LordSerion Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Fake fight all right. Considering how easily Sidious slaughtered the other 3 council members, he could have killed Windu just as easily. He had the chance to stab him right through his chest, but he didn't do that. DarthSeverus: he could see the future (Yoda said in Ep. II that only those who turn to the dark side could see the future if the darkness grew), so it is a very strong possibility that he said those lines on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeleeMaster Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 It wasn't really the jedi way for Mace Windu to just decide to kill Palpatine on the spot, but technically he probably knew that if he didn't and decided to stop as soon as he backed off, turned his back, turned off his lightsaber, or shifted his focus from Palpatine for a split second, Palpatine would just force lightning him out the window anyway like he did when Anakin intervened after Mace Windu went in for the final blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 But this was a special circumstance. Palpatine had all the officials in his pocket, either directly or through his alter ego as Sidious, he had corrupted some parts of the senate and had a certain degree of control over the courts, as well, so that he could effectively corrupt the judicial process. Fixed. Obviously, Mace or anybody else didn't stand a "snowball's chance in hell" as was used erlier, of being fairly convicted. Mace had no choice, but this shows Sideous's talents and where they lie. He managed to singel-handedly cloud the visions of the Jedi Council, and sway the entire Republic, but he was NOT actually much of a fighter. Mace, on the other hand... wel, Vapaad. Think about it. Combat-wise, he is second only to Yoda. Palpy knew the most powerful Jedi would escape Order 66, so he knew he needed Anikin as a bodyguard, just to have a combat-oriented Jedi, as he didn't know Anny would get burned. If Obi-Wan hadn't beat him on Mustafar, he would have been able to hunt down Yoda and everyone else over lunch in the Imperial era. As was officially clarified, Mace did fairly beat Palpy. But once Anikin showed, I think that, and I cannot believe the words are coming out 'o me fingers, that Palpy-improvised. He HUGELY exaggerated the sliding and whimpering. Those who say his ego was too big to let himself get beat any worse than possible, he didn't seem too concerned about what happened to his face, did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maphisto86 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Fixed. Obviously, Mace or anybody else didn't stand a "snowball's chance in hell" as was used erlier, of being fairly convicted. Mace had no choice, but this shows Sideous's talents and where they lie. He managed to singel-handedly cloud the visions of the Jedi Council, and sway the entire Republic, but he was NOT actually much of a fighter. Mace, on the other hand... wel, Vapaad. Think about it. Combat-wise, he is second only to Yoda. Palpy knew the most powerful Jedi would escape Order 66, so he knew he needed Anikin as a bodyguard, just to have a combat-oriented Jedi, as he didn't know Anny would get burned. If Obi-Wan hadn't beat him on Mustafar, he would have been able to hunt down Yoda and everyone else over lunch in the Imperial era. Until recently I thought Palpatine just threw the fight because he sensed what he hoped would happen, that Anakin would come to join the confrontation. By being in a weaker position, he could lull Anakin into seeing the Jedi in a aggressive and negative light. However, think now that maybe Mace Windu had Palpatine on the defensive by the end and managed to beat him. I like you thoughts on this subject Relenzo. Could I ask though where it has been officially confirmed that Windu was the victor in the film? I didn't know there was an canon view of the subject. The fight in the Chancellor's chambers in Ep.III was one of the few things I found confusing about the story. For one thing two of Mace Windu's Jedi comrades, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar, where easily struck down by Palpatine, almost without moving. Also, what about Palpatine's almost equal confrontation with Yoda? The Sith Lord's strength and level of mastery of lightsaber combat is between the very good and the excellent in any case, but it is still hard to define. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 The problem with that fight is that, Mace Windu was second to Yoda in lightsaber combat, but he defeated Palpatine in a duel, but Palpatine beat Yoda in a duel...What's up with that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 The problem with that fight is that, Mace Windu was second to Yoda in lightsaber combat, but he defeated Palpatine in a duel, but Palpatine beat Yoda in a duel...What's up with that?! You have to remember, Yoda and Mace were the top two lightsaber duelists in the Jedi Order, not necessarily the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Yes...but Mace wasn't as good as Yoda, but Yoda was beat by the same person who had been beat by Mace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Yes...but Mace wasn't as good as Yoda, but Yoda was beat by the same person who had been beat by Mace... That could be because Sidious had foreseen this event, and knew that he would get a new apprentice out of it. He probably played down his ability to allow Windu to gain the upper hand, so that he could manipulate Anakin into helping finish old baldy off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 True, I can see how that makes sense...I'll go with that, it makes total sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Only once Anakin had attacked Windu did Sidious reveal the true extent of his power - it had been a feint all along. Had he been in as bad a shape as he looked, Windu would have killed him. And, as soon as Anakin attacked Windu, he unleashed his rage, which saw Windu off for good (and please, Windu fanboys, don't start spouting theories that he's still alive). Now, when he fought Yoda, I believe that was Sidious at his full potential, and he was just about