Non-false Jedi Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 One of the major problems i had with TSL was the idea it was pedalling that contradiced the movies completly. Kreia seems to think that the force controls everything and that nobody has any free will, so she tried to "kill the force". And she says she loves you because the exile lives "without the force" We also hear that perhaps life without the force is not the punishment it was thought to be. The Jedi Council says that they sensed an emptiness in the exile when (s)he was brought before them. And they felt like they were staring into the death of the force. Now fine, perhaps after the horros of war he witnessed a void of feeling isn't really that much of a stretch, but the game treats the force as it it is compeltly independent or even unnatural to life. The mandalorians say "no use of your force" in the battle circle as if one can turn if off. But the Mandalorians being alive draw from the force aswell! Most of the lore of the game is whisptered to us through a manipulative (and i'm convinced) mad-woman, who wants to kill destiny which is why this whole thing is confusing, but i get the distinct impression that unlike everything else we've ever heard from star wars...The Sith Lords promotes that idea that the force isn't connected to life, its just something that you can turn away form completly. Anyone else have any opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbag Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 The Mandalorian thing is that they don't want you to use the Force for battle, not to turn it off. The Exile stripped himself from the Force to survive. And Kreia is not mad, just complicated. If you get to know her and things, you understand why she is as she is... I hate her but pity her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibro Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Yes, the Mandalorians don't want you to turn off the force, merely not to use it against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-false Jedi Posted March 4, 2006 Author Share Posted March 4, 2006 fine that was just a minor point in my "thesis" anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbag Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 You are wrong about Kreia thinking the Force controls everything... she merely sais she hates that the Force seems to have a will, and can affect things. And The Exile turning away from the Force made him survive, but also made him to be a wound in the Force, a being that should not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-false Jedi Posted March 4, 2006 Author Share Posted March 4, 2006 on the Academy on Telos, she suggests Revan didn't have any choice to defeat Malak, that it was somehow all the force's doin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbag Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 So? That doesn't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-false Jedi Posted March 4, 2006 Author Share Posted March 4, 2006 what are we talking about here? That the force controls peoples free will or that it has a destiny? Kreia keeps going on about hte force guiding the party places for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibro Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 You've completely lost me. What's this discussion all about? Whether all life is "touched" by the force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Here's how I view the issue: All life is touched by the Force to some degree - the Jedi and Sith are simply more in tune with it, and are able to feel it more freely. What Kreia was saying was not that the Force controlled every aspect of mortal life, but that it seemed to guide events to a certain outcome, and that she wanted life to be free of its influence. The Exile was improtant because she/he was a whole in the Force, one that could use the Force, but not truly feel it. The Exile was an echo, a void in the Force. Kreia wanted to use her/him to deafen the galaxy to the Force, essentially killing it. This is not, as it seems, a contradiction of the believe that without the Force, life could not exist. The Force would live on, but would be unable to influence the events of the galaxy any longer. Why she wanted to do this, and why she hated the Force, I really don't know. When she says that Revan had no choice but to destory Malak, I think she meant that the Force wanted Malak's death, and that Revan should be the one to bring him down. Why the Force wished Revan to stop Malak, or even why it wanted Malak stopped, nobody can be sure. The Mandalorians, like all life, feel the Force, but only distantly - not even aware that it's there. When they tell you to not use the Force in the battle circle, they don't mean that you can just turn it off, but that you must refrain from using your Force powers in the battle, giving you an unfair advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I view the Force sort of like a sixth sense. Just like some people have better hearing or eyesight than others, some people have more of the Force in them. The more Force power you have, the more you can utilize it. You can actually 'turn off' or ignore your senses--'hysterical blindness' is one example, and many of us have seen the guy who walks across hot coals or lays on a bed of nails but says he feels no pain. I think the turning away from the Force is also like that--it's still there, but the user, for whatever reason, is not able or chooses not to utilize that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Life without the force, makes me think of the Yuuzhan Vong, who are essentially force-dead, which I guess means a midi-chlorian count of 0. They're a perfect example of life without the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbieZ Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I don't think life would be any different without the force. It's just what they say because they are afraid to lose it. So if you did take it away from them, they'd realise it doesnt make them any different. Just like the human race loosing the ability of Kittens or Cherry Pie, if it's permanantly gone we can still live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 That was the point of my mentioning the Yuuzhan Vong. The exist fine without the Force, although they are a