Games Consoles

[Lynk Former]

So basically Halo is based on mythology and is the story about a good man who became a villian and the son who saved him? Yes, both Halo and Star Wars are scifi... but their similarities are about as deep as Star Wars and Star Trek's similarities. It's like saying "Oh look, Blade Runner and Star Wars are basically the same thing"... since when? Also Halo isn't exactly Fantasy, that title goes to things that are... Lord of the Ring-ish.

 

Secondly, I never called you stupid, I called what you said stupid. Big difference. Besides... smoking is stupid and even then a lot of people smoke. So what's your point?

[stingerhs]

What if the game and console are worth it?

that would depend entirely on two factor's: 1. a person's willingness to spend a ton of money solely for the sake of entertainment and 2. a person's want to own the console/game.

 

even now, no console that is currently out (or will be coming out later, for that matter) is worth my very hard-earned and very limited supply of money. besides, i have the ultimate multi-purpose machine that can help me both research and write a term paper, and then turn right around and give me a good time playing games like FEAR or E@W. it may not be the ulimate gaming machine, but guess what? its was worth every penny.

 

and the comparisons between Halo and Star Wars? dude, that is just so incredibly different. your talking pure sci-fi vs. sci-fi/fantasy. big difference.

 

and yet another thing: Microsoft Gaming Studios is a gaming publisher. they don't make the games: they copy the main disc from the developer, package it, send it off to retailers, and then pray that things sell. sometimes, they even advertise the games. sometimes, a publisher has its own internal studios to create video games, and publishers like EA, Ubisoft, Atari, and LucasArts are very good examples of publishers that will sometimes develop their own games internally. MGS is not one of those publishers, and i highly doubt that Microsoft is going to change that strategy anytime in the near future.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

We show ourselves through our actions, if my actions are stupid then so am I;)

 

Mythology, prophets, prophecies, ancient weapons and artifacts aren't fantasies???

Fantasy:

The forming of grotesque mental images (The Flood;))

An ingeneous or fanciful thought, design, or invention (The entire halo universe)

An imaginitive or fanciful work, esp. one dealing with supernatural or unnatural events or characters (Engineered super soldiers, alliances of evil alien civilizations, AI girls who live in armor, giant underground icky guys, doomsday weapons disguised as ring worlds, etc.)

oNOEz! Hurry! Get the dictionary away from the stupid hammer swinger before his head explodes with a couple sentences worth of knowledge:lol:

 

Halo, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars are all fantasy, Halo and SW seem much more alike than either of them do to LotR.

 

If all of star wars is about darth vader, then what exactly is your interest in knights of the old republic? Obviously Kotor isn't SW because it's the story of a character who either turned evil (or didn't;)) and had it's mind wiped and replaced with a new personality designed to choose good over evil. Obviously TSL isn't star wars because it's the story of an exile searching for redemption and answers.

Arbiter faces similar trials, being branded as a heretic, becoming the "chosen one" to save his civilization, and faces difficult choices concerning his loyalties and what cause he believes is right.

 

I know somebody once mentioned something about things depending on our own point of view;) Where did I hear nonsense?

 

Heavy Metal Monk Chanting man! Now that's mythology:cool:

[stingerhs]

technically, anything produced from one's own creative thought can be classified as 'fantasy'. in the realm of storytelling (in any medium), fantasy is a very well defined genre. basically, it involves some form of the supernatural that absolutely cannot be defined at all in scientific terms. take Star Wars, for example. The Force is most definately a supernatural identity. you could try to use the meticlorians (or however that's spelled) to define it, but even then, you will find that defining the Force will still not be entirely complete.

 

the Halo universe, on the other hand, has nothing that is related to the supernatural. you can attempt to use the Covenant's extreme religious devotion, but there is nothing within the Halo universe that even justifies their beliefs. basically, there is no supernatural element of any sort within the Halo universe. everything within the Hale universe can be described using some sort of scientific basis. thus, the Halo universe fits into the category of science fiction without any fantastic elements.

