A New Idea

[kotorfan84]

Sorry but Revan and the Exile's stories are complete... despite all the arguments to the contrary.

 

'Pure' RPG's like the KotOR games will have us start with a new PC each time, it gives the writers the greatest amount of artistic freedom when writing the story. It also drives what gets 'cut' from previous games as well, to allow the ease in writing for a sequel.

 

I don't think there stories are complete, but we definately are done playing as them. I wouldn't be suprised to see Revan as a jedi master in the new jedi order, possibly the exile, although I think he would've choosen exile again to preserve the force. Personally I prefer it this way, I'd hate to re learn skills and force powers I already had.

[kotorfan84]

Has anyone thought about Resident Evil 2? It had 2 main characters and 2 separate storylines that were interwoven with each other. It was sort of RPGish.

 

(I know what you guys are going to say,"It was an action horror game!")

 

 

And to pull this off, they basically made 2 games in one. Will they do that for KOTOR 3? Don't know, maybe.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, this is a D20 system.. There is no reason why they can't start a "epic" campaign with all players starting at 30th, and going up to 50thish.

[mimartin]

Great news KOTOR III – “The Biggest and Most Expressive Game Ever” was released in September 22, 2025. It cost me $800.00 to purchase the game and $5,000.00 for the new computer to handle the massive size and memory requirements of this RPG VR game. After loading the 35th minidvd (which hold 6 times the information that a DVD did when KOTOR II was released) I stared at the load page. First choice what your Raven should look like. Being a senior citizen now I have no clue what my Raven looked like when I last played back in 2008. I spent the next two hour answering each question the computer displayed about Raven and my actions in KOTOR. The screen then goes to TSL and begins asking questions about the Exile and the choices I made during game play some twenty years before. After another two hours the computer displays loading…after 30 minutes the computer sings with the theme to Star Wars and “A long time ago…” scrolls across the screen. Excited I press escape to advance to the game. I am Raven at level 20 with the same force powers I had all those years ago when last seen on the Star Forge. I’m dressed in flowing robes while holding a pair of blue lightsabers in the distance I see the Exile just as I had remember from all those years before. Just as all my KOTOR dreams had come to fruition the music again blared from my speakers and “Coming in the spring 2027 the modules so that you can play the game for just $199.99 more” is seen.

 

Like I said before

I believe none of us are saying we wouldn’t want to find out what happen to Revan and/or the Exile, but within the restrictions of a RPG game, I believe their stories have been told to completion. They may be mentioned within the confines of KOTOR III (if it is ever made), but it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to included them as PC or NPC.

 

I hate to use the word impossible, but to me it would be unrealistic to make a RPG game with Revan and/or Exile as a NPC or PC. I would also love to continue their stories.

[Jediphile]

I do disagree that there is no 'reason' that they couldn't appear in a potential KotOR III. Their appearance is a big one.

 

Now don't get me wrong I liked the character of Revan, quite a bit, but knowing how these kinds of games work we will not likely see either of our PC's ever again. Hear about them, yes. See them, unlikely.

 

I suppose one reason for my stand is that I think both Revan and Exile will be DS in KotOR3.

 

Why?

 

The clue for me is the tomb visions on Korriban in KotOR2. Note how we see various visions (interrupted by Shyracks and the odd Hssiss xp bug...), we see certain key events of the Exile's life.

 

First we see Malak recruiting the Exile to join Revan's cause against the Mandalorians. This is clearly the past before the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Next we see the Exile leading troops against the Mandalorians on Dxun. Also the past, during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

After that, we have the scene where the Exile's companions - chiefly Atton, T3, and Bao-Dur - confront Kreia, and you must choose which side to support. Since these are all companions of the game, this is clearly the present.

 

Finally we meet Revan himself in the final vision. Yet note two things about the encounter. It always takes place last, Revan is always in his Darth Revan costume, and there is always a vision of the Exile standing right behind him. And both always have DS mastery, clearly visible if you learned Force Sight from Visas.

 

Now why is that? Exile has served with Revan, yes, but was never DS while doing so. Indeed, the Exile cut himself off from the force and returned to be exiled by the jedi council rather than fall to Revan's corruption. The Exile can be DS in KotOR2, but never meets Revan during the game. So how come?

