Building a Computer: A few Questions

[stingerhs]

actually, what SpaceAlex is telling you about the card being overclocked is not false information. if you were to have bought the same video card (the 7900 GT) straight from Nvidia, the clock speeds would've been lower by 70MHz on the core and 180MHz on the memory. what XFX does is to overclock the video card in the card's BIOS so things can run faster.

 

now, whether or not your cards are causing the problem is something i'm not sure of. you might want to try searching around on the internet and even (gasp!) calling tech support to check and see if it is a video card related problem.

 

edit: ok, i seem to have run into my own little problem. i'm building a computer for a friend, and i already have all the hardware put together. i also have Windows XP SP1 installed (he wanted to wait till his next paycheck before he picked up the Windows disk since you have 30 days to register. so i'm using an old disk i had lying around). the problem started happening after installing DX9c from the Driver CD that came with the video card and it forced me to reboot, which i didn't want it to do.

 

after the reboot, Windows would start to boot, and then a black screen would flash up with the just the mouse curser on screen. after about 1-2 seconds, the cursor would disappear and nothing would happen. concerned that it might be a weird setting with the motherboard BIOS, i reset the computer and tried to enter the BIOS. as i press the 'Delete' key to enter the BIOS, it gives me a confirmation that the BIOS are booting. however, instead of the BIOS booting, a quick message asking me to set up the RAID array flashes up for just a second before i get yet another black screen with no activity (the fans are still running, so i know the mobo is still running).

 

so far, i'm stumped since there are no error beeps telling me if something is wrong, and i can't even boot from the DVD drive since i can't go into the BIOS and set the boot priority. i've tried resetting the BIOS via the jumper settings on the mobo, but to no avail.

 

the specs:

ASUS K8N-SLI Deluxe mobo

Crucial DDR-400 memory (1GB)

NEC DVD burner drive

Seagate Baracuda SATA 3.0Gb HD (80GB) (not connected to a RAID slot)

AMD Athlon64 3800 X2

Aspire 420W PSU (came with the case, or it would've been a 500W Thermaltake)

BFG GeForce 7900 GT (not hooked into SLi mode since there's only one card)

Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi

Linksys Wireless Card (via a PCI slot)

 

i think its two seperate problems. the one with Windows is easy enough to sort out since i can just wipe the drive and start over with the Windows install. the problem is getting into the BIOS so that i can set the boot priority.

 

any ideas/help would be greatly appriciated.

[Bob Lion54]

Wow. Whats going one here? New computer Freak-Out Month?

This might be a dumb question, but can you get windows to start in safe mode?

 

As to my problem, I was telling another Guildie about it. He said it might be a memory leak with my RAM or something. This seems plausable because when I restart Windows, everything is back to normal. I played DDO for two hours, I got the 'Screen going Black problem" but was able to check my temp. Highest it got to was 58. So there goes that theory.

 

Now to test the RAM!

 

And Good luck stingerhs. I don't even know what to tell you. Thats the craziest probem I've heard in a while...

 

EDIT:

You know, you might just want to change the title of the tread to "Building a Computer : A Few Problems." hehe

[stingerhs]

well, i took out the mobo battery and replaced it with a fresh one. well, it actually fixed both problems for about 20-30min before the same set of problems reared their ugly heads. i'm thinking it might be a bad motherboard, but if anybody else has some ideas, then i'm open to suggestions.

 

@BobLion54- good luck, man. sounds like an issue the devs of the game should fix in a patch.

[MTV2]

No it's not. The A8N32-SLI beat it in nearly every benchmark. And on the ones it where it didn't beat it, the ASUS A8R-MVP beat it.

ummm, no it didn't. it ties with the A8N32-SLI and sometimes like just better by lless than 1% or worse. and also, benchmarks arent everything, how many slots it has, type of cooling, type of Ram, etc. basically, its a good board to get since it has tons of room to upgrade with

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

ummm, no it didn't. it ties with the A8N32-SLI and sometimes like just better by lless than 1% or worse. and also, benchmarks arent everything, how many slots it has, type of cooling, type of Ram, etc. basically, its a good board to get since it has tons of room to upgrade with

The ASUS board has more PCI slots. Cooling is a moot point, motherboards are generally more affected by case cooling than the onboard cooling solution. DDR-400 is the current standard for motherboards right now, you'd be hard pressed to find anything faster. The ASUS and the MSI are the same size. The MSI board managed to take first on one or two benchmarks (PCMark05), on any benchmarks that a gamer is looking for however (OGL, DX8, DX9), the A8N32 beats it. And I can say from first hand expirience that ASUS has a much better software bundle and the BIOS is much better for overclocking. The MSI BIOS seemed to be a bit too simplistic-it was designed for beginners, but it's still more difficult to auto-overclock than the ASUS and you only get a slight clockspeed increase.