[Lynk Former]

@ stingerhs: He's confusing fantasy with fiction.

 

We show ourselves through our actions, if my actions are stupid then so am I;)

If you say so, then by your own words... I guess you are stupid....

 

 

 

 

Kotor is a part of the expanded universe which uses the universe created by the Star Wars movies. It is Star Wars because people have bought the license to associate that specific comic, book, videogame, etc with the original source. Because of this it doesn't have to share the same specific fantasy genre and can go and do its own thing. You can also find some basic points of similarities between Bladerunner and Star Wars, however those similarities are meaningless without context and the context of Halo and Star Wars is very different. To clarify, Star Wars being the movies, the original source for all of those other licensed works.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

Well, technically George did make the force scientific, by demonstrating a measurable correlation between midichlorians and force sensitivity/aptitude (I forget the actual number) but the fact that anakins "count" is higher than yoda's implies that he is more powerful, making force power definable and the force open to scientific systematic study and quantification.

If the midichlorians aren't so closely related, then is anakin a child of the "force", and it's desire to enforce it's will upon history, or small microbiological entities?

 

Personally though, I would preferr a "greedo shoots first" special edition that nixes the middies and returns the fantasy "soul" to Star Wars;)

 

But all that is dependent only on the assumptions derived from the information presented. The jedi aren't always right, and midichlorians could simply be a coincidence, meaning that there woul'd still be fantasy in the sense you use. The forerunners could have really been some sort of deities who created large weapons to administer their creation.

 

You don't know wether the origins of the prophecies and religious fundamentals which the covenant use are supernatural or not, just as you don't know wether the force is supernatural or not depending on wether or not you buy midichlorians.

 

By what I classify them, they are both fantasy and both scifi.

 

edit:

@Lynk, I was referring to the fact that you said SW and Halo can't be related because half of the basis of SW is about "a good man who became a villain and the son who saved him" and if that is a requirement for being starwarsish then kotor isn't starwarsish without the mythology, and then when you factor midichlorians that decreases too.

 

[ot]from an aggressive standpoint I love being outnumbered, but it sure makes editing an annoyance:rofl:[/ot]

[Lynk Former]

*shakes head*

 

...anywayz, getting back to the original point. As I originally stated, I don't like Halo. Whether you think that Star Wars and Halo are both fantasy/scifi is irrelevant. You asked me why I didn't like Halo stating that I should because it's similar to Star Wars. I have made it clear that I don't think it's similar to Star Wars at all. I think your question has been answered.

[stingerhs]

Well, technically George did make the force scientific, by demonstrating a measurable correlation between midichlorians and force sensitivity/aptitude (I forget the actual number) but the fact that anakins "count" is higher than yoda's implies that he is more powerful, making force power definable and the force open to scientific systematic study and quantification.

If the midichlorians aren't so closely related, then is anakin a child of the "force", and it's desire to enforce it's will upon history, or small microbiological entities?

okay, now define the Force.

 

the midichlorians might define how powerful one's connection is with the Force, but otherwise, the midichlorians are not the ultimate definition of the Force.

But all that is dependent only on the assumptions derived from the information presented.

...which is exactly my point. the definition of the Force is almost always going to according to one's personal understanding. since that will differ from person to person, it cannot be clearly defined.

The forerunners could have really been some sort of deities who created large weapons to administer their creation.

i think its pretty clear that the story writers from Bungie want us to conclude that the Forerunners destroyed themselves by activating the Halo rings thousands of years ago. you have to make conclusions based on information that is present. we know that the Forerunners had the technological capacity to create the Halo rings and some of the technology within the rings (the 'light' bridges or teleportation, for example). what else do we know about the Forerunners?? nothing.

