PC For KotOR III?

[lukeiamyourdad]

His padawans would grow in power and so he would regain much more too. Even without Kreia, it would not explain why the Exile would start at lvl 1 with a single Force power. The Exile would have to start pretty powerful with already a wide array of Force powers.

Also, there's a VP problem. What would explain the Exile starting at 50 VP when he could have close to 500? He started to eat a lot of junk food? This was also an inconsistency problem with T3 starting at lvl 3.

 

This is not going to turn into some debate where positions are inflexible. If there can be a good and valid reason why the Exile could be K3's PC, then I'll consider it. Right now, it's near undoable, wouldn't make much sense story wise and you're stuck with an inconsistency problem with your main character. Besides, you try to come up with new arguments with the assurance that either through the number of good arguments you have or their quality will make the opposition bend. That's the fun of it.

Of course, it can be "just" opinions but we're not debating about whether or not we want something but whether or not what we want is possible (whoa I just confused myself there).

[Commas]

well, i'd like for K3 to start roughly right where K2 ends, not enought time for any padawans that may or may not be with the exile to really get much stronger than they were in K2. if a few years has passed since the end of K2, i could imagine them stronger, but the state the are at the end of K2 would not be enough, and thats considering the exile would bring them along, which i dont think he will. like i said, i think kreia planned it like that, to leave the exile stranded in the unknown region without the force.

 

i always just always chalked that up to T3 being really badly damaged. but remember they also did the same thing with

canderous, it didn't really matter how much you leveled him or how much vp he had he had in K1, when mandalore joins the party he's a level 6 soildier, having to relearn exactly the same feats you taught him in K1. if anything canderous has only become more powerful since the end of K1, hes freakin mandalore now.

but now one ever seemed to care to much about that, while its a pretty big inconsistancy between K1 and K2, no one ever really notices it.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Oh I noticed it.

Refer to D333's earlier post. He got crippled by Revan. Also, if you talk to him, he says that he's getting older and has to rely a lot on his armor and his implants. It does provide a certain explanation of why he would be weaker. He's no Jedi, he can't pull a Yoda or a Palpatine.

[Mira Dona]

I think it should be a new character. After all, that is one of the elements which has been so enjoyable for the first two games. So why "fix" what isn't broken?

 

Having a new character is the best way to maintain that element and allow for the inclusion of the first two characters that everyone has come to love. Sure their stories are as of yet unresolved, but wouldn't it make for a more engaging player experiance to help Revan and the Exile finish those stories while looking at things through their own perspective?

 

You AGAIN get to chose your own alignment greating a new hero or villian male or female. Think of all the different scenarios that would come, LS Revan, DS Exile, or vise versa, perhaps both DS or both LS with varied gender match ups in conjunction with your new character. The replay value of those things alone would make for a great game experiance considereing all the various options and changes that could occur.

[Commas]

hes only crippled if your revan was DS, mine was LS, and still why would he forget how to do a master flurry or a rapid shot. he hasn't lost the knowledge, he hasn't even really lost the ability like the exile would in the force, as you can teach him those feats again. so while they did give some explaination to why he went from level 20 to level 6, it doesnt really explain why he can go from level 6 to level 36. basically they worked with what they had, they wanted him back in the game, so the needed a reason why he could be such a low level and they made one. i think they did the same with the exile, but instead of having to make some weird tacked on explaination in K3 they thought ahead and introduced a concept that would allow them to start fresh in K3 with the same character. when you think about it, it seems just a tad convenient that he gets his force from his friends, but at the end of the game he is supposed to be leaving without them, his only source of the force (hehe i made a rhyme )

[Darth Havok]

Darth, Remember when you see carth, and he asks you to find out what happened to reven? Well, in the final encounter with Sion, you can ask him about revan, and he will tell you that revan is dead. Im pretty sure. Check it out

[Jeff]

Darth, Remember when you see carth, and he asks you to find out what happened to reven? Well, in the final encounter with Sion, you can ask him about revan, and he will tell you that revan is dead. Im pretty sure. Check it out

Thats what he says, but who knows better, Kreia, a Sith Lord, or Carth? Clearly Kreia would know if he was dead or not.

