Windu Chi Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Heh, hardly any room for debate. Sidious was the stronger one by far. It seemed like a very strange coincidence that he lost his lightsaber at that time. The perfect time, in fact, for Anakin to come in. No, he decided that should happen. Seems quite strange that he would whine about being too weak to do anything one second, and then be able to blast someone out a window with Force lightning the next. Everything seemed far too coincidental to have happened by chance. Well, of course you are going to cheer for Sidious, I mean look at your avatar. No question who's your fan, Devon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Sidious would still kick Mace's @$$. Sidious id the perfect epitamy of the Dark Side, just like Yoda is for the Light Side. If you can tell me how Mace would win, i would eat my words, literally. And look at you Windu6. Mace is in you avy/sig. It's no wonder you're rooting for Mace. And another thing, why do most people think Mace is the most powerful Jedi, what about Yoda? I'm pretty certain Yoda would pwn Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windu Chi Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Sidious would still kick Mace's @$$. Sidious id the perfect epitamy of the Dark Side, just like Yoda is for the Light Side. If you can tell me how Mace would win, i would eat my words, literally. I was basing my assertion on Mace fighting style in the Ep. III game, but since Sidious wasn't available in that game, of course I can't truly compare them yet, until I can play a Jedi game where you can fight with Sidious.But, Mace Windu's Vaapad Jedi fighting form is so deadly and quick I think if he was given a fair chance he would have properly defeated Darth Sidious. Do anybody know Darth Sidious Jedi fighting form? And look at you Windu6. Mace is in you avy/sig. It's no wonder you're rooting for Mace. Yeah, you got me there. And another thing, why do most people think Mace is the most powerful Jedi, what about Yoda? I'm pretty certain Yoda would pwn Mace. Well, base on the Clone Wars cartoon with Yoda the power Yoda show with him lifting and destroying droid landing ships on Coruscant, one would say he can kick Mace Windu ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Phobos Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Fluke or fair fight? More like a poorly done scene but my in-universe opinion tells me that it was a fair fight and Sidious lost. But I also think of course that Sidious meant to lose, feeling that Anakin was coming closer, who knows... from the scene... I really can't tell what his motives are. I mean if he kills Mace Windu... then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henz Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I mean if he kills Mace Windu... then what? Tell ani they attacked him? I don't think he got a chance to think on that as mostly he'd be trying to kill him to stay alive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK-42 Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Well Sidious could have easily killed him if he was SMART. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 ^exactly, If Mace and Sidious were put in a fight to the death, no interruptions and they both were aware of the other person's abilities, I think Sidious would win. So I think Sidious let him win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaelastraz Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I was basing my assertion on Mace fighting style in the Ep. III game, but since Sidious wasn't available in that game, of course I can't truly compare them yet, until I can play a Jedi game where you can fight with Sidious.But, Mace Windu's Vaapad Jedi fighting form is so deadly and quick I think if he was given a fair chance he would have properly defeated Darth Sidious. Do anybody know Darth Sidious Jedi fighting form? Well, base on the Clone Wars cartoon with Yoda the power Yoda show with him lifting and destroying droid landing ships on Coruscant, one would say he can kick Mace Windu ass. I don't think you should base your assumptions on anything other than Episode 3... You can't base anything on game mechanics. And the clone wars cartoon... aren't all Jedi there like 100 times stronger than in the movies ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windu Chi Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I don't think you should base your assumptions on anything other than Episode 3... You can't base anything on game mechanics. The game mechanics in the Episode 3 game match and surpass the combat mechanics in the Episode 3 movie. The combat in that game match the realistic combat in the movie so well I think it is a very good trustworthy source for comparing combat skills of some of the Jedi(like Mace Windu) in Episode III: ROTS movie. And the clone wars cartoon... aren't all Jedi there like 100 times stronger than in the movies ?Yeah, but the Star Wars EU don't ignore the clone wars cartoon; it accept it as connected to the rest of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Well, even if Palpatine was somewhat exaggerating the extent of his injuries, which he probably was, he had definitely been messed up by having all that force lightning deflected back into him. But either way, Mace Windu had already won the fight fair and square, Palpatine was down and he was about to finish him off. If not for Anakin showing up and letting the lies of Palpatine, his erratic emotions and the dark side cloud his judgment, Palpatine would have been finished right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I think that Mace won the fight. Sidious weakened himself to manipulate Anakin; however, we don't know what would have happened if Sidious was fighting his hardest. Personaaly I think that Mace would have won by a long shot! Mace is one of the best in the entire order for crying out loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripHammer Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 How much