The experience system & skills and abilities thread

[UDM]

Actually I did suggest the exact same thing a few months ago heh

 

I liked the idea then, and still like it now. If you guys have played System Shock 2, that's exactly how this model works. Very good system that's flexible, yet provides balance

 

And sushi makes a good point too. I have an idea to this. When players increase their attributes, changes only take place 60 seconds later, upon hitting the "Apply Changes" button on the profile menu. This prevents players from exploiting the system by changing their attributes on the fly as and when they like it

 

In addition, I have a suggestion. Could we have it such that depending on which skills/force powers we have more points in, our title varies? For example, if we invest all our points in saber combat, then our title becomes Jedi Guardian. If force powers are our forte, then we become Jedi Consular. If force powers skill points and saber combat SP equates more or less the same, then we are Jedi Sentinel.

 

Similarly, if we have like a lot of points in the pistol/gadgets section, then we can be called Scoundrel. If we have lots of points in the heavy weapons section, then we can be called Soldier. What's even cooler is if our title appears next to our nicknames. So it'd be like UDM <Jedi Guardian>

 

I just had an interesting thought from this. What would happen if we pitted 2 Jedis against each other - one with no force powers, but maxed out saber skills; another Jedi has no saber skills, but 1337 force powers. The reason why this cannot workout in vanilla JKA is because force will always be 1337er than the saber, esp with lightning and grip

 

So I've got an idea. Maybe we can have additional skills for the Guardian, like Force Resistance and Acrobatics (thus Force Jump does not determine your acrobatics). The higher your resistance, the more you can use DP to resist force attacks. The higher your Acrobatics, the less the moves will eat up force power eg. wall running, wall clinging etc. That would make for some very interesting fights, and at the same time no character becomes all mighty

 

Some suggestions that belong to the non-Force section ie. saber skills

 

Force Resistance

Acrobatics

Strength (determines how much you increase enemy mishap only)

[Doctor Shaft]

ok, lets talk specifics then. To start, I suggest that we make ALL force powers (except possibly saber attack) rely on the player having at least one level in Force Seeing. As such, Force See level 1 would be the equivilent of the skill cost of being Force sensitive.

 

Beyond that, maybe require a certain number of ranks in neutral powers before the offensive dark side powers become available?

 

 

Agreed then. I think this is a good idea. This way, we don't have Jedi running around who can't see who's coming. It's a power that is oft ignored. Might as well force people to include it at least a little bit. Heck, you can't even finish certain single player levels without having Force Seeing. This would also prevent folks from starting a low level game with tons of other powers, hence putting gunners on the "trash" list since they'd have no early options to defend against being constantly pushed and pulled from afar.

 

 

 

Specifics: I'm bad at this stuff, but let's see.

 

[Neutral Power Tier] - Pre-req Force Seeing

All neutral powers would fit in this category. This is effectively Tier 1. The only pre-requisite for taking powers in Tier 1 is a single level of Force Seeing. The following powers would be available in the neutral tier section (based on what powers we currently have available).

 

Jump/Push/Pull/Speed/Seeing (five powers total)

 

[Passive Force Power Tier] - Pre-Reqs - 3 Neutral Power Tiers initiated.

Passive Force Powers of both the Light and Dark Side would go here. This would include powers such as Rage, Protect, Heal, Mind Trick, or anything else we come up with. Basically, status effect powers would be here. Rational being that mid-tier Jedi and Sith had access to pretty neat abilities, such as Maul's rage and Obi-Wan's constant patience.

 

[Final Tier] Pre-Reqs - 4 Neutral Powers, 2 Passive Powers (theoretical)

The Final Tier would be wear all the "ultimate" abilities we see from the movies would go. This would essentially be the "Hero" tier, where the greatest villains and heros tested their mettle against one another. Force Lightning, with its terrible abilities, would be here. Any other Force Powers, like Drain, Grip, etc., would also be featured here. Any light side powers we invent, even stuff like Absorb could be fitted in here (absorb is pretty powerful in OJP at the moment... I was able to completely nullify Force attacks with it, even if it is draining).

 

And there you have it. In terms of how much each power would cost initially, I've thought of an initial system, but only testing and more imput would create excellent values.

 

Tier 1 -

Force Seeing - 5 points (become Force sensitive)

Force Jump - Max's 7 point seems okay... encourage Jedi mobility

Force Pull/Push - 8 point start is fine.

Force Speed - 7 again... what use does this power currently have?

 

Tier 2 -

All passive Force Powers start with a cost of 10... progressive increases are much less... like half the cost. This was people choose a power in the beginning of matches, and tend to stick with it, as opposed to quickly hording what they can get. Final level of powe would again cost 10.

 

Tier 3 -

12 point start... then steep decrease as they increase the power. Final level of course would be high cost again of 12.

 

I'll make another post with Force Power ideas I've recently had cross my mind.