 

Well, to me the first two visions are the past, the third is the present, and so it follows that the fourth and last would be the future - it's a premonition of things that are to occur in the plot at some later point.

 

Interestingly, the Kreia vision actually says, "You are to be commended for making it this far.You've revisited the dark moments of your past, and now you must face the present."

 

For me it follows naturally that next we would then face the future, and indeed the real Kreia's subsequent comments at least do not disprove this.

 

Kreia: "Sometimes, a momentary insight is worth lifetimes of experience.You may not yet understand what you learned here. That wisdom will come in the future.You overestimate the power of the tomb. Any change you feel is coming from within yourself. Instinctually, you know your true path.Trust in your feelings. They will lead you in conquering the many challenges that the future holds for you.The dangers you faced in this tomb were real, but these images of the past served to prepare you for your future.Surely you have felt what awaits... events are shaping themselves about you, seeking to draw you into their center."

 

Now, Kreia is cryptic as always, of course, and you might think that she's merely pointing to the confrontation with Nihilus, when she speaks of the future, but I wonder if that is so, since Nihilus never appears in those visions. The comment about discovering later what has been learned is also quite telling, since the significance of the DS Revan and DS Exile visions are never touched upon again.

 

I think that's because the Exile will follow Revan to the unknown regions and meet him. And Revan will DS and turn the Exile DS as well, assuming that is not already the case. This would suggest that both Revan and Exile will be wearing masks in KotOR3, thereby solving the problem for at least the majority of the game, and leaving the LS/DS and gender options to the very end of the game. One consistent plot with lots of potential endings, depending on alignments and genders of Revan, Exile and the KotOR3 main character. That would be so cool, and not even all that hard to do. A few cutscenes could tie it all up nicely.

[mimartin]

I suppose one reason for my stand is that I think both Revan and Exile will be DS in KotOR3.

 

Well my Revan may return to his/her darkside ways, but my Exile would never do such a thing. What is the point of playing an RPG game if in the end despite everything I did to make my PC good/bad, the developer just makes them fully good/bad. Yes, this might satisfy you, but the game should be made for all the KOTOR fans. I’d be happy if they made the game described in this tread (were you could be either) using model P_Fem_C_Med_01 for Revan, and P_Fem_C_Med_05 for the Exile fully lightside, but they are not going to make the game just for my enjoyment (only in my dreams).

[Jediphile]

As I see it, there are very compelling plot reasons why both Revan and Exile might turn to the dark side following the events of KotOR2, though I shall hasten to admit that this is all conjecture on my part.

 

I played both Revan and Exile as very LS males, yet I still think there are good reasons why that may happen, because I see KotOR2 building towards it throughout its plot.

 

Also, the LS/DS for Revan and Exile in their respective games need not be "undone". A LS Revan could be redeemed, for example, while a DS Revan could not. Same for the Exile, thereby making their DS status merely transitional depending on player choices in KotOR3, if they were LS in KotOR1 and KotOR2 respectively.

[generalvaklu321]

The ending of KotOR was the end of Revan's story. Likewise, the end of TSL is definitely the end of the Exile's story.

 

no, not true, both the exile and revan went off to fight the true sith in the unknown regions. That's a story, it could be a good won.

[RedHawke]

Some of my reasonings on the Revan and Exile in K3 subject...

 

We will not likely ever be 'seeing' either the Exile or Revan again. If it were destined to see Revan again we would have had some sort of cutscenes or something to show us Revan adventuring in the Outer Rim in TSL, or Revan would have shown up at the end of the game. Hearing about them is all we will likely have for KotOR III.

 

How will we be able to 'see' either Revan or the Exile in a potential KotOR III? How will we tell the game all the specifics? Mug-Shots with Lt. Dol Grenn? An SAT length test before we start on how the characters were and what they wore? Atton's dialog about Revan on Peragus was transparent enough that to push it further would wreck peoples suspension of disbelief. The one in TSL with Atton pushed mine and OE did a nice job with that dialog too, but it was just too transparent for me. To add more than the 4 basic questions for KotOR III (Revan and the Exile Gender/Alignment) would be folly.

