The Missing Content (Spoilers)

[DarkRevan]

I'm not sure if you guys have already discussed this. But I found this site where apparently there are dialogue that has been cut out from the game TSL.http://tubertarian.com/kotor2missingcontent.php

 

I don’t know why that cut it out, well in that page it said “people think Obsidian ran out of development time (and/or money), or that there were objections about the mature content of the scenes (perhaps at the last minute)”

 

But what got me thinking is that part where Atton dies.

What I think is that the reason they took that bit out is because they need Atton alive in the third Kotor.

 

Like in the first one on the starforge, there cut the part where DSF Revan can die on the starforge with Carth. But they cut that out because the need Revan and the Ebon Hawk (that would have been destroyed in the starforge) alive.

 

Well that’s what I think.

Correct me if I’m wrong (be nice, I don’t take verbal pummeling very well)

 

So yeah just tell me what you guys think about all that cut out dialogue.

[BattleDog]

There's a team dedicated to restoring all this content. Search the forum for KOTOR Restoration Project, or just google it is quicker.

[StaffSaberist]

I can't wait to see it completed.

[The_Maker]

I can't wait to see it completed.

Me too

 

Although it is taking quite a while

[Achilles]

Glad to see that everyone missed the gist of her post

 

Yes, DarkRevan, I think you're spot on. It very well may be that content was cut due to time or budget issues, but I strongly believe that all or part of the cut content got that way b/c it could conflict with potential KotOR 3 storylines (which I also suspect were being drafted before TSL was even finished).

 

Unfortunately many basher use the cut content as an excuse to snub the game. They lump it together with the bugs (which were just as numerous in the original KotOR...conveniently forgotten) and then, in their infinite righteousness, deem the game "crap".

 

It will be interesting to see what happens if/when K3 comes out

[Meatbag]

I find the HK-47 lines the best... some content is rare but not cut, like HK humming, I hear. Like the mockery he says, some never hear it, some do.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, the Bastila Rip from HK is real funny, and yet its not cut :3

[Meatbag]

But when he explains why they were created to the other HKs, that is a cut part, but it is very funny. Or when he tortures the HK-50? So sad that was a cut part.

[RedHawke]

Unfortunately many basher use the cut content as an excuse to snub the game. They lump it together with the bugs (which were just as numerous in the original KotOR...conveniently forgotten) and then, in their infinite righteousness, deem the game "crap".

Quoted for emphasis!

[PoiuyWired]

well, some cut stuff is actually cut for a reason, like the Revan's Death part......

 

Remember both Revan n Exile survives the whatever adventure they go thru.

[BattleDog]

Sorry, I did miss that bit, yes I think some of the content was cut due to the story, just like K1. That sort of thing happens in every film, you film a sequence and when you put it together with the rest it doesn't fit.

 

However, I also think the that certain sections, like the droid factory and parts of the ending were cut due to time and budget. Lets face it after the Telos battle the end goes up the spout. As far as bugs, well yes there were some in KOTOR but they all got fixed fairly quickly, while TSL is still full of scripting bugs.

[Carthaholic]

Unfortunately many basher use the cut content as an excuse to snub the game. They lump it together with the bugs (which were just as numerous in the original KotOR...conveniently forgotten) and then, in their infinite righteousness, deem the game "crap".

 

*scratch head* An excuse? How exactly is far too apparent missing content leaving huge gaps in the story an excuse? Sounds like a good argument to me. Even if it was cut because of potential storyline conflicts for KotOR3, or any other reasons for that matter, they could've hid it better for crying out loud, don't you think? I finished TSL with this horrible 'incomplete' and 'unpolished' aftertaste which ruined the game for me. I wouldn't say that the game is crap, I liked parts of it still, but the fact is that it does partially contributes to TSL's lesser success, well for me anyway...

 

Anyway, I'm being offtopic so I'll shutup now.

[Darth InSidious]

*scratch head* An excuse? How exactly is far too apparent missing content leaving huge gaps in the story an excuse? Sounds like a good argument to me. Even if it was cut because of potential storyline conflicts for KotOR3, or any other reasons for that matter, they could've hid it better for crying out loud, don't you think? I finished TSL with this horrible 'incomplete' and 'unpolished' aftertaste which ruined the game for me. I wouldn't say that the game is crap, I liked parts of it still, but the fact is that it does partially contributes to TSL's lesser success, well for me anyway...

