Lynk Former Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Dubs for the most part are lousy and sometimes even change the story and characters due to phrasing and half-a$$ed translations. In the english dub, she sonds happy encouraging him and telling him to keep up the good work. In the original japanese she sounds rough, reprimands him, criticizes him and telling him to do better. This giving Togusa the psychological boost he needs to try harder and stay sharp. This changes the major's personality. She is a hard and unforgiving professional and she loses that hard edge when praising Togusa instead of reprimanding him, demanding a better performance. It also changes their relationship as they appear friends in the english dub, instead of colleagues in the original. So, it's better to make an effort and read subtitles, instead of listening to crappy dubs. I have to disagree with NOT watching the dub. I mean obviously, watch the Japanese version if you want to watch the original version, but dubs aren't necessarily crappy, just another take on things. I think it's great listening to different versions of the same thing. Like I said in the anime thread, if there was a German audio track included in the anime DVDs I buy then I would take the time to watch that too. I do agree that the Major, as well as many other characters do sound different in many ways but like I said, I don't think it is a crappy dub. A crappy dub would be something like *thinks* Macross Plus, where every line seemed forced and the voices didn't sound anything like the face it was tagged to. I say "face it was tagged to" because obviously in reality anime characters don't have a true voice to start off with, it's all interpretation, even the original japanese audio. I do know which scene you're talking about, and I've just rewatched it in both japanes e and english. I have to say that they were both done pretty well. It is obvious that the voices in the two different versions are extremely different, the major has a higher pitched voice in the japanese version and togusa has a lower pitched voice compared to the english version. From what I hear the tone between the japanese and english is almost EXACTLY the same. The biggest difference is the language. Japanese is a sharper language than english, it sounds harsher because that is how it naturally sounds. Take a look at the Major's face, she her expression looks to me like she trying to be supportive to Togusa in that scene and she sounds that way in both tracks. Nowhere did I see anything about a repremand in that scene, it was a supportive talk between colleagues and there really was no sign of "over friendliness" in the dub. It's extremely easy to critisise, I know. I used to do it a lot, because things weren't exactly how they "should" be... whatever THAT meant. But I lightened up, realised that it wasn't a case of "half-assed" translations. I mean we see a lot of fansubbers say they can do a better job and they produce a sub and it's different than the official yet the same. In one way, yes their alternate subtitles are correct, but in another way they are incorrect. Why? Because Japanese to English translations are hardly ever perfect, especially when you have more than just "hello my name is... ...how are you?" happening. I think if you ask people to take the effort to read subtitles, then maybe you should make the effort to get passed the whole "it's not the original audio so it must suck" thing and try the dubs out because these days they have gotten so very talented people who do some great work and I think they should be acknowledged as much as the Japanese cast and crew for their efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I have to disagree with NOT watching the dub. I mean obviously, watch the Japanese version if you want to watch the original version, but dubs aren't necessarily crappy, just another take on things. I think it's great listening to different versions of the same thing. Well, I am not going to watch Bob Bumpalot's version of Star Wars just to see "another take" on it. I prefer the original. Like I said in the anime thread, if there was a German audio track included in the anime DVDs I buy then I would take the time to watch that too. By this I understand you are german or live/have lived in germany. And this implicates that your sense of dubbing is "dulled" as almost everything is dubbed for you. You are used to things being taken out of their original and adapted and translated for your native speaking language. It is the same for the american audience as almost everything for them is in their native language from the beginning, therefore they are not used to hear something else or reading subtitles. So their dubbing sense is also "dulled". This shouldn't mean that you can't appreciate an original for what it is, even though you can enjoy, a dub as well. From what I hear the tone between the japanese and english is almost EXACTLY the same. The biggest difference is the language. Japanese is a sharper language than english, it sounds harsher because that is how it naturally sounds. I don't agree with this. I am not a native-english speaker and I realise you are not either, but still. I don't find the japanese to be a sharper language, by itself, it's more in the speaker than the language. It's extremely easy to critisise, I know. I used to do it a lot, because things weren't exactly how they "should" be... whatever THAT meant. I have worked as a translator for a tv-station and at the end of the episode it says "translation and adaptation: montnoir". So I am quite aware that things need to be adapted when making a translation, they can't just be translated mot-a-mot. But you still have an original to work with and you try to stay as true to the tone and intentions of the original as you can or in other words - you try to keep things "as they SHOULD be". I remember when translating an old Samurai X episode and Kenshin had killed someone and was musing about the swift transcendence of life and death. It was a difficult portion and I tried to stay as true to the original mood as I could. But this was aired in the morning and it was aimed at kids so my boss told me to make it lighter and funnier because we couldn't air something like that. I don't know if I've made my point... at least I've tried. I think if you ask people to take the effort to read