damage does this blue lightening do anyway? Vader takes a face shot before he tosses the emperor... light sabers can block it as exhibited in the emperor/Windu duel. It obviously was enough to finish off Vader... Luke could take a certain amount of it, I guess. Unless you're thinking is that the emperor was taking it easy on luke. I think Windu could indeed take the emperor. It seems to me I remember a story about Mace having not only Jedi training, but Sith training as well. Don't get all over my case because I can't remember where I got the story.. But I do remember talking about it one time. It might be in the books somewhere.. or it might be some idiot sprouting crap on some forum... but the discussion was something along the lines of Mace's light saber color... and how it's purple, red and blue, or Jedi and sith Kaiburr crystal colors... blah, blah, blah. I think the story follows this thinking well. I think his Sith Training would have convinced him that the courts would only work in Palpatine's favor.. and killing him then was the answer, irregardless of Jedi training. I think Windu is more powerful then the movies let on. And I'm no fan of Windu... Well.. let me rephrase that.. Maybe not so much Windu.. as Samuel Jackson's acting in the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I don't think the lightning "hurt" Luke so much, was because of the special affects at the time the movie was shot. Maybe I am missing something, but that was my guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garm_bel_iblis Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I've always imagined that the devastation and pain brought on by Force lightning was determined by who's controlling it. For example, Sidious was torturing Luke in Episode VI, kind of playing with his food before he eats it, so he was allowing Luke to live. When he blasts Yoda with it 20 or so years previously, however, he intentionally wants to catch him off guard and knock the "arrogant" little sucker right off his feet, but not necessarily torture him into submission (probably because Yoda would eventually blast him backwards). When Sidious electrocutes Mace, that's the death blast, what you really get when Sidious wants to kill you. That was especially horrific (especially for Star Wars) because when he has his hands chopped off the audience kind of says, "Oh man, he's dead, no absorbing it this time." One of the best scenes. As far as lightsaber combat though I think Mace had Sidious owned, but as soon as Anakin shows up Sidious know he's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 As far as Mace Windu's conduct near the end of the duel, I think he was acting properly. It is true that normally once opponents are clearly defeated that the Jedi would spare the lives of these opponents (for the moment) and the Jedi would then turn the criminals over to the normal Republic civil authorities for trial for their crimes. But this was a special circumstance. Palpatine had some officials in his pocket, either directly or through his alter ego as Sidious, he had corrupted some parts of the senate and had a certain degree of control over the courts, as well, so that he could effectively corrupt the judicial process. Meaning there was no way to be sure he would be convicted if he went to trial, even though he was guilty as sin. Not to mention the risk that he would use his henchmen to escape from prison before his trial could begin and flee from Coruscant only to go on with his efforts to destabilize the Republic from afar. Or run back to the Chancelor's office, trying to take back control of the Republic, all the while claiming that it was all some plot by the Jedi to take control of the government. Under those circumstances, considering the number of people that Palpatine had murdered in the war he caused, the fact that he was the sith lord they had been searching for all this time and they finally had him, and that there was a very real possibility that he would escape justice yet again if he were turned over for trial due to his corruption and control of the government, Mace Windu had little choice but to kill him right there. Sometimes it is simply necessary to take swift and decisive action to defeat evil, and this was one of those times when it was necessary to do that. It's a shame, really, the whole thing could have been over with right there. Palpatine's identity as the sith lord and his evil plans fully exposed, his corrupt henchmen dealt with, the war over and the Republic restored to peace, but for Anakin's weakness in resisting the dark side. But eventually, after a long struggle for 20 years, good did triumph over evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I've always imagined that the devastation and pain brought on by Force lightning was determined by who's controlling it. For example, Sidious was torturing Luke in Episode VI, kind of playing with his food before he eats it, so he was allowing Luke to live. When he blasts Yoda with it 20 or so years previously, however, he intentionally wants to catch him off guard and knock the "arrogant" little sucker right off his feet, but not necessarily torture him into submission (probably because Yoda would eventually blast him backwards). When Sidious electrocutes Mace, that's the death blast, what you really get when Sidious wants to kill you. That was especially horrific (especially for Star Wars) because when he has his hands chopped off the audience kind of says, "Oh man, he's dead, no absorbing it this time." One of the best scenes. As far as lightsaber combat though I think Mace had Sidious owned, but as soon as Anakin shows up Sidious know he's fine. Very well thought out! @Dunedain-- Regardless it isn't the "jedi-way" to kill unarmed oppenents. Sidious was unarmed; therefore, Mace was actually, by my opinion, treading on the darkside by wanting to "end the sith oppression once and for all". He was put in a very difficult situation. If I where mace I personally don't know what I would do. The choice was end Sidious's life and go to the