a match for Yoda, both in saber combat and force ability, and neither held back - there was no reason to. The fate of the galaxy was going to be decided there and then. Had Yoda won, the Republic would have been saved - Vader would be no match for the Grand Master of the Order. Vader may have assaulted the Jedi Temple, and killed many, but he had two things in his favor there: 1. He had a legion of stormtroopers with him 2. Most of the Jedi in the temple were Padawans, as most of the Knights and Masters were fighting the war. They would have been no match for a battle hardened Jedi Knight who had slain a Sith Lord. And the reason Vader was so easily able to defeat the Order's battle master, Cin Drallig, was because, if you look in the security recording, he was using Drallig's apprentice as a shield, forcing Drallig to hold back, rather than harm his padawan. I kind of went off on a tangent there... but oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Most of the Jedi in the temple were Padawans, as most of the Knights and Masters were fighting the war. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Source? Okay, i'll admit, i'm making an assumption on that point, but it's the only explanation I have for Anakin 'I-wannabe-a-sith-too' Skywalker actually succeeding in the assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I'm not sure I can see what disadvantage you seem to be trying to imply that he would have in the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 You're right. I guess I am being a bit too hard on Vader. He was the chosen one after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Scott! Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Uhhh, pretty sure he is the chosen one... Why does everyone think Mace Windu is some super-natural all-powerful being? OMG, I posted this two years ago. How is this discussion still going on!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 OMG, I posted this two years ago. How is this discussion still going on!?! Someone revived it, so we thought it was time to maybe discuss it again. As to your question about Windu's percieved invincibility, you should hear some of the crackpot theories that he SURVIVED that fight, the lightning, and the 100 story fall into the depths of the planet. It's really this simple - while he may not have outclassed him, Sidious had him on the backfoot right from the start. The sudden ferocity of his attack, and the fact he easily took down two master with as many strikes, must have had an effect on Windu. That, and I think Windu was overconfident - he expected to easily deal with the chancellor. That, and he trusted Anakin - by the time he realised he couldn't it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 OMG, I posted this two years ago. How is this discussion still going on!?! ^^ Through the power of the force. The problem with that fight is that, Mace Windu was second to Yoda in lightsaber combat, but he defeated Palpatine in a duel, but Palpatine beat Yoda in a duel...What's up with that?! You assume that there is a strict heirarchy, and one Jedi is worse than all the people who can beat the people who can beat him. Not quite so, as was said. I like you thoughts on this subject Relenzo. Could I ask though where it has been officially confirmed that Windu was the victor in the film? I didn't know there was an canon view of the subject. I didn't read it myself, but it was mentioned by a number of annoyed people erlier in the thread. I think there is a link on one of the first two pages, to "George's words" on the subject. And of course, whatever George says is canon #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 And of course, whatever George says is canon #1. Don't say that! You'll upset all the JarJar/ewok haters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 It was all just a manipulation game set up by Darth Sidious. To make it look like Mace was just trying to kill him. I think that it was a fluke all of the way, on Sidious's part. Mace beat Sidious, but Anakin betrayed him, and Sidious killed him. Simple. It was a manipulation game that Sidious was playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Don't say that! You'll upset all the JarJar/ewok haters Bullhonkey to the JarJar/Ewok haters. I've battle with them on the feild of the forum many times and I'm sure they're very upset already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Bullhonkey to the JarJar/Ewok haters. I've battle with them on the feild of the forum many times and I'm sure they're very upset already. Oh, i'm in complete agreement with you as to George's word being law. I've said it many times myself. And it's only *one* Gungan who gives them a bad name (but not in my opinion I hate Darth Maul more than I do Jar Jar) And I don't get what's wrong with Ewoks either. I don't think they were in the films to be 'cute' - but to show that you shouldn't underestimate someone based on size and intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Tank you. Out of curiosity... what did Darth Maul do to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 but to show that you shouldn't underestimate someone based on size and intelligence ...and that filmmakers can get away with overestimating someone despite their size and intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 ive only read about half of this but in my opinion mace and emperour fought fair but even when the emperor was knocked down he still could of won. When mace windu was blocking his lightening and the emperor said he was to weak - he was not he could of kept that lighteining going for about another minute before it would do ant serious damage to him. On the other hand if anakin never showed up mace would of won if he could reflect the lightening long enough. Also i agree with thingy his death was abit boring i was exspecting a splat or at least some sign that he was actually dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visas Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Isn't Mace Windu supposed to be 'all powerful' as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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