You don't know wether the origins of the prophecies and religious fundamentals which the covenant use are supernatural or not, just as you don't know wether the force is supernatural or not depending on wether or not you buy midichlorians.

...which is exactly why we can't make assumptions about them.

[Lynk Former]

The hero, the anti-hero, the princess and the wizard... all part of a well balanced fantasy. All of which are classicaly portrayed in Star Wars: A New Hope.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz... discussions about the mythology of SW and the force belong in the SW forums, and besides, this is a thread about CONSOLES.

 

back on topic !

 

I played some XB360 at a friends house t'other day. I definitely agree with comments Lynky has made that the current next gen consoles are "more of the same", just higher rez grafx really... all that hype, and cash (they cost $700 here FFS), you'd hope there was something more

 

mtfbwya

[Lynk Former]

But the real question is... When the hell am I gonna get to play Twilight Princess dammit?!

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

What do you think of as NexGen? The utilization of the proccessors and hardware capability? REVOLUTIONary interfaces? Untested gameplay dynamics? HDTV? etc.

I've heard people use differring definitions.

[Lynk Former]

High Definition isn't exactly nextgen, at least not at the moment... it's just an upgrade to be blunt. Just like how you have a 15" monitor running 800x600 and you upgrade to a 21" running 1600x1200. In the days of the NES, yes, a more powerful machine was considered to be a big thing because at that time we didn't really know what these machines were capable of. As the years progress we've come from a 2D spite environment into a 3D environment full of polygons. The first generation to fully utilise this was the PS1/N64 generation. The second is today’s generation, the DC/PS2/GCN/Xbox generation. This generation has added more power, it's essentially the same as the last generation but with more power, faster machines with more grunt.

 

The PS3 and Xbox360 are continuing this trend, however it's clear that the PS3 and Xbox360 are just supercharged current generation systems. Other than the fact that you're gonna get better visuals and bigger games, there hasn't been any effort to try to make videogames more efficient, the interface is the same, the games will be essentially what you have been playing for the last 9 years except they will look VERY COOL.

 

I can understand if all you want is a cool looking game the way you've been playing it for all these years. But there are still a lot of people that are getting bored of playing the same thing over and over. I'm a gamer, I have played through every system with all sorts of games and I'm getting sick of all of these clones.

 

The Revolution is a welcome change, and I have to clarify something. The interface that the NRV is using isn't anything that new, the thing that makes it so special is the fact that it's being used for a videogames console for the first time and that Nintendo have taken the chance to add a new dynamic layer to videogames.

 

We all knew that every generation of videogame console will get progressively more powerful, but who can honestly say they expected what the Revolution represents?

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

"I can understand if all you want is a cool looking game the way you've been playing it for all these years. But there are still a lot of people that are getting bored of playing the same thing over and over. I'm a gamer, I have played through every system with all sorts of games and I'm getting sick of all of these clones."

 

What do you want to play?

[Lynk Former]

I want developers to let their imaginations go absolutely nuts.

[stingerhs]

^^^^

unfortunately, it seems that the "average gamer" seems to be more and more geared towards rehashes and established gameplay which severely limits a game designer's imagination. why do i say that? because sales figures from the last couple of years prove it. take games like the absolutely fantastic 'Psychonauts'. a lot of innovation and very creative thought went into that game. guess what?? it's sales figures were well below what its publisher had originally forecasted. despite the innovations, it was a resounding flop.

 

now, take games like 'Madden 2k6'. there was about two or three new features that distinguished it from the previous Madden title, including the cover art. guess what?? it was the best selling sports title of 2005.

 

the gaming industry is very much a capitalist industry. that means the products it produces are going to follow the cash flows, and that means few innovations, lots of rehashes, and quite frankly, a lot more of the same 'ol-same 'ol.