 

Anyway, I'm being offtopic so I'll shutup now.

Quoted for emphasis

 

Anyway, from what I've seen of the cut content (which is a LOT), most of it seems to have been cut because of time. Certainly nothing seems to have contradicted the plot any more than some of the stuff about Revan that was left in...

[Achilles]

However, I also think the that certain sections, like the droid factory and parts of the ending were cut due to time and budget.

Possible. Either theory is just as likely without more information. I'm sure that Team Gizka may have come some dev notes that would clear that up. The point is: how we would we have notice that they were missing if we weren't aware of their existence in the first place? Sure we may have looked at the end and thought "gee, sure would've been cool if there was a little more here". But this up-in-arms stuff wouldn't exist.

 

Lets face it after the Telos battle the end goes up the spout. As far as bugs, well yes there were some in KOTOR but they all got fixed fairly quickly, while TSL is still full of scripting bugs.

Yes, I would be one of the first to complain about the inability to control the game past the 2nd trip to Dantooine. Agreed.

 

As for the bugs/patches, let's not forget that LA controls those, not OE. We know that the media patch sat in LA's queue for months. Maybe it was b/c of additional bugs found in testing, but OE announced that a patch was ready for release and then LA finally got around to it months later. For whatever reason, LA was incredibly responsive re: patches for KotOR but not so much for TSL. Can't blame that on devs. I'm sure if the original game was only permitted a single patch, there would be just as much bashing for it as there's been for TSL. My 2 cents.

 

*scratch head* An excuse? How exactly is far too apparent missing content leaving huge gaps in the story an excuse?

 

Again, "apparent" insofar as comparing the game to cut content still available on the disks. How "apparent" would the cut content be if we weren't aware of its existence?

 

Even if it was cut because of potential storyline conflicts for KotOR3, or any other reasons for that matter, they could've hid it better for crying out loud, don't you think?

Yes, I do, but I don't think they did much worse than BW (I'm thinking of the ladder to nowhere in the Taris sewers, Bastila's reference to Juhani's cave rather than the ruins, etc).

 

I finished TSL with this horrible 'incomplete' and 'unpolished' aftertaste which ruined the game for me.

I don't think that you're the only one that feels this way and I wouldn't begrudge you your opinion. The game certainly could have been better, but then again, I think you could safely say that about many popular games.

 

EDIT: fixed broken quote

[Darth InSidious]

Just to be a pedant, I had no idea of the cut content when I played the game, and I noticed that stuff seemed to be missing. It felt incomplete. So there, yes I did . I wondered where the HK factory was, for one thing

[BattleDog]

I don't think the ladder to nowhere is exactly a big issue. I don't remember anything about a cave though.

 

Regardless the TSL ending has a huge hole in, namely GO-TO and the remote. That was apparently removed due to the droid factory going. Well rescripting the scene wouldn't have taken that long so the gap is indefensible. At least Bioware did manage to create a fully coherent story.

 

Another problem with TSL is the presentation of the game. Am I the only one who thinks it got made by a load of fanboys?

 

The robes, well they look nothing like KOTOR ones and it makes no sense.

 

Death Star droids?

 

Star Vipers?

 

STAR DESTROYERS!?!

 

The whole feally of the game is off, then when you find out about the cut content you get this sickly half baked feeling, which sucks.

[Darth InSidious]

Actually, the cuts are defensible. OE had 3 months cut from their timetable- THREE MONTHS! They were working against the clock, and it's a wonder as much got in as did.

[Achilles]

I don't think the ladder to nowhere is exactly a big issue.

Great. I feel the same way about the door the cut droid factory. Both games had cut modules. Both games had links those cut modules left in the final game. Interesting that OE gets bashed for this and (apparently) BW does not.

 

I don't remember anything about a cave though.

