Force Power Suggestions

[Kurgan]

Something needs to be done about drain since it does nothing and maybe absorb (since its ratherly used) for the next build. I have a few possibilities.

 

1. Replace drain and absorb with sort of an automatic force block. The higher points you have at them, the more resistant you are to force.

 

Hmm, sort of like "Force Defense" from Mysteries of the Sith? Sounds very similar anyway.

 

2. same idea except make them about blaster resistance. Heck we could probably even have game modes that prohibit a certain level for both these ideas eventually. Since absorb isnt used very often, these ideas would kill two birds with one stone.

 

Well isn't damage defense what Protect already does? Granted, it could be tweaked or something I suppose, since it never stops all damage, only reduces it (which was how "shields" in Jedi Knight 1 worked, whereas the shields in JK2/JA now simply absorb damage until they are depleted; also the old Protection from JK1 would absorb all damage until the bubble was taken down, so it was a force shield basically, for reference).

 

I would caution about "not used very often" arguments though, because there are thousands of different players with many different styles. It's hard to pin down what "everybody" or "nobody" is doing I think. You can already ban individual force powers, but few admins do this well enough to be able to not create imbalances in the game (short of banning all force powers altogether, a better solution is limited force points, but few do this).

 

3. for drain, maybe make it so that when you use it on someone, they move really slowly.

 

Ah, Force Slow, this is interesting. It would certainly be annoying! But changing the speed of a player is certainly possible as it's already present in parts of the game (Rage recovery, force speed, etc).

 

4. Make drain cause the opponent to not be able to use force powers for a certain amount of time depending on how many points in it they have. Kind of like a dark cloud idea, but more generalizied.

 

Interesting. Again, something taken from gameplay, so it could work (Ysalamiri, Korriban crystals, etc)

 

5. Make drain block blasterbolts while in malee or else where like vader did to solo in episode 5. This idea could be combined with idea 2, but this would only work at the highest point level and only reduce DP drain by a bit.

 

comments? Preferences? Ideas?

 

That would be interesting. Would they have to target blaster bolts with their fists to block them (almost like having an "invsible lightsaber")? Or would they just automatically block all bolts while in Melee mode?

 

The real trick is balancing everything, the more gameplay changes the more of a challenge it can be. But some of these ideas sound cool.

[razorace]

hmmm, call me crazy, but I think a blaster bolt deflection ability would be something that would occur automatically whenever a powerful force user is attacked without his saber out.

[UDM]

I like it. Kind of like Vader in ESB, where Han shoots and Vader just pushes the bolt away

 

I think we should just agree on one thing: Jedi will and always shall be ub3r pwn4g3

[Vruki Salet]

I think the thing vader did should be pretty special. Under normal circumstances a jedi should pull his saber out real fast to deflect a bolt coming, assuming that he has a saber available and it's off. At least that should happen if his force sense ability and/or fp are high enough.

[UDM]

I read on some website that Vader had pushed the bolt away. Either that, or theoretically his armour was tough enough to absorb the bolt

 

It's possible, because the bolt is contained by a moving force field (again, read that somewhere). Therefore, if I exert enough energy, it should move the bolt away. Maybe this is a special type of force push that requires lots of force points?

[MisterM]

Drain:

Maybe do it like in Sp - so you have to be near another player to drain life

[Vruki Salet]

Drain:

Maybe do it like in Sp - so you have to be near another player to drain life

 

I agree with this.

[Maxstate]

I agree with this.

Goddamnit, this is the third time Im writing this, IE keeps crashing.

Switched over to Firefox now.

Aniwai, I agree as well and I have a couple of suggestions too:

 

Jump: The flip should make you jump higher, the "leap" should make you jump further horizontally.

 

Speed: SWBF2 sprint, "hold-to-use" with an x amount of fp drain per second. Lets call it fps for the time being.

 

Absorb: Make it "hold-to-use" and have it make your player hold out his hand push or lightning style. Now, any hostile powers that hit you in the small arc infront of your hand will be neutralised and they should add to your FP.

The power should also drain an X amount of FPS for you to restrict spam and emulate the state of deep concentration for jedi.

 

Grip should become Force manipulate.

I've had 2 ideas, both require a small bit of coding:

 

First is to get random objects spawned randomly across a map, and make grip affect them like it would an npc so that you can pick up the objects.

You could use Force push to fling the objects at your opponent, damaging them.

 

Other idea is to make npcs and bots get affected by other npcs and bots that hit them at an accelerated rate, example: Group of stormies, I pick one up, lift him off the ground and push him at his mates, making them fall over and get damaged.

 

I've got more ofcourse, lets see how these work out.

[Beast Boy]

Grip should become Force manipulate.

I've had 2 ideas, both require a small bit of coding:

 

First is to get random objects spawned randomly across a map, and make grip affect them like it would an npc so that you can pick up the objects.

You could use Force push to fling the objects at your opponent, damaging them.