[lukeiamyourdad]

i think they did the same with the exile, but instead of having to make some weird tacked on explaination in K3 they thought ahead and introduced a concept that would allow them to start fresh in K3 with the same character. when you think about it, it seems just a tad convenient that he gets his force from his friends, but at the end of the game he is supposed to be leaving without them, his only source of the force (hehe i made a rhyme )

 

I'm going to have to agree with you about Mandalore but here's something that's absolutely weird.

If he leaves his source of the Force, wouldn't it be pure suicide to go to the Unknown Regions, basically defenseless? The VP is still a problem as there can be no explanation as to why he'd start at lvl 1 with 50 VP. They surely didn't plan that.

Also, you can't really choose your alignment anymore can you? I mean, why are you grey at the start? You'd have to choose your alignment in the character creation screen. A tad forced.

But getting back to his source for Force power, it's such a central element of the game. It would sound weird that it's only so you can play as him in K3.

 

I think that if it does sound like a convenience, it would be more of a coincidence then anything else.

[IndianaSolo]

Having a new character is the best way to maintain that element and allow for the inclusion of the first two characters that everyone has come to love. Sure their stories are as of yet unresolved, but wouldn't it make for a more engaging player experiance to help Revan and the Exile finish those stories while looking at things through their own perspective?

 

It also makes it easier for the storyteller to write a story, and make it a good story. If he has to worry about taking into account everything that's happened in previous games for Revan or the Exile, the story is more "fixed" and he can't let his creative juices flow.

 

New characters mean that he can pretty much make up the entire backstory, and the reasons for why this character is in the position they find themselves.

[Commas]

I'm going to have to agree with you about Mandalore but here's something that's absolutely weird.

If he leaves his source of the Force, wouldn't it be pure suicide to go to the Unknown Regions, basically defenseless? The VP is still a problem as there can be no explanation as to why he'd start at lvl 1 with 50 VP. They surely didn't plan that.

Also, you can't really choose your alignment anymore can you? I mean, why are you grey at the start? You'd have to choose your alignment in the character creation screen. A tad forced.

But getting back to his source for Force power, it's such a central element of the game. It would sound weird that it's only so you can play as him in K3.

 

I think that if it does sound like a convenience, it would be more of a coincidence then anything else.

 

ok, i will concede the VP issue to you, but i think there is still room for alignment change. a jedi can fall to the darkside at anytime, and while its very hard to bring someone back from the darkside, its not impossible, revan returned to the light, juhani, bastila, Darth Vader, one of the most evil sith lords ever returned to the Light. i think that if the exile ended K2 as LS for example, having just reconnected with the force and then realizing that he was cut off from it all over again, but not realizing it would until after he had left his friends far behind and began to feel the effects of being cutoff once more would be so devestating he would hate Kreia for manipulating him one more time. He had just got it back, and she took it away from him, whats even worse, he fell for it, it could have been prevented by not listening to her. perhaps you wouldn't start the game as grey, but i never really understood why the exile started as grey in K2 in the first place. the lightside and the darkside are more than just what force powers you choose to use, its how you live your life, which is why canderous and hk and go-to are inherently dark despite not being force users. i would think that even tho he was exiled, he would have remained light/dark in his exile. even jolee who lived alone and did not associate himself with the jedi order for years and years still leaned toward the light a little bit. the exile's alignment would not nessisarly have to be set during character creation, it could be set the same way revan's alignment is in K2. at the beginning of the game there is a dialogue, where you would set revan's alignment and gender, and thru dialogue choices you could gain darkside/lightside points by the response you choose, the same way you would in any other dialogue. maybe you're exile wouldn't go all the way back to mastery, but you could continue him along the same alignment, and there is potential for him to fall, especially if the game desides to make light/dark choices more complex. K2 touched upon this a bit, with kreia saying helping others all the time may not always be best for them. but i want darkside points to be incredible subtle in K3. i want to gain them on accident when i think i'm doing the right thing, instead of being able to avoid them easily by just not choosing the obvious "give me money, and then i'll kill you" options.