 

and i still say that next-generation games are years away. these "next-gen" games and systems coming out are just upgraded versions of the same stuff we've been seeing since the first Playstations arrived. yeah, it has loads better graphics and more intuitive gameplay, but little has really changed. heck, Sony hasn't hardly changed the basic controller on the PS3 from the original Playstation, and the 360 isn't any better since all Micro$oft did was to move two buttons around. the Revolution is a welcome departure, but i'm still convinced that some sort of gamepad attachement that negates the motion sensing thing is going to become a more popular use for the controller.

 

i really hate being negative about all of this, but unfortunately, its that way things are going.

[Astrotoy7]

But the real question is... When the hell am I gonna get to play Twilight Princess dammit?!

 

lolz...what's it been now...2-3 years ?? better be good ! It's the main reason Im hangin oto my gc for just a little while longer

 

I wonder what the next-next gen will be - Surely develop gaming systems isnt just a case of making games at higher rez...

 

mtfbwya

[Lynk Former]

@ stingerhs:

 

That's because the marketting sucked for Psychonauts. New and creative ideas are always the ones that need that extra effort to get awareness out of the masses. Once you do get that awareness you'll get the kind of success a game like The Sims has gotten. It's true that the average gamer will stick to only what they are familiar with, but it's also true that most gamers, who are casual gamers don't actually know what they want so they will try different kinds of games and experiment until they find what they like.

 

Madden is a great example of marketting, Madden is a brand name and that name has been used well, just like how you can make a really crappy Star Wars game but know people will buy it simply because it's Star Wars. Again, as I said before, with something new you will have to get awareness out of people.

 

Being negative about these things is only natural. But just take a look at current trends. The success of Geometry Wars and Xbox Live Arcade as well as the success of the Nintendo DS over the PSP. Creativity and alternative gaming can be sold successfully, you just need to market it and get people aware of what you're trying to sell them in the first place.

 

You should also note that the Nintendo 64 had an analog stick. The PlayStation didn't... then it suddenly had TWO Analog sticks, the next line of consoles had two analog sticks on the controls. Same applies with the rumble technology. The funny thing is that people claimed these things to be gimmicky at the time as well, saying it wouldn't work and that it would fail. It didn't. The same thing was said about the Nintendo DS which was labelled a gimmick and everyone thought that the games on it would suck, Nintendo would fail and the PSP would rule all... then there's Spore, a game that is extremely creative and will do extremely well.

 

I'd continue with this but I'm hungry...

 

 

@ astro:

 

A delayed Zelda game is a good Zelda game. It worked for Ocarina of Time, and it was proven when The Wind Waker wasn't delayed when it was supposed to have been.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

@Lynk, Well, if the devs would just read these forums and see but a small piece of my brilliance, and pay me a kings ransom, they would then behold gameplay beyond their wildest nuts:D

 

Psychonauts owner in the hizzay!!!

 

@Stinger, which NG camp are you mainly in?

[Lynk Former]

Yeah I have a lot of videogame ideas too just like a lot of people out there, it's a shame that so many ideas never see the light of day but I guess that's just the way things go.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

*cough* holowan *cough*

*shoves lynk onto D3's turf*

Le's see dem ideas;)

[Lynk Former]

Put away the ruler REDJOHNNYMIKE, this ain't some penis measuring contest.

 

But if you do want an example, I did post up an idea I had to improve Starfox aaaaaages ago somewhere in LF but I can't remember where. I think I've also posted up an idea for a tactical FPS game that didn't involved individual levels somewhere too.

[Renegade Puma]

I own the 360. I am very impressed with it. I haven't had a single problem! I love it to death, it is an amazing machine!

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

@Lynk, Chill mon, I wasn't getting all showdown on ya, I meant that if you have such good ideas they should be shared with us through the magic that is HOLOWAN (heavenly choirs start chanting) I'm sure your concepts are quite good:D

[Lynk Former]

I'm confused as to why you bring Holowan up at all since the game ideas I'm talking about go beyond modifications, simple or otherwise. I'm talking full games here, from start to finish and all the extras included.