darkside, or let Sidious stand trail (or possibly lose your own life) and stay on the lightside. That is in my opinion a very hard choice to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I wouldn't call someone who could use force lightning (especially to the degree Sidious could) Unarmed. Mace should have foreseen Anakins betrayal, and killed them both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripHammer Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Mace should have foreseen Anakins betrayal, and killed them both Indeed. Mace didn't trust Anakin... which is why he told him to stay at the temple... so perhaps Mace did see a betrayal in Anakin's nature... or perhaps he sensed enough confusion from Anakin to take the precaution of telling him to stay behind. Either way... as soon as Anakin showed up he became a danger and proved to Mace that indeed he couldn't be trusted. He should have been a target from that point on. But I don't think Mace would have been able to take Anakin. It would have been an interesting duel though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well, it doesn't matter really... If Mace did kill palpy he would be turned darkside... Well he would still take over the senate as the savior, and Yoda would have a really hard time beating him, if even possable. Anakin would certainly join him. The difference being there are more Jedis left in the way. So instead of a smooth transition to the Empire we get a total civilwar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 What in the world makes you think Mace Windu would have gone over to the dark side if he killed Palpatine? Jedi are supposed to kill sith lords (or others who go around mass murdering innocent people), that's the point of the duel if the sith refuses to surrender. For the reasons stated in my post above, the courts simply could not be trusted to convict and punish Palpatine for his crimes, and he certainly couldn't be allowed to escape to murder even more people. Therefore he had to be killed to stop him. Mace Windu didn't really have much choice under the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSeverus Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Except that Sidious made it at least look like he was begging for his life ('please don't kill me!' or something like that) so that counts as surrending to me (as far as it looked to Anakin and Mace), so I'm afraid Mace was about to commit murder (of an evil Sith Lord mabye but murder none the less). What was more interesting to me about Sidious mapiulations was how he made the situation parallel the situation with Anakin's earlier killing of Dooku where just after Anakin decapitates Dooku he says 'I shouldn't have done that, it's not the Jedi way,' where Palpy/Sidious assures him it was the right thing to do because Dooku was to dangerous to be left alive, and then when Mace is about to kill Sidious Anakin again says something like, 'you can't kill him, it isn't the Jedi way,' and Mace responds something along the lines of, 'he's to dangerous to be left alive,' and in doing that destroyed Anakin's last thread of faith in the truth of the Jedi code as being right and any better than the Sith that had been holding Anakin back from coming to Sidious's aid in the Mace/Sidious battle. After that he believed Sidious's lies and manipulations about the Jedi completely as he says to Obi later, 'to me the Jedi are evil!'. So I wonder if Sidious forsaw some of these events and diliberately said what he said to Anakin aboard the Invisible Hand just after Anakin's duel with Dooku because he forsaw what Mace would do and say, and saw how it would play in turning Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripHammer Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Interesting thoughts there. Nice parallel you draw DarthSeverus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yeah, but the problem is that in this particular case Darth Sidious also happened to be the *Chancellor of the Republic*. Under normal circumstances the Jedi could have turned over a sith lord they had captured to the Republic authorities for trial and punishment. But this was *not* a normal circumstance. He had corrupted the courts and government in general to the point that they couldn't even be trusted to hold him in prison and punish him for his crimes. Mace Windu obviously couldn't let him escape to go on murdering more people, or attempt to forcibly regain direct control of the government. He had to be stopped, and if the government could no longer be trusted to do it, then the Jedi would have to do it themselves. To save the Republic and save the lives of more innocent people who would otherwise be killed, Palpatine had to be stopped right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSeverus Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I see your point, but I think that Jedi are there as exmplars of justice, if they start becoming judge, jury and executionor (particular when, at least to the Jedi in question the fight is over and the Sith is begging for his/her life) to the kill them means that Jedi has lost their way somewhat. After all, if the Jedi go around deciding when they should uphold justice or should just take it into their own hands as they see fit, I would say they are already on the path to being in some ways little different to the Sith, arbitarily deciding the fates of all beings lives based on their personal desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druganator Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 if you read the books it tells you how mace windu actually fought and it was something along the lines of him throwing his arms forward really fast and very repetitive but kinov randomly so he would hold his lightsaber and switch it between his hands and kinda throw himself forward at the guy with a ferocity unlike what they showed in the moves cuz the wanted better camera angles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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