 

Also, and I realise this isn't going to be a favored response with some, but TSL was not actually about Revan. It was all about 'The Exile', the Exile being a 'wound in the force', the Jedi Council's judgements, those damnable 'echoes' , Kreia's manipulations, the destruction of Nihilus and his dangerous 'hunger', and finally 'Kreia's hatred of the force' and her twisted 'destiny' she envisioned for the Exile. Revan's dialogs are all a non-essential part of the game... after many XBox and PC playthroughs I have tested this and it is possible to go through the game and hear very little about Revan (This is likely for those who didn't play KotOR I to avoid confusion.)

 

The whole point of TSL's optional Revan dialogs is, for those of us who played KotOR I and liked the Revan character, to take the 'center stage/main focus' away from Revan (Who left the known Galaxy) and place it on The Exile (our new PC), in the end of TSL this is done to the Exile as well (Exile either leaves to follow Revan or stays on Malachor). The good thing about this is that this story point doesn't have to be done in KotOR III.

 

Lastly, to have the previous PC's in KotOR III will severly restrict what kind of story they can tell as well, not good.

[Addlcove]

I suppose one reason for my stand is that I think both Revan and Exile will be DS in KotOR3.

 

Why?

 

<reason given>

 

I tend to agree, never really saw it that way but now that you mention it it makes sense.

 

besides, who wouldn't want to get to slay Revan AND the Exile as end game bosses <grins>

 

 

Of course they will need a new young padawan, no more memory losses or such (as mentioned already)

[Fealiks]

While this is a good idea, it would not be possible. Why not make a kotor fps?

[Jediphile]

We will not likely ever be 'seeing' either the Exile or Revan again. If it were destined to see Revan again we would have had some sort of cutscenes or something to show us Revan adventuring in the Outer Rim in TSL, or Revan would have shown up at the end of the game. Hearing about them is all we will likely have for KotOR III.

 

I see it just the other way - if we were not going to see Revan again, then we would have seen a cutscene like that. Instead we're left in suspense about Revan's fate, and all we get are Kreia's musings, but no actual facts. It's a build-up. Foreshadowing.

 

How will we be able to 'see' either Revan or the Exile in a potential KotOR III? How will we tell the game all the specifics? Mug-Shots with Lt. Dol Grenn? An SAT length test before we start on how the characters were and what they wore? Atton's dialog about Revan on Peragus was transparent enough that to push it further would wreck peoples suspension of disbelief. The one in TSL with Atton pushed mine and OE did a nice job with that dialog too, but it was just too transparent for me. To add more than the 4 basic questions for KotOR III (Revan and the Exile Gender/Alignment) would be folly.

 

Why? There were several of these in KotOR2, where you not only set the alignment and gender of Revan, but also the Exile's lightsaber, for example. Since I doubt either of them will appear early in the game, it won't be too much of a stretch to have the player provide this information over the course of the game. Heck, you could even set the jedi classes of both Revan and Exile in just a few disparate conversations, especially if learning about their fates is a focus in the game anyway. The mugshots would be fun, though. Good idea

 

Also, and I realise this isn't going to be a favored response with some, but TSL was not actually about Revan. It was all about 'The Exile', the Exile being a 'wound in the force', the Jedi Council's judgements, those damnable 'echoes' , Kreia's manipulations, the destruction of Nihilus and his dangerous 'hunger', and finally 'Kreia's hatred of the force' and her twisted 'destiny' she envisioned for the Exile.

 

Yes, but is that tale finished? The masters want to cut the Exile off from the force to prevent the wound from spreading. That doesn't happen. So what does that mean? I do agree with you that this is the centrall plot of KotOR2, but note that it's actually never resolved - the Exile ends up continuing to siphon or leech the force powers of others, spreading the pain and wound over the galaxy as he progresses. That wound is never healed. The story is not finished...

 

Revan's dialogs are all a non-essential part of the game... after many XBox and PC playthroughs I have tested this and it is possible to go through the game and hear very little about Revan

 

If you know which conversations make references to Revan and are hellbent on avoiding them, then sure it's possible. Barely.

 

The whole point of TSL's optional Revan dialogs is, for those of us who played KotOR I and liked the Revan character, to take the 'center stage/main focus' away from Revan (Who left the known Galaxy) and place it on The Exile (our new PC), in the end of TSL this is done to the Exile as well (Exile either leaves to follow Revan or stays on Malachor). The good thing about this is that this story point doesn't have to be done in KotOR III.