 

Other idea is to make npcs and bots get affected by other npcs and bots that hit them at an accelerated rate, example: Group of stormies, I pick one up, lift him off the ground and push him at his mates, making them fall over and get damaged.

 

I've got more ofcourse, lets see how these work out.

 

That's a cool idea.

[Sushi_CW]

I like the idea of Absorb being a hold-down power, or maybe toggleable on-of without a huge initial FP drain (just a constant drain while it's on). Likewise for Protect and Rage: One to increase your defense, the other your offense, costing you extra FP while active without completely hosing your FP meter in one use. Drain could be retooled into a "slow", I think that would work well.

[JRHockney*]

When I was fighting jack the other night, I realised that if someone has one forcepower point higher than you for a power such as push or pull, they have full access to using it on you whenever they want. This is very spammable and needs to change in my opinion. If anything it should work like this using push as an example:

no levels higher, only access to back pushes at low DP, anyjumps at low DP, and running swings at low DP

1 level higher = only can push jumps at any level of DP and maybe running swings

2 levels higher = can push jumps and running at any level of DP.

3 levels higher = full access.

[Sushi_CW]

Spammable, but easily preventable. Just modify your force settings.

[Maxstate]

Spammable, but easily preventable. Just modify your force settings.

 

I don't think everyone with a server should be arsed to go bugging around with settings everytime OJP releases something new. It's already complex enough to get the hang of teh saber system.

[razorace]

hmm, I think what it does is make the power of the push be based on the the difference between the powers. The idea being that a more powerful force user would be able to overpower a weaker user of the Force.

[JRHockney*]

hmm, I think what it does is make the power of the push be based on the the difference between the powers. The idea being that a more powerful force user would be able to overpower a weaker user of the Force.

 

yeah, but all you have to do to spam somebody is make sure you have a point higher on something, and when they adjust to stop the spamming, you just find another power to be more powerful and spam again. Hopefully, the idea I have put above will prevent that. OJP should always remain a "no spam zone" in my opinion and this is an obvious way to spam.

 

The best thing about beta testing with Jack is that he spams the heck out of everything he suspects is spammable until he is proven wrong or right. He was definitely right in this case.

[Sushi_CW]

What I meant was that the player can simply adjust his force settings to max out push and pull. If you want to be immune to those powers, you pay the price, and that works for me. That's how it already works in base JA, and I think it's a good way to go.

 

The only "spam" moves we need to worry about are the ones without a good counter. In this case, the counter is very easy: adjust your force powers and no need to worry about it anymore.

[JRHockney*]

What I meant was that the player can simply adjust his force settings to max out push and pull. If you want to be immune to those powers, you pay the price, and that works for me. That's how it already works in base JA, and I think it's a good way to go.

 

The only "spam" moves we need to worry about are the ones without a good counter. In this case, the counter is very easy: adjust your force powers and no need to worry about it anymore.

 

As long as you can do it without dying for it to take effect, otherwise this is still going to be spammable as heck. Even if you can do that. your still likely to get pushed or what not into a pit before you can fix it. I dont know how base players live with that, and ours would be worse since ours knocks people down. Coming from MB2, that would drive me insane.

 

It would be like this:

find the force power they dont have maxed out and push them, pull them, lightning them or grip them into a pit. When they adjust, find another that they dont have and repeat. When they have them all take advantage of what they dont have. Losing a fight? Push or what ever else he doesn't have full until he's dead.

 

I'm sorry but this would make playing almost intolerable for me personally, even if its not used much, I'd know its possible. And if it is used, I dont want to have to go into each game with all the pushing abilities maxed out. I'm sorry but think we should think more along the lines of MB2 when balancing this rather than base. Like Razor has said before, OJP does not allow spam if it can help it[/end paraphrase].

[razorace]

Hocky, you make a good point. Just keep bugging me about it and we'll have to give that a shot.

[JRHockney*]

Hocky, you make a good point. Just keep bugging me about it and we'll have to give that a shot.

 

No problem. LOL

[da_chimp]

with force drain you should make it so you have to be in physical contact with the person your draining for example you grab em by th throght lift em off the ground and suck the life out of emand the different lvls increase the range from point blank to around 2 metres which is about 3 yards i think

[razorace]

I'll admit that I don't think drain is a movie-realistic move, even if it's cool to do ingame.

[Kurgan]

It might help explain how Palpatine was able to beat those Jedi so easily in Episode III.

[UDM]

Palpatine's a n00b

[Maxstate]

Palpatine's a n00b

They really made a faggot out of Mace, he should've stabbed him when he had the chance.

[razorace]

Hocky has brought up a good issue. We really need to come up with a standard way of handling force power level differences, especially if we want to have a experience system.

 

Here's what Hocky suggested...

only access to back pushes at low DP, anyjumps at low DP, and running swings at low DP

1 level higher = only can push jumps at any level of DP and maybe running swings

2 levels higher = can push jumps and running at any level of DP.

3 levels higher = full access.

Maybe this should apply to all of the Force Powers?