bunch of religious fanatics, but there's probably no corellation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point Man Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I think The Force is like God: you can deny its existence, and even turn your back and ignore it, but that does not make it cease to exist. Kreia was angry with The Force in the same way some people get angry with God when life does not go the way they want. However, she was deluding herself if she thought she or The Exile could bring about the end of The Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 The Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, pentetrates us and binds the galaxy together. Most people don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calda Raric Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 nice quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Without the force... you would hate technology and start a weird religious cult... On the plus side, tentacle hentai seems to be commonplace. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Without the force... you would hate technology and start a weird religious cult... On the plus side, tentacle hentai seems to be commonplace. :3 Ok, maybe the Yuuzhan Vong are a bad example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz1978 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 One of the major problems i had with TSL was the idea it was pedalling that contradiced the movies completly. This wound in/death of the force thing didn't make much sense to me. Other things made a lot of sense IMO. Kreia seems to think that the force controls everything and that nobody has any free will, so she tried to "kill the force". First of all I don't believe that this was her motivation. I think she wanted the Exile to become "complete". O.k. Kreia believes that nobody has any free will. In K1 Bastila said that feeling the force means ultimate free will. Maybe they are both right? What is free will? Do you possess free will? Let's say you can walk out of the door right now and buy ... I don't know... some peanut butter. And because you got lots of free will you're free to do it in nothing but your underpants! But if you do it, what made you do it? Our whole personality and therefore our ambitions are a product of the (social) environment we grew up in, without this influence we would be only empty shells... So what about free will, now? Some time ago I discussed this matter with someone who's married to a psychologist and he refused to accept my point and insisted on free will being a mere illusion. I took that as a proof of my opinion that it all depends on the personal point of view... And she says she loves you because the exile lives "without the force" Didn't she say it was because the Exile was no real Jedi? The Jedi Council says that they sensed an emptiness in the exile when (s)he was brought before them. And they felt like they were staring into the death of the force. Ok, that's what they see. Visas/Disciple think differently... The mandalorians say "no use of your force" in the battle circle as if one can turn if off. But the Mandalorians being alive draw from the force aswell! This doesn't make much sense from a Jedi's point of view. They meant actual force powers and have a different understanding of the force but they seem to be unaware that a Jedi draws his physical strength from the force also. Most of the lore of the game is whisptered to us through a manipulative (and i'm convinced) mad-woman, Until the end of the 19th century behavior and thinking aberrant from moral standard was considered as madness. People from that time would agree with you. But madness is a concept that totally lacks any sort of rules whether or not it can be applied to someone. As for Kreia she doesn't show any obvious signs of a mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The Mandalorian thing is that they don't want you to use the Force for battle, not to turn it off. My guess is that they don't understand that the Force touches all living things. It is around everyone and everything, in the rock, the tree, a person. Even the most skilled of warriors knows that there is that part that they rely on to survive. Some call it guts, some call it strength. The samurai and the warriors of old believed in balance and that to become skilled it must be brought into balance and the Force is like that; it brings the being into balance. If this sounds wierd forgive me for rambling. And Kreia is not mad, just complicated. If you get to know her and things, you understand why she is as she is... I hate her but pity her. Yeah Kreia was a manipulative witch. She...is complicated and for me it was hard to figure her out but one thing sticks in mind is when she sayd, "Perhaps I'm neither" This was in reference to the Are you a Sith question. She hates the Force yet she can't bear the though of being severed from it. I guess she is the epitome of what a person is when faced with a question like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbieZ Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 ... pentetrates us ... Wondered what that was last night, i thought it was just a sharp stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 If you read it was an energy field created by all living things, then you would know. Probably the best way to describe it is when you reach that point in your life when have an epiphany, a realization of truth. The Exile's dialogue has some good descriptions of that feeling when he speaks to the Handmaiden. It is not a sharp stick it is a feeling that washes over you. Remember the midichlorians speak to those who can hear them and they reveal the knowledge of the Force. If I am sounding to...philosophical, forgive me. Comparative religious study is a subspecialty of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbag Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I spent a lot of time to understand the Force, and I think I do. It is complicated, and my mind is set to a specific way of thinking, so worry not if you don't really get it... I know it doesn't exist (though I hope it does), but it's a interesting phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Ok, maybe the Yuuzhan Vong are a bad example. Then, any other example you can find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.