 

@Bob Lion54-

Anyway, I was actually having the same problem, only with F.E.A.R. I ended up solving the problem with a driver update and by setting my video cards to their default speeds. I had this problem with Oblivion as well, but it was fixed by the beta patch, so you could try underclocking your card, updating your drivers, and patching the game.

 

@stingerhs-

You could try just using the single drive until you can configure the motherboard. The Silicon Image RAID that the nForce4 uses is miserable at best and it requires you to set up a RAID array or at least start the RAID drivers under certain circumstances. Even having it start has caused problems for me

[stingerhs]

actually, the drive isn't in a RAID array (its plugged into a normal SATA slot on the mobo), which is one reason why that little message puzzles me a bit.

 

and i'm still not understanding the problem very much. how important is that little battery??

[MTV2]

Asus is better for overclockers and gamers while MSI is for beginners who want a good mobo. Leave it at that.

 

 

 

I have a question: I'm planning on getting the A8N32-SLI or the A8N-SLI Deluxe, but right now i have a P4R800-V Deluxe. i have 1gig (2x512mb) of ram (by Samsung). would those same sticks of ram work in the A8N's (DDR 400 / 333 / 266) ? is there any way i can find out what my ram frequency is without taking the memory out?

[SpaceAlex]

Hmm, it does sound like a motherboard problem, stingerhs. However, it could also be the PSU problem.

 

Are these your PSU spec: 420W. +3.3V/20A, +5V/25A, +12V/13A, -12V/0.8A, -5V/0.3A, +5VSB/2.0A. If so, it's not enough to power such a computer. Don't even think about SLI, as they're hardly enough as it is. I would suggest atleast a 500W PSU with 70%+ efficiency and dual (or more) +12V rails. Even if you don't want to go SLI, i suggest that you look for SLI-Ready PSU. You can't go wrong with that one.

 

Even if it turns out that some other component was causing trouble, i still suggest a better PSU. Espcially if your friend wants to do some overclocking. Even if not, a better PSU would solve any crash related problems that might occur in the future.

[stingerhs]

i had a funny feeling that it might be related to the power supply, but i'm still not sure if that will solve the problem. and since buying a new power supply is going to cost even more money, i really hope it doesn't come to that.

 

still, thanks for the advise.

[SpaceAlex]

I have a couple of pretty good PSupplies lying aroung here. Wish i could send one to you for testing lol.

[Bob Lion54]

@Bob Lion54-

Anyway, I was actually having the same problem, only with F.E.A.R. I ended up solving the problem with a driver update and by setting my video cards to their default speeds. I had this problem with Oblivion as well, but it was fixed by the beta patch, so you could try underclocking your card, updating your drivers, and patching the game.

Actually, I played WoW today for 4 hours with no problems. I maxed out all the settings. I still think one of my cards is bad from how it acted in Madden, but this seems to be a game issue with DDO and not one with my computer!! At least thats what Im hopping.

 

My guess is DDO dosen't work well with my card/drivers for some reason. If thats the case, they (nVidia or Turbine)should fix it. (I hope)

[stingerhs]

well, to update my problem, i now know that it wasn't a PSU related issue. i bought him a BFG 650W PSU. whatever the problem is, it isn't the PSU.

[SpaceAlex]

well, to update my problem, i now know that it wasn't a PSU related issue. i bought him a BFG 650W PSU. whatever the problem is, it isn't the PSU.

 

Consider the motherboard as the last thing to replace (though the problem most probably is the motherboard). If you have another PCIE graphic card, test it (hey, you never know). If it gives you the same errors, then it surely must be the mobo (bought many bad "out of the box" mobos in my lifetime, so it wouldn't really be that much of a surprise)

 

Also, don't feel too bad about the PSU. The old one might cause problems in the future because it was really too weak. The new beast will serve you much better.

[stingerhs]

well, this is an interesting development. it may not be related to the battery nor the PSU afterall. if the computer runs for about 45mins or longer, the computer will then refuse to boot up properly or enter the BIOS if you have to restart it. however, if the computer is left alone for about 2-3hrs, it will boot right back up with no hassles.

 

i don't get it. the wait period usually indicates a heat problem, but the case ambient is only about 45C with the CPU @38C and the GPU @51C with everything under serious load (we've installed Oblivion ). any ideas??

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

well, this is an interesting development. it may not be related to the battery nor the PSU afterall. if the computer runs for about 45mins or longer, the computer will then refuse to boot up properly or enter the BIOS if you have to restart it. however, if the computer is left alone for about 2-3hrs, it will boot right back up with no hassles.

 

i don't get it. the wait period usually indicates a heat problem, but the case ambient is only about 45C with the CPU @38C and the GPU @51C with everything under serious load (we've installed Oblivion ). any ideas??

You've probably already thought of this, but what driver versions are you using? The 7900-series was causing crashes with a lot of different driver versions when it came out, so perhaps updating all of the drivers may help?