subtitles, then maybe you should make the effort to get passed the whole "it's not the original audio so it must suck" thing and try the dubs out because these days they have gotten so very talented people who do some great work and I think they should be acknowledged as much as the Japanese cast and crew for their efforts. There are some dubs that actually do get some effort and are quite worthwhile (GitS: SAC and Porco Rosso do come to mind) but there is still a majority of utterly suck dubs. So I will still ask people to take the effort and listen to the original audio, because it's the "original" audio. That's why it's called "the original". So if you want the real deal and the way the director meant for it to be seen, you will make an effort to read the subtitles. If you want someone's adaptation and interpretation, in which way it was never meant to be seen then you can give the dubs a chance. Because they "might" turn out ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Well, I am not going to watch Bob Bumpalot's version of Star Wars just to see "another take" on it. I prefer the original Fair enough. By this I understand you are german or live/have lived in germany. And this implicates that your sense of dubbing is "dulled" as almost everything is dubbed for you. You are used to things being taken out of their original and adapted and translated for your native speaking language. It is the same for the american audience as almost everything for them is in their native language from the beginning, therefore they are not used to hear something else or reading subtitles. So their dubbing sense is also "dulled". This shouldn't mean that you can't appreciate an original for what it is, even though you can enjoy, a dub as well. I'm not German and nowhere near Germany. I'm Indian, born in Fiji, live in Australia (with Australian accent, thank god). And if you want to say that about dubs you might as well say the same thing about the subtitles since subtitles are exactly the same as the dub. Just because you hear Japanese doesn't necessarily mean you comprehend it. For the record I listen to both the english and japanese tracks of every anime I buy. I have not been dulled in any way and like the sound of both tracks. The thing is that I hate it when people unfairly give the english audio a lot of crap just because it isn't the original audio. I don't agree with this. I am not a native-english speaker and I realise you are not either, but still. I don't find the japanese to be a sharper language, by itself, it's more in the speaker than the language. The first language that I learnt was Hindi, but I only spoke Hindi for the first 5-6 years of my life, after that I learnt and speak English. I have leanrt through family and friends who speak different languages that every language has a different sound to it. English, when compared to Japanese is a softer spoken language when spoken with certain accents. It's also interesting to note that the people who create the english dubs for animes acknowledge this. They realise that they have a tough job when it comes to dubbing animes but they give it their all (nowadays) and I respect them for that. But you still have an original to work with and you try to stay as true to the tone and intentions of the original as you can or in other words - you try to keep things "as they SHOULD be". Exactly, and I believe english dubbers, MOST english dubbers do this. I remember when translating an old Samurai X episode and Kenshin had killed someone and was musing about the swift transcendence of life and death. It was a difficult portion and I tried to stay as true to the original mood as I could. But this was aired in the morning and it was aimed at kids so my boss told me to make it lighter and funnier because we couldn't air something like that. I don't know if I've made my point... at least I've tried. Broadcast anime edits. I don't watch them because I know they're ruined. I buy all of my anime on DVD which are uncut and stay true to what was created. So I will still ask people to take the effort and listen to the original audio, because it's the "original" audio. That's why it's called "the original". So if you want the real deal and the way the director meant for it to be seen, you will make an effort to read the subtitles. If you want someone's adaptation and interpretation, in which way it was never meant to be seen then you can give the dubs a chance. Because they "might" turn out ok. It's not the way it was intended to be watched if you have to watch it with subtitles. The subtitle is yet another adaption and interpretation... it was never meant to be seen that way. Think about it. A lot of people have some very unfair things to say about the translated dubs and it really should stop. I do understand that a lot of older dubs are pretty bad, but one thing that really ticks me off is the fact that no one has even considered that maybe the Japanese audio may have bad acting in it... kinda makes you think huh, when we have the skills to notice bad acting on everything else, magically all anime has a great audio track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Lynky, dont lie, you ARE German !! ICH BIN EINE HAMBURGER !!!!!! Im curious, does FF7AC count as anime, seeing it is 100% animated and made in JP ?? Otherwise IMHO: Battle of the Planets > ALL [/showing my age] mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 go away astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I think the dubs for GitS are pretty decent. But then again, I didn't mind Mac Plus's either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 So Lynk is a Fiji-born indian whose first language was hindi, who then learned english and now takes time to listen to the german dub on his dvd's... *starts to think it over* *faints* (j/k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 go away astro Poor Astro, cant go anywhere without being ridiculed by Lynk *goes to Monkey Island forums* What about FF7AC Lynky, is it anime ?? It was a serious question ! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 So Lynk is a Fiji-born indian whose first language was hindi, who then learned english and now takes time to listen to the german dub on his dvd's... Well actually I haven't actually heard a German dub before, but I have said recently that if the DVDs I buy did have German dubs I would listen to them XD. But I have listened to the Russian dub of the Cowboy Bebop movie which was pretty trippy lol. What about FF7AC Lynky, is it anime ?? It was a serious question ! I'm not sure actually, I haven't been interested in it at all so I haven't kept up to date with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanA4 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 *walks in* hey this is another anime I like though haven't really seen all that much of it but what I've seen I like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Im curious, does FF7AC count as anime, seeing it is 100% animated and made in JP ?? The newer Appleseed movie is cgi and it still is an anime. So I would definitely classify Advent Children as anime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 French animation is anime too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SITHSLAYER133 Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 well ive just seen the first epp and wow it was cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 'Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: 2nd Gig' I can honestly say that it will take some time to adjust. I have concluded that the movie writters must have contributed to the second season. So far, each episode is filled with dialogue... Too much dialogue... Before I go nuts, I will watch a few more episodes... For all those people who like the opening credits, of the first season, they changed the music and animation... Sorry People!!! At the moment, only one episode in the first four episodes, of the second season, turned out to be too dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 French animation is anime too I thought the definition of anime was "japanese animation" and NOT korean animation or french animation or american animation... When is Advent Children going to be released? I've understood it is already out in japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOssusKeeper Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 'Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: 2nd Gig' I can honestly say that it will take some time to adjust. I have concluded that the movie writters must have contributed to the second season. So far, each episode is filled with dialogue... Too much dialogue... Before I go nuts, I will watch a few more episodes... For all those people who like the opening credits, of the first season, they changed the music and animation... Sorry People!!! At the moment, only one episode in the first four episodes, of the second season, turned out to be too dry. ahwww, don't spoil it for me, i haven't seen any of them yet, it doesn't start here until Nov. 19th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Usually with an anime like this there is only one season. But if that anime becomes quite successful they go ahead with a second. Why? Teh moneh. I thought the definition of anime was "japanese animation" and NOT korean animation or french animation or american animation... "anime" is the french word for animation as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Usually with an anime like this there is only one season. But if that anime becomes quite successful they go ahead with a second. Why? Teh moneh. And fan demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Aye, and then you get something that isn't as great as the first season and everyone is disappointed. But teh moneh is still made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Aye, and then you get something that isn't as great as the first season and everyone is disappointed. But teh moneh is still made. Actually it is quite good! Some of the dialogue does get too dry, but the stories are intresting. I will not get into too much detail. When you listen to the new openning credits, the theme song sounds better each time you play it. I placed it on a loop, and started to enjoy the music clip. If there are only one season for each Anime, then that should tell you about the quality of Ghost In The Shell... Second Season Volume II comes out in a week or two! I just placed it on reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 What is intresting is that: Season One's theme song was in Japanese, Russian, and American, and Season Two's theme song is in Japanese and American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I think people call the language "English" in most places Well I haven't seen the second season but a few friends of mine who are diehard GITS fans think that 2ND GIG really isn't needed. Most animators work on several different projects, and also the fact that most animes have a good sense of closure at the end of the anime where there would be no room for another new story. Don't think just because Stand Alone Complex gets a second story goin, it means that it's better than most anime (well it is, but you know what I mean lol). About the only other animes who go on and on for many many episodes are anime based on long running manga's. Oh and, edit your posts rather than doubling posting please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOssusKeeper Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 story possiblities for GitS are almost endless, they should make 6 or 7 seasons of it... like stargate sg1 has many seasons... it would be awesome to have the same for GitS, but the stories are only limited by writers imaginations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 story possiblities for GitS are almost endless, they should make 6 or 7 seasons of it... like stargate sg1 has many seasons... it would be awesome to have the same for GitS, but the stories are only limited by writers imaginations... I believe they should also. What I like about the series so far, they keep making the story complex. After one season ends, the story being told also ends. Like a chronicle of books. I think that is pretty cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOssusKeeper Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I believe they should also. What I like about the series so far, they keep making the story complex. After one season ends, the story being told also ends. Like a chronicle of books. I think that is pretty cool! i agree, i have always liked that type of series... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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