 

one more thing that would bother me about a new character: we can pretty much count on the droids and the ebon hawk returning, am i to believe that this new guy who is going to get pulled into this adventure just happened to come into posession of the same ship and same driods again? i mean the return of the hawk in K2 was a stretch already, i'd rather not have to make that stretch again.

 

edit: oh my god thats long! i'd understand if no one wants to bother to read all that crap

[lukeiamyourdad]

but i think there is still room for alignment change. a jedi can fall to the darkside at anytime, and while its very hard to bring someone back from the darkside, its not impossible, revan returned to the light, juhani, bastila, Darth Vader, one of the most evil sith lords ever returned to the Light.

 

It took them quite a shock to return to the light. Revan lost his memory, Vader saw his son being crippled and Juhani was defeated in combat. Far from the simple things KotOR throws at you.

 

i think that if the exile ended K2 as LS for example, having just reconnected with the force and then realizing that he was cut off from it all over again, but not realizing it would until after he had left his friends far behind and began to feel the effects of being cutoff once more would be so devestating he would hate Kreia for manipulating him one more time. He had just got it back, and she took it away from him, whats even worse, he fell for it, it could have been prevented by not listening to her.

 

A possibility. Or he could do the Jedi thing and forgive her. But a viable possibility nonetheless.

 

perhaps you wouldn't start the game as grey, but i never really understood why the exile started as grey in K2 in the first place. the lightside and the darkside are more than just what force powers you choose to use, its how you live your life, which is why canderous and hk and go-to are inherently dark despite not being force users. i would think that even tho he was exiled, he would have remained light/dark in his exile. even jolee who lived alone and did not associate himself with the jedi order for years and years still leaned toward the light a little bit.

 

It was more a gameplay reason than anything else. Had he started as a lightsider, darksider would've had a hard time going dark while the opposite is also true. They left it so you could decide which side you'd lean too.

It is your character so you decide that. Since there's no indication of how the Exile was before the beginning of TSL, you cannot decide on a starting alignment. The compromise is therefore a grey alignment.

It will be quite different for K3 if the Exile is reintroduced since he has to start as either light or dark and you must decide at the beginning.

 

the exile's alignment would not nessisarly have to be set during character creation, it could be set the same way revan's alignment is in K2. at the beginning of the game there is a dialogue, where you would set revan's alignment and gender, and thru dialogue choices you could gain darkside/lightside points by the response you choose, the same way you would in any other dialogue. maybe you're exile wouldn't go all the way back to mastery, but you could continue him along the same alignment, and there is potential for him to fall, especially if the game desides to make light/dark choices more complex.

 

This will not be possible if facial differences between light or dark. For a second, you have the "grey" face and suddenly you zombie up? It would feel very forced.

The only way this could work would be through a dialogue between an NPC and somebody else.

Now we have T3 and HK who have the most chances of returning as NPCs (less chance that Canderous comes back though highly possible, but not as much as the droids). T3 can't talk and HK is a psychopath. Killing first, talking later. Don't know why he'd be in a conversation with a stranger either.

So that leaves you with a new NPC. Not a very good way to introduce a new character.

Or else, they decide to reuse another old NPC (yay diversity!)

 

K2 touched upon this a bit, with kreia saying helping others all the time may not always be best for them. but i want darkside points to be incredible subtle in K3.

 

Though a morally challenging situation is quite interesting, it's the thing that bothered me a bit with TSL being "Star Wars-y". Star Wars seperates the light and the dark quite clearly. Alec Guiness said something about liking Star Wars because those two opposites were so clearly defined. I don't want it to become so complex that light and dark are greatly blurred. It would be bad for the Star Wars experience.