[stingerhs]

i don't think its a driver related issue since the problem started occuring before i got around to installing the stock video drivers that came with the card. we've since updated the drivers to the FW84.43b drivers to run Oblivion (which runs just slightly better than my system, hehe).

 

since we can get the system to run very well for hours on end, i'm about to tell him to just live with the problem. but thats going to be a pain in the arse when he wants to update drivers or install anything that requires a reboot.

[Bob Lion54]

@BobLion54- good luck, man. sounds like an issue the devs of the game should fix in a patch.

HAHA!!! Yes! Its not my computer after all. (Well, it kinda is.)

 

http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33192

 

Sometimes you have to log in to see the thread, but basically it boils down to the 7900GT using 1.2volts when it should use 1.4volts (as the 7800s do.)

 

There is a link in the thread about how to Volt-mod you card to use 1.4volts. I really don't wan't to do this beacuse you have to physically alter the card. I'm hoping there is a possibility of a patch or driver update.

 

In fact, this might be what is causing your problems too, stingerhs. I'm not sure, but its a possiblility. If you are adventurous try V-modding the card. Here is the link someone posted on the DDO forums- http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=1847758

[stingerhs]

haha!! i finally figured out the problem. as it turns out, the problem wasn't even remotely related to the computer at all. after he played Oblivion for a couple of hours, my friend noticed that the monitor was getting really, really warm to the point that you could feel the heat radiating from it several inches away. on a hunch, he hooked it up to his old computer, and suddenly that computer had the same exact problem.

 

now i know why it was a refurbished monitor, and since the 15 days aren't up yet, we're just going to return the monitor to NewEgg and get a new one. its a shame, though. that ViewSonic had one heck of a great picture.

[SpaceAlex]

haha!! i finally figured out the problem. as it turns out, the problem wasn't even remotely related to the computer at all. after he played Oblivion for a couple of hours, my friend noticed that the monitor was getting really, really warm to the point that you could feel the heat radiating from it several inches away. on a hunch, he hooked it up to his old computer, and suddenly that computer had the same exact problem.

 

now i know why it was a refurbished monitor, and since the 15 days aren't up yet, we're just going to return the monitor to NewEgg and get a new one. its a shame, though. that ViewSonic had one heck of a great picture.

 

LOL..this is indeed very funny. It's certainly the last thing i would consider broken. If something goes wrong with my computer (picture showing related), i will consider my monitor as a suspect too from now on.

 

I still hope you keep the PSU though.

[SpaceAlex]

HAHA!!! Yes! Its not my computer after all. (Well, it kinda is.)

 

http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33192

 

Sometimes you have to log in to see the thread, but basically it boils down to the 7900GT using 1.2volts when it should use 1.4volts (as the 7800s do.)

 

There is a link in the thread about how to Volt-mod you card to use 1.4volts. I really don't wan't to do this beacuse you have to physically alter the card. I'm hoping there is a possibility of a patch or driver update.

 

In fact, this might be what is causing your problems too, stingerhs. I'm not sure, but its a possiblility. If you are adventurous try V-modding the card. Here is the link someone posted on the DDO forums- http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=1847758

 

 

If that's the only game you're getting problems at, then too low voltage could be the problem.

 

Volt modding a card is very dangerous however, as you probably already know. If you kill your card because you drew a wrong line it will void your warranty, so you can just say goodbye to it. If you carefully follow the guide this is hardly going to happen though. The GPU volt mod (that's really the only thing that you have to modify) is very easy to do on that card. You don't even need to have any experiance with that sort of thing.

 

You could also go to http://www.mvktech.net/, download nibitor, extract your current bios from you card (instructions how to do that are listed on the site), open bios with nibitor, modify the GPU voltage, save the BIOS and flash it with NvFlash utility (also found on that site). Doing this might even be more risky than physicly modify the voltage because, unlike motherboards, the graphic cards were not designed to be flashed. And there's also no guarantee that modifying a bios will do the trick.

 

I did bios flash a few graphic cards already though, and so far all flashes i did were successful. But that doesn't really say much, does it?

 

In any case, whatever you want to do, it's your choice. You can just stop playing that game if you don't want to do a volt mod, or live with the annoying "black screen" bug.

 

I also doubt that Nvidia will be able to fix it with a driver release, since drivers don't modify the voltage. They might be able to fix it some other way, but not with voltage modification.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

haha!! i finally figured out the problem. as it turns out, the problem wasn't even remotely related to the computer at all. after he played Oblivion for a couple of hours, my friend noticed that the monitor was getting really, really warm to the point that you could feel the heat radiating from it several inches away. on a hunch, he hooked it up to his old computer, and suddenly that computer had the same exact problem.

 

now i know why it was a refurbished monitor, and since the 15 days aren't up yet, we're just going to return the monitor to NewEgg and get a new one. its a shame, though. that ViewSonic had one heck of a great picture.

That was... unexpected.