Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidious, fluke or fair fight?

[noizer]

Yes...but Mace wasn't as good as Yoda, but Yoda was beat by the same person who had been beat by Mace...

 

even in real life... a fighter can win a fight against a better opponent lets say 2 out of 10 times.

 

so while sidious may be the stronger fighter he can lose from time to time against a lesser opponent.

 

also style make fights. i happen to be a HUGE mixed martial arts fan ( ufc anyone? ) a certain skillset can be dominant against a certain opponent but another opponent has a awnser for that skillset so he can nullify it.

 

maybe this could be the case... yes yoda is the better fighter overall but mace posesses a style that is hard to figure out for sidious.

 

 

that said i do think sidious let himself get beaten to turn anikin to the darkside.

[PoiuyWired]

What I see is, Sidious is more focused in force skills to start with, so it is not impossable if he would lose to a saber master, especially one that lingers close to the edge of the darkside on top of his light side skills. Its a matter of combat style, really. The fight starts well within saber range... so Mace got the upper hand there, even if its only a bit.

 

And, supposely Sidious IS beaten and killed by Mace, its still a win for the darkside. Mace killing Sidious right in front of Anakin would basically shift Mace to the darkside, eventually if not immediately.

[H. McGinnis]

Yes, Yoda would say "Age matters not"

 

but thats beside the point, Mace was getting up there in years just like Palpatine

 

but I believe Palpy let Mace win JUST so he could get Anakin over to his side AKA the dark side

 

so by letting Mace win, Mace goes in for the kill but Anakin stops him and kills him becuase he starts looking at Palpatine as a source of power to save Padme which i presume overcomes his love of the Jedi

[Gerevick]

My opinion is that Sidious wanted Windu to win. He raised his guard at exactly the wrong time to let Windu deliver the finishing attack. Windu did not use any complex tactics to defeat him. He merely hit him in a spot that and would have invariably stunned anyone struck by the move. Sidious wanted Windu to incapacitate him so he could beg in the corner for Anakin to see. The image of an old man being molested by a supposed ally was a crafty way to play on Anakin´s humility. Sidious sensed Anakin was coming. He decided to improvise a strategy, not certain that Anakin would have come to his aid of his own free will.

[mfinnie]

Fair, look at that n00b cower when he kicks his saber away XD, the only way palpatine won was his cleverness to trick anakin over so many years =/

[Klw]

Either way, Sidious won the fight. So Mace never actually "beat" him. It is more correct to say that Mace gained the advantage and then lost it.

 

It has always been my opinion that Sidious did throw the fight. It's his signature move. He did it against Galen Marek, for instance. He let Starkiller pound him and then right when Starkiller put his lightsaber down, he popped up like a jack-in-the-box and killed him easily.

 

He tried the same trick on Luke, but it didn't work.

 

If there is an official canon source that explicitly states that Palpatine in fact was defeated fair and square by Windu, please give me a link.

[Fredi]

My point of view is that Mace won the lightsaber duel, it just happens that Sidious was able to turn the tables when Anakin arrived at the room. He manipulated the situation and took control of it, turned Anakin against the Jedi and took the chance he had to finish off Mace.

[Klw]

Sidious purposely told Anakin that he was a Sith lord. Considering the level of planning that goes into everything he does, do you really think that he would risk his life on something like that? He was obviously either expecting or at least allowing for the possibility of a confrontation and must have had little to no doubt whatsoever that he would survive it. Otherwise he wouldn't have told Anakin anything. My guess is that he knew that he couldn't possibly sack the Jedi Temple unless Windu and the other high-ranking masters there were taken out first.

 

Sidious never puts himself in a compromised position. In ROTJ he had troops waiting for the Rebels at the bunker and had Death Star 2's main cannon ready to fire the whole time. Sure he was killed by Vader, but that is one thing that he really couldn't have planned for if you ask me. Now Mace defeating him in a duel that he purposely set up? That can be planned for.

[SmootheOperator]

maybe it was planned for Mace and Sidious to duel it out "mano-e-mano" in the end, but the way sidious was almost taken out, i'm leaning towards the idea that if anakin hadn't have distracted mace, sidious would have been done in.

 

Sure sidious took out the other Jedi that came after him, but if the duel were to have happened without Anakin interrupting it, Mace would have come out on top. It wasn't until Sidious had Anakin come to his aid, did sidious actually have the upper hand on mace, but, all it took was one lapse in concentration for things to go horribly wrong for mr. windu, and the galaxy to descend into darkness.

[Klw]

Even if Mace would have killed him, do you think that Sidious was still planning on having Anakin rescue him?

 

Sun Tzu said that "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." Palpatine has always followed this rule no matter what. Therefore, I just cannot accept that Mace ever had a chance in this duel because if he had a chance, Palpatine wouldn't have invited him over.

[iwasreven]

wow

that will be to cool but ittl be better if it was reven vs windu

[Gerevick]

wow

that will be to cool but ittl be better if it was reven vs windu

 

Which version of Revan are you referring to, male or female?

 

I would personally like to see the female version of Revan fight Windu. The differences in strength and speed would make an interesting duel.

[Bushy162]

I've heard that sidious is scared of heights, and that's the reason he didn't woop maces arse. Also, as has been stated, he wanted to make anakin choose as to whether to join the dark side or not. If he had killed Mace before anakin arrived, anakin might have seen the evil and destroy it.

[Antares Navaar]

It is extremely difficult to say for certain. I can easily contradict any answer I give, but I will try to give as good an answer as I am able.

 

To begin with, Windu is an extremely spectacular jedi, being one of only two to carry the high jedi general rank, and inventing his own brilliant style. My assumption straight off is that Windu was the only one able to resist Sidious's force shout, being quicker and perhaps more skilled than his companions, thus he was able to stay alive longer.

 

The area of which the duel takes place also seemed to be in Windu's favor, because Sidious gives me the impression of being more of a force user. I do remember that he did well to keep distance from Yoda in their duel if he could, and he only gained the upper hand when he did so.

 

So really, a part of me thinks Windu was able to overcome Sidious here, because of where his strengths come into play and where they are coming into play at. But then I can easily argue that it fits together all too perfectly. Sidiou's plan was obviously for some sort of fight to happen there. He knew that Anakin wouldn't so easily convert merely because he revealed himself to him at a time of distress. No, he had to fit the key perfectly.

 

So I think he did mean for the duel to happen. I also think that, while he may have wanted Anakin to come in at a point where Sidious was still locked in combat, he didn't particularly want to go so far.

 

Then I come to ask myself, wouldn't he be wiser than to throw a volley off lightning at Windu, who still has his saber up? Did he deliberately do this, to put himself on the edge and force Anakin into choosing right then and there? Or was it just a moment of despiration?

 

In the end, I'd have to say that, given the advantages, Windu did truly overcome Sidious, who did mean for everything to happen, but maybe not exactly how they did. But that's just my guess, and I know a lot of people out there are able to do a much better job at it than I did. Just figured I'd share.

[Antares Navaar]

I've heard that sidious is scared of heights, and that's the reason he didn't woop maces arse. Also, as has been stated, he wanted to make anakin choose as to whether to join the dark side or not. If he had killed Mace before anakin arrived, anakin might have seen the evil and destroy it.

 

I don't believe that he's scared of heights, but I do agree on the last part. Perhaps he did hold back toward the end for this reason, because there's no doubt that Anakin wouldn't have gone with Palpatine if he saw Windu dead, along with Fisto and the others. Hmm, something to think about, it really is.