 

i want to gain them on accident when i think i'm doing the right thing, instead of being able to avoid them easily by just not choosing the obvious "give me money, and then i'll kill you" options.

 

But would you get Dark Side points for trying to do the right thing? You wanted to do something good, but made a bad decision and made a mistake.

A mistake is not voluntarily made thus Dark Side points are not justified in such a situation.

See, that's blurring the lines.

 

 

one more thing that would bother me about a new character: we can pretty much count on the droids and the ebon hawk returning, am i to believe that this new guy who is going to get pulled into this adventure just happened to come into posession of the same ship and same driods again? i mean the return of the hawk in K2 was a stretch already, i'd rather not have to make that stretch again.

 

Yes. Afterall, Luke Skywalker somehow planned that R2 would end up on Jabba's Barge in order to give him his lightsaber. Things happen

Seriously though, it would not be that hard. It depends on what happens after the end of TSL. At the end of KotOR, Revan sent T3 back with the Ebon Hawk to accomplish some mission (perhaps finding the Exile but we'll never truly know) and wiped HK's memory.

Perhaps the same thing could happen again. T3 is sent on a mission by the Exile for some reason and HK accompanies him (or is diactivated and stored on board).

The Force works in weird ways though, it might be its will that you find the Hawk.

Remember though, if you actually play as the Exile, you'd have to start with two pretty strong droids at your side, considering he took them with him.

 

edit: oh my god thats long! i'd understand if no one wants to bother to read all that crap

 

Paragraphs help

[Commas]

ok, maybe accidentle dark side points blur the line too much, but kotor's darkside options have always been blatently obvious and utterly stupid. they always just consist of killing/threatening/demanding extra credits, and make me out to be more of a thug than what i consider a "sith lord" to be. when i played K2 darkside for the first time and was presented the option of choosing sith lord as a prestige class i really didnt feal i deserved such a title, i was a punk. my darkside character might as well have been a gammorean, he acted basically the same. but this is getting way off topic.

 

so anyway, i'm sorry about arguing with you for so long over this. i hope you don't mind, but i think i'm just going to be done. no offense, but i'm kinda tired of debating. nothing against you or anything, you are a great debater and made really great arguments, (seriously, i hope you don't think i'm a dick, i considered this just a freindly debate) but i've stated how i feel on it, and so have you, and i'm ok with us disagreeing. besides, i can be kinda stubborn . but basically i'm just kinda over it, ya know? i hope you understand. i can only do internet debates for so long, its probably just my ADD acting up in the end i'll buy whatever game they decide to make anyway, so it doesnt really matter. for the record when there were K2 discussions swirling around after K1 and everyone was like "god i really want the PC to be Revan again, it will suck if its not Revan" i was on the other side of the fence, i was the one who was rooting for there to be a new PC, as i didn't think Revan would work again as a PC. However, i enjoyed the exile's story far more than i enjoyed revan's, and while revan's story was wrapped up nicely with a bow, the exile's was left hanging and i felt like too much was left incomplete at the end of K2, and i wouldn't be voting for the exile if i didn't really believe it could be pulled off without too many leaps of faith. clearly you think that there are too many leaps of faith, this is just us having different opinions, and thats ok with me.

 

so, we cool? truce?

 

oh and sorry about the lack of paragraphs, sometimes i just type like i talk, ya know

[lukeiamyourdad]

Alright were good

 

I don't think low of you, on the contrary. You stood your ground a lot longer and didn't turn it into a flame war.

I'm getting tired of it myself.

 

Oh well.

[Mira Dona]

It also makes it easier for the storyteller to write a story, and make it a good story. If he has to worry about taking into account everything that's happened in previous games for Revan or the Exile, the story is more "fixed" and he can't let his creative juices flow.

 

Thats both true and not so much. I think you are forgetting that a story for the Exile and Revan will most likely have to be written anyway in order to explain what they have been up to or what they are suspected of having been up too since niether story is finished. So knowledge of the previous stories (light and dark) is a nessescity (wow I KNOW I spelled that wrong). While the new writers could omit such a thing, I don't think they will since it would upset a lot of fans from the first two games.