 

The problem is the ending. Even the DS ending points a lot to the Exile following Revan, which doesn't exactly place focus on the Exile as the new protagonist. It's like the Exile is the protagonist throughout the majority of the game, because there is no alternative, and then has it taken away in the end, where it switches back to Revan, because it's Revan - not the Exile - who's out there fighting the good fight. And the Exile just gets to follow in Revan's footsteps either by joining him or else showing others the way to Revan.

 

Lastly, to have the previous PC's in KotOR III will severly restrict what kind of story they can tell as well, not good.

 

I don't see why. It has long been the mantra of many, many, many Trek writers that they couldn't do sequels to earlier stories, because it would be "restrictive". But the crap they turned out instead always made me wish someone had put a gun to their creative (and I use the term loosely) heads and forced the issue...

 

Building on an existing story or plot is not "restrictive" unless you insist that it must be. That Star Wars is able to use its universe to build plots is one of its strong points, while it has long been a weakness in Trek that it had to be new and fresh every time (which always seemed to me to just mean that old plots were recycled with new characters, who were frequently less interesting than the previous cast of characters...).

 

While this is a good idea, it would not be possible.

 

Why not?

 

Why not make a kotor fps?

 

My apologies in advance, but in my (not so) humble opinion: Worst idea ever!

 

If I may quote Prime: "Yuck!"

[Scars Unseen]

yuck indeed... next thing I'll see is a someone suggesting that you be able to start as a Jedi in Galaxies... Oh, wait.

[mimartin]

Why not?

LMAO. That was great.

[Davinq]

You'd have to have a twin to RP that properly lol.

[Vaelastraz]

[...] those damnable 'echoes' [...]

 

Ah, another one who dislikes that idea!

 

But my list is a little longer:

echoes

"the destruction of the force"

"leak in the force"

"create bonds to leech power"

 

I myself would be more than happy if Kotor III takes place decades after Kotor II, featuring a whole new story with interesting characters in interesting settings.

And we would hear the occasional rumour about that history of Revan and the Exile..

[Scars Unseen]

Heh... if it did come down to being decades later, it would give a good reason for Revan going off on his own after KOTOR... to atempt to stall the threat of the 'true sith' and give either the Republic(LS Revan) or the Sith(DS Revan) a chance to stabilize things and regain strength for the eventuality of attack.

 

The biggest plus I can see to a decades long pause in the action would be the chance for the Jedi Order to rebuild, as it is pretty much nonexistant by the end of TSL...

[Jediphile]

Revan has already been off fighting the true Sith for four years when KotOR2 begins... And for five by the end of the game.

 

Besides, the weakened state of the jedi order is precisely why the "great war that comes" would seem to be right after KotOR2 - the time for the true Sith to attack the Republic is perfect, since it has never been weaker than it is after KotOR2: The Republic fleet is shattered, the Jedi Order is all but extinct, the rival Sith are gone, the Republic's economy lies in ruins (note G0-T0's comment that "In one standard month, the Republic will collapse. Not due to war, or secession, but because it lacks the infrastructure to support itself.")

[Davinq]

^^^

Those are some absolutely brilliant points Jediphile.

 

But if the Jedi Order is all but extinct, how are we going to get a new PC?

[Jediphile]

It really takes just one jedi to train another, and I was thinking that - assuming an LS Exile - the Exile's companions from KotOR2 could be the founders of the new jedi order, as per Kreia's reference to them being the lost jedi. Of course, if the Exile was DS, then you'd have to replace them with alternate characters... In either event, Nomi Sunrider and her daughter Vima are still around... somewhere. Even if Lucasarts can't use their last name for legal reasons.

[Davinq]

I really like that. Just imagine ending up with Mira/Brianna/Atton/Mical being your mentor. Pretty sweet ideas coming along...

[Scars Unseen]

hmm... not a bad idea. Better than waiting for the order to pull itself out of oblivion. In that case it would be interesting to have a different mentor depending on your class. Brianna for guardian, Atton for sentinel, and Mical(if you somehow work both Mical and Brianna into the storyline simultaneously) for consular. I don't really see Mira as the type to have patience enough for a student, and Bao-Dur would probably still be working on Telos.

 

Of course this introduces even more variables to the beginning of the game.