I'm sorry to hear that. So it didn't happen? Bastila's dialog in the rakata temple if you'd like to check it out for yourself. Seems to imply that you were supposed to find Juhani the crystal cave rather than the grove, but it's just a minor thing that doesn't really effect the overall game. Too bad OE can't get that same consideration...

 

Regardless the TSL ending has a huge hole in, namely GO-TO and the remote. That was apparently removed due to the droid factory going. Well rescripting the scene wouldn't have taken that long so the gap is indefensible. At least Bioware did manage to create a fully coherent story.

My response to this argument in another thread

 

 

Another problem with TSL is the presentation of the game. Am I the only one who thinks it got made by a load of fanboys?

Err...yeah, star wars fans making star wars games. Who the hell let that happen?!

 

The robes, well they look nothing like KOTOR ones and it makes no sense.

One might also say that the KotOR robes looked nothing like traditional SW robes, so that made no sense. Could it be that the devs (like the modding community) wanted to see movie style robes in the game? Shame on them.

 

Death Star droids?

 

Star Vipers?

 

STAR DESTROYERS!?!

I suppose if that bothers you, then you have a valid point. *shrugs*

 

The whole feally of the game is off, then when you find out about the cut content you get this sickly half baked feeling, which sucks.

Easy solution: don't play it anymore. You obviously don't feel that you got your money's worth. Maybe you can find a game that you do like and spend time conversing with others that share your viewpoint in a forum created for that purpose. Good luck to you.

[StaffSaberist]

Great. I feel the same way about the door the cut droid factory. Both games had cut modules. Both games had links those cut modules left in the final game. Interesting that OE gets bashed for this and (apparently) BW does not.

 

I didn't notice much cut from KotOR, it seemed real complete to me. Yeah, OE cut more, and in ways I'd prefer they didn't, but that doesn't ruin my enjoyment. Esp. since the restoration team is working on getting that in there.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. So it didn't happen? Bastila's dialog in the rakata temple if you'd like to check it out for yourself. Seems to imply that you were supposed to find Juhani the crystal cave rather than the grove, but it's just a minor thing that doesn't really effect the overall game. Too bad OE can't get that same consideration...

 

Oh, so that's what Bastila meant when she said that. I always thought that Bastila called Juhani's spot a cave because... well... I dunno.

 

My response to this argument in another thread

 

I'd prefer to not imagine it, I'd like to see it, but I suppose the Telos Restoration Project is working on that, too. I'd love to see HK-47 blow up G0-T0. That and see him with a LS aura on the Character screen. That'd be cool, too.

 

Err...yeah, star wars fans making star wars games. Who the hell let that happen?!

 

Yeah, we should have had LOTR fans do it. Hello, Orc-Sith!

 

One might also say that the KotOR robes looked nothing like traditional SW robes, so that made no sense. Could it be that the devs (like the modding community) wanted to see movie style robes in the game? Shame on them.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

I suppose if that bothers you, then you have a valid point. *shrugs*

 

Those ships weren't Star Destroyers in the sense that you see them in SW. All fleets have capital ships, you know. I think the Ravager wasn't one-of-a-kind. I think it was just the only one that survived Malachor V.

 

Easy solution: don't play it anymore. You obviously don't feel that you got your money's worth. Maybe you can find a game that you do like and spend time conversing with others that share your viewpoint in a forum created for that purpose. Good luck to you.

 

pwned.

[Achilles]

I didn't notice much cut from KotOR, it seemed real complete to me. Yeah, OE cut more, and in ways I'd prefer they didn't, but that doesn't ruin my enjoyment. Esp. since the restoration team is working on getting that in there.

Well there was the ladder (that was supposed to lead to a Gamorrean camp), and the unlockable door (that wasn't fixed in any of the patches even though 1.03 says that it did) in the Hidden Bek base (true purpose still unknown). The elevator-turned-into-a-storeroom in the Vulkar base that was cut (module is almost fully complete and you can even warp to it). There are multiple selectable doors in the Yavin 4 station that sure do seem to scream "there's something really cool behind me!".