 

However you are right in that they will have more free riegn with a whole new PC, and I think in the end that that will make it much easier for the writers to deliver a good (hopfully great) story.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

I would vote for both, but I would really like:

 

REVAN!

Who do we like? Revan!

Who do we love? Revan!

Who is the best? REVAN!

 

:D

[FiEND_138]

Sorry if any of this has already been stated, I just skimmed the thread.....

 

A new character.

 

The whining that goes on with the previous 2 games about ease with higher levels, can you imagine the bitching that would happen if you could force storm everything in your path from the opening level?

 

& personaly, I don't want anymore of these memory wipes, lost connection to the force stories. Just want to start out as a fresh level 1 Padawan.

[Snafu7]

I hope that we get to start with a new character, otherwise it just wouldn't seem like a KotOR game, but I do hope that either Revan or the Exile or both are included in the next game, whether they be in your party, or as a regular NPC.

[Darth333]

I doubt you will even meet with Revan or the Exile in k3: since the player could chose the sex and the appearance in K1 and k2, defining that would kill the game for many of us. While Revan's appearance would not be too much of a problem the voice would be... However, I believe you will hear of them a lot.

[Achilles]

I doubt you will even meet with Revan or the Exile in k3: since the player could chose the sex and the appearance in K1 and k2, defining that would kill the game for many of us. While Revan's appearance would not be too much of a problem the voice would be... However, I believe you will hear of them a lot.

I think that we will hear from them quite a bit via previous party members, datapads, etc. I will be surprised if we are not contacted by Kreia through the Force at least once.

[Mira Dona]

I think that we will hear from them quite a bit via previous party members, datapads, etc. I will be surprised if we are not contacted by Kreia through the Force at least once.

 

What about for Revan Darksiders? There's not a whole lot of memebers to go around in that instance. . .

 

I would love to hear from Kriea, though I doubt we will since her final thoughts on the force weren't very encouraging about a return.

[starmark2k]

You need to have a new PC otherwise the story will just be Bad.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think a new PC would be most appropriate.

 

However, I think Revan and the Exile ought to show up as NPCs at least once, despite the various difficulty of having to fit them in - which could be as complex as using a BG 2-style import, or as simple as setting them up like in Kotr 2.

 

Imagine the final fight... you, new-maxed-out player, Revan AND the Exile all kicking whatever at the same time! That would be sooo cool.

 

Or worse, if you play light side and they are darkside (or vise verse) having to fight both...

 

Plus think of the fun you could have watching the various male/female Light/Dark interplay between Revan and the Exile!

 

However, practicality rears it's ugly head. I feel it unlikely to see any such introduction, but it would be nice. It adds continuity to the games.

 

Case in point: I still haven't got over the shock after my first time through Korriban and running into Reven, as he showed up with duel lightsabres, just like my first Kotr 1 character. After *that* little incident, Exile had to go and have short lie down for a while...

 

That said, there's no reason you couldn't have one or other as the main character - it would tend to be a little more restrictive in terms of development potentially; but after all, most of the Final Fantasy and genre have you playing a set character, and they don't seem to get many complaints.

[lukeiamyourdad]

That said, there's no reason you couldn't have one or other as the main character - it would tend to be a little more restrictive in terms of development potentially; but after all, most of the Final Fantasy and genre have you playing a set character, and they don't seem to get many complaints.

 

Yes they do.

But that's a characteristic of almost every japanese RPG so they are forgiven for that.

KotOR is a western RPG and western RPGs rarely have set characters.

[Soogz]

Man I hope to god that t is Revan, I wasn't to fond of the exile at all, and didn't like his or her story one bit.

[Jeff]

Man I hope to god that t is Revan, I wasn't to fond of the exile at all, and didn't like his or her story one bit.

Did you even enjoy TSL then? I couldn't play (or at least enjoy) a game where I disliked the player character...