciting (it was the only star wars book) but today we have dozens of novels that simply own Zahn. There is also one thing that makes TT insignificant: lack of jedi business. Zahn doesn't understand the nature of the Force and lay emphasis on technology instead. His cloned Jedi Joruus shows clearly that Zahn's talent in showing the Jedi is poor. Ep7-9 were intented to show Luke as a master and rebirth of the Jedi Order. Dark Empire and Jedi Academy Trilogy show Luke and the beginnings of the New Order and they are just more important to the star wars mythos than some blue admiral and problems of a redhead psycho-chick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 heh, funny, someone who dislikes Zahn more than I do Nur Ab Sal, do you have any references about GL and his deference/distribution of Dark Empire ?? where did you read that ?? mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I read about it first on Obsidian Forum and second on TheForce.Net Literature Thread. It was mentioned by two different users so I believed in it. Check this here BTW I'd like to say hi to everyone here! Where are manners ouw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Originally posted by Nur Ab Sal I read about it first on Obsidian Forum and second on TheForce.Net Literature Thread. It was mentioned by two different users so I believed in it. Check this here BTW I'd like to say hi to everyone here! Where are manners ouw... Indeed sir, Welcome to the EU forums How did you find your way to this murky corner of the galaxy ?? anywayz, have fun and feel free to have a go at the trivia threads mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Thanx! Never thought that mods can be cool! I was surfing through Lucasforums when discovered your wretched corner:D . And since I like EU quite... I came to Lucasforums becouse I am a giant KOTOR fan and here is the HQ of KOTOR modding community that made that game even more interesting. I want to start making my own mods in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Originally posted by Nur Ab Sal Thanx! Never thought that mods can be cool! I was surfing through Lucasforums when discovered your wretched corner:D . And since I like EU quite... I came to Lucasforums becouse I am a giant KOTOR fan and here is the HQ of KOTOR modding community that made that game even more interesting. I want to start making my own mods in the future. yes. there are 2 cool mods in existence....I am one of them sivy is also cool, but you wont see him much, except at the spoilers forum or in posts about Batman yeah, I love KOTOR too, those Holowan pplz are pretty talented, the things they come up with mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Well of course whether or not Lucas personally likes or visibly supported some piece of EU material has no bearing on its "canonicity" by itself. See the usual Canon fluff piece explaining it all. I'm sure of the stuff he's read he has some favorites, but that's just like your or me having favorites... I mean I'm sure Lucas loves the character of Jar Jar Binks, and yet many fans hate him. But he's still Canon, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 While I'll be more than happy to disagree with you... I extend you a cordial welcome to this lovely forum, home of nerdy book-lovers and comic-book readers in, well, rather small supply. Mods around here... don't believe what they tell you about being cool. Especially that Astro character. He likes to set new forumaters up, then come smashing down on them with brutal and gleeful demonstrations of his power. Something like a Dark Lord of the Sith. Seriously, enjoy your stay, and stay away from the JK forums, for fear of losing your garments. Especially avoid Rhett if you go into the Swamp. Now, back to arguing with you. Zahn didn't precisely explore the Clone Wars - but the saga and the universe needed to be fleshed out, and he did what he could while respecting those rules. I'll be the first to admit that he has a tendency to do his own thing... but then, he has something of a talent for doing it and for getting away with it. And, while other books may have been already in the works and the EU admittedly owes much to WEG, it's difficult if not impossible to argue against the effect of the TT in terms of its impact on the public. Certainly The Truce at Bakura, The Courtship of Princess Leia, and other novels were already on their way, but I've never liked any of them so well as the original TT - and it's not just nostalgia, either. He managed to do a very good job of capturing the, as you put it, "cliched characters" that populated the OT. Go rewatch the movies. It's hard to find anyone except perhaps Vader who isn't a cliched character - the evil mastermind, the rogue, the sassy princess, the heroic farmboy, the loyal sidekick of the rogue, the comic relief sidekicks to the hero... need I go on? TTT was what people wanted at that point. Now, people want something more, but for its time TTT was very good... not very good in terms of literature, but in terms of its relation to the universe as it existed then. Ultimately, it was not the WEG or any of the other RPG materials under other groups that launched the saga: it was the books. The RPG material then was and still is supplemental to the books and/or important to a much smaller group of fans than those who read the novels. Indeed, I only rarely pick up a supplement, though I've read probably 98% of the adult novels, and a number of the comics. The EU wouldn't be what it is today with the WEG RPG, to be sure... but it wouldn't be so lost as it would without TTT. And your comment about "reusing the Imperials over and over" or something to that effect really can't be directed at Zahn. First, Zahn never intended to write Episodes VII-IX, contrary to popular myth. Second, the reusing of the Imperials came out of people trying (usually unsuccesfully) to imitate what Zahn had achieved because of their own lack of creativity. And Zahn may have unintentionally helped start that, but he also helped end it. I'm curious to see your rebuttal, as I'm sure one will be headed my way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.