 

These are all things that still have traces left in the game. We also know about the things that were cut earlier in the process as well, such as Sleheyron and the Sarlacc pit on Tatooine. If you read through the .tlk file for KotOR there's a slew of cut dialog (I particularly enjoy the stuff written for the Hutts on Sleheyron)

 

I'd prefer to not imagine it, I'd like to see it, but I suppose the Telos Restoration Project is working on that, too. I'd love to see HK-47 blow up G0-T0. That and see him with a LS aura on the Character screen. That'd be cool, too.

I still maintain that they "explained" that just as fully as they "explained" other things in the game. We all know what the Mass Shadow Generator is and what it does without actually seeing one. But the implied battle between G0-T0 and Remote is "unfinished" because we didn't get to see it. How is that equitable?

 

You can't really factor the HK's into it because we weren't supposed to know that they were part of that exchange, hence it would have been a different scene entirely.

[BattleDog]

Great. I feel the same way about the door the cut droid factory. Both games had cut modules. Both games had links those cut modules left in the final game. Interesting that OE gets bashed for this and (apparently) BW does not. My response to this argument in another thread

 

The lack of droid factory doesn't really bother me in an abstract sense, its just mildly irritating that HK talks about locating the factory and then doesn't. Would it have killed them to script a scene where just HK comes in?

 

Err...yeah, star wars fans making star wars games. Who the hell let that happen?!

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit Its about the way they did it.

 

One might also say that the KotOR robes looked nothing like traditional SW robes, so that made no sense. Could it be that the devs (like the modding community) wanted to see movie style robes in the game? Shame on them.

 

How about consistancy between the two? Personnally I think they (k1 robes) recall some of the clothes from Tales of the Jedi, especially the shoulder pads. The devs give you one set of robes for before the war, one for the tomb on Korriban (K1 style) and first set again during gameplay. They ignored the war itself, it feels like a bit of a snub to Bioware. Thats why I don't like different devs working on the same series.

 

I suppose if that bothers you, then you have a valid point. *shrugs*

 

It bothers me because it demonstrates a lack of origionality, fidelity to the first game or understanding of the time period.

 

Easy solution: don't play it anymore. You obviously don't feel that you got your money's worth. Maybe you can find a game that you do like and spend time conversing with others that share your viewpoint in a forum created for that purpose. Good luck to you.

 

Funny you should say that, I don't.

 

As for KOTOR bloopers, Bastila apparently can't count. In the tomb on Dantooine she says the thing was built 20,000 years ago and that that that makes it 5,000 years older than the Republic, which only makes the Republic 19,000 years old in ANH. That said they got the maths right in the splash screens, more or less.

[Achilles]

The lack of droid factory doesn't really bother me in an abstract sense, its just mildly irritating that HK talks about locating the factory and then doesn't. Would it have killed them to script a scene where just HK comes in?

This seems a far cry from your earlier commentary? Did you have a change of heart?

 

No it wouldn't of. Certainly could have been handled differently, but IIRC that dialog is available fairly early on and it's removal may have necessitated major changes to HK-47's dialog file (it's a beasty too).

 

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit Its about the way they did it.

After enduring a seamingless endless stream of logical fallacy and misinformation, this comment is actually pretty funny.

 

Just so I'm clear: it's not what they did (change the robes), it's how they did it? Ok, I'll bite, how should they have done it?

 

 

How about consistancy between the two?

So the changes to the upgrade system, the additon of lightsaber colors, the influence system, etc...these are all problems for you as well? Let me guess: that's different. Perhaps you mistakenly bought TSL thinking it was an expansion pack rather than a sequel created by another developer.

 

 

Personnally I think they (k1 robes) recall some of the clothes from Tales of the Jedi, especially the shoulder pads. The devs give you one set of robes for before the war, one for the tomb on Korriban (K1 style) and first set again during gameplay. They ignored the war itself, it feels like a bit of a snub to Bioware.

Not sure what you're referring to here. Don't mean to be dense, but you could take another stab at explaining your point here?

 

Snub at Bioware, eh? Again, does that mean the other aforemention changes were snubs as well? Considering that BW recommended OE for the development of the sequel, how does that position hold up? If they wanted to snub BW, they sure did pick an interesting way to do it.

 

 

Thats why I don't like different devs working on the same series.

Fair enough. Why did you buy it then?

 

 

It bothers me because it demonstrates a lack of origionality, fidelity to the first game or understanding of the time period.

*repeated* I suppose if that bothers you, then you have a valid point. *shrugs*

 

 

As for KOTOR bloopers, Bastila apparently can't count. In the tomb on Dantooine she says the thing was built 20,000 years ago and that that that makes it 5,000 years older than the Republic, which only makes the Republic 19,000 years old in ANH. That said they got the maths right in the splash screens, more or less.

Odd that no one at LA caught that. IIRC they would have had to approve the story before work began. Hmmm...

[Carthaholic]

Regardless the TSL ending has a huge hole in, namely GO-TO and the remote. That was apparently removed due to the droid factory going. Well rescripting the scene wouldn't have taken that long so the gap is indefensible. At least Bioware did manage to create a fully coherent story.

Quoted for emphasis!

 

Yes, I do, but I don't think they did much worse than BW (I'm thinking of the ladder to nowhere in the Taris sewers, Bastila's reference to Juhani's cave rather than the ruins, etc).

Yes, except the things you pointed out about the first game are barely noticeable, I knew nothing about them until today! The cut content in TSL is far more obvious hence why so many people can't help but to feel cheated. True that OE was really short on time to fix all the problems but who's fault is that? Maybe they took on too much work and it came back to bit them on the a$$. Maybe it's bad planning, maybe it's something else completely, I can't pretend to know but the end result is still the same...

 

Easy solution: don't play it anymore. You obviously don't feel that you got your money's worth. Maybe you can find a game that you do like and spend time conversing with others that share your viewpoint in a forum created for that purpose. Good luck to you.

Still, a person can share their point of view even if they didn't appreciate the game just as much as you did, their opinions are just as valid as yours.

[Jae Onasi]

Let me say first off, I enjoyed both games. I thought they were great games. I've played both a lot and will continue enjoying both, especially with everyone's mods adding to the playability.

Now, I played both games without knowing there was cut content in either of them, but I got a much greater sense of 'things are missing here' in TSL than in K1.

In K1, I noted doors that remained locked in several places and wondered what was behind them, but felt 'oh well, I'll go on.' I didn't feel like I was missing anything major.

I don't know that there was any more missing in TSL than K1, but I think the locations where you notice 'something's not right here' were entirely different. In K1, it's scattered all over the game, but the Star Forge stuff appeared to be pretty straightforward, and I was so busy fighting off the bad guys that I really didn't have time to worry about glitchy stuff, and when you have a satisfying ending, all is generally forgiven.

However, in TSL it's more noticeable because on Malachor V you notice a number of things that 'aren't right'. Goto and the Remote are never resolved. Mira's thing with Hanharr is never fully resolved (although you can give a good guess). While I understood doing Trayus academy by myself, I didn't like it. And while the fights with Sion and Traya were tough enough for my taste, listening to Traya monologue for 10 minutes (while supposedly dying) about the fates of my friends before you see the Hawk escape is not exactly what I was looking for. Why did I need to know the future of my friends anyway? Even if it was nice knowing what was going to happen, didn't we just save/conquer the entire galaxy? And I never did get an answer on how I could be a 'hole in the Force' when I was using it so darned well. It's not like I was sucking the life out of anything. This was not the kind of ending I had come to expect from anything Star Wars. I was expecting something just a little more 'epic', since after all you've just saved the galaxy from a force-eating monster, another Sith Lord who just doesn't know when to quit, and someone who's just betrayed everyone in the universe. I may not have known about 'cut content' per se, but I did know that the ending in particular was really just thrown together at the last minute, no matter how good the intention of the devs. I think if the non sequiter stuff had been more scattered around throughout the game (like in K1) instead of being concentrated on Malachor V, and more importantly, if the ending had been complete and satisfying, we wouldn't be having all this cut content discussion.

[Carthaholic]

The only place I've ever noticed locked doors in KotOR is in the the Hidden Beks base, but a lot of these can be opened when playing DS and striking a deal with the Vulkars to go against the Beks instead. Are there any other locked doors I'm not aware of?