[JRHockney*]

I like this prereq idea.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing... right now, you can shift all of your powers around at will without having to die first. This could be potentially unbalancing: imagine a player who shifts everything to lightning to zap someone, then shifts those points to jump to quickly get somewhere, then shifts them back to lightning. Basically, they get all force powers for the price of one, provided they're willing to take 3 seconds to open the force menu and shift them around. Are we OK with this?

 

Actually, they could do the same thing between lives anyways. I suggested this because if some did change and start spamming force powers between lives, the other player would be screwed and unable to adjust powers to block before he's dead. While this might make the spammer able to adjust his powers faster, it also gives the defender a chance to switch as well.

 

even stuff like Absorb could be fitted in here (absorb is pretty powerful in OJP at the moment... I was able to completely nullify Force attacks with it, even if it is draining).

 

Im not sure if absorb should be here. This is the power that should be used to defeat force spammers. The drain on absorb is fast enough and you have to turn it on or off to even use. I'd say that at least level 1 should be available for beginners. That way you don't have all the new players on a server getting completely owned by even moderate point level players who spam force powers. Hmm, in fact, why dont we make it so that you cant have more than level 1 per tier?

 

Also, unless we can come up with a rational movielike usage for protection and drain, they probably wont be in the game because they werent in the movies.

 

I do kind of like this tier idea overall though.

[Doctor Shaft]

More Force Power Suggestions (Recently Edited Too)

 

Based on the tier suggestions, I'd "place" some of the powers in the imaginary tiers.

 

 

Force Drain -----> Shroud of the Dark Side (Tier 3)

 

The Dark Side clouds everything. A big theme in the Prequel Movies. The Jedi constantly complain of their connection to the Force being somewhat clouded, or even weakened. A user of the Shroud weakens their targets connection to the Force, causing a draining effect against the opponent, and reducing the effectiveness of their attacks temporarily.

 

Use:

A spell cast just like Drain. This can either be a cone like "shot", or we could modify it to act like a passive field that quickly shoots out. Field or shot lasts one second. Drain user cannot reinitiate the cloud until after a 60 second cooldown (no constant shroud barrages). Opponents attack level is also temporarily drained for a few seconds (5 seconds max). Gunners find their aiming skewed and weapon damage decreased. Can be countered by target's Force Sense level (having it turned on during casting). Other counters include Battle Meditation (since it would reincrease DP damage per swing).

 

Effect:

The Shroud user loses a sizeable FP chunk (50-30-20). Upon use, the target's Mishap Meter shoots up towards critical levels, allowing for an early disarm, heavy bounce from a parry, knockdown, or the like. DPs are also somewhat drained (10-20-25 pts).

 

(Lord Sidious quickly surprises and coup de graces several Jedi Masters that were considered master-swordsman. Perhaps they're senses were clouded by the quick surprised attack)

 

 

Force Heal ------------------> Force Meditation (Tier 2)

 

Qui-Gon Jinn fought valiantly against the young and able Darth Maul. After being tossed around, kicked, and tested for lengths of time, Jinn is given a brief respite to rest. Slouching to his knees, he meditates, regaining his strength.

 

Use:

User meditates (via using the power). During meditation, user cannot Dodge, block Force Pushes, or defend against any other distractions. Activating other powers during meditation immediately ceases the benefits of the meditation. With each use, the players FP and DP must be above "Red" level.(Jedi has to be at least somewhat conscious of his connection... no quick redliner saves).

 

Effect:

During the duration of use, the users FPs regenerate more rapidly. In addition, HP also slowly regenerates, though at a slower rate than normal FP regen.

 

 

 

Force Protect ------------------------> Battle Meditation (Tier 2)

 

A Jedi's strengths flows through the Force. When using this power, the user gathers strength through allowing the Force to flow through them, increasing certain attributes in battle during use.

 

Use:

Jedi activates the power. There is an initial cost (40/30/20), followed by constant drain. The aura can be countered or shut off the following ways: Being successfully attacked by the Force (Knockdown from Push/Pull, Lightning, Grip), knockdown from explosives or shock weapons, blaster shots successfully landing (breaching Dodge), a Mishap occurring (disarm, knockdown), or due to poor performance (4 consecutive hits unblocked or parried). FP constantly drains while in use. Once FP pool reaches 40%, the power can no longer be used. User gains FP bonus for every mishap he incurs against his opponent, or successful victory against an opponent while turned on.

 

Effect:

The Jedi's defenses are raised while the aura is active. The duration and success is based on performance. While active, the Jedi gains a brief DP (20/30/40) bonus due to their connection with the Force, and their successful blocks and parries increase a users instance of mishap sooner (more mishap added to opponent per successful block). In addition, blaster deflection is increased in efficiency. During this time, Jedi's FP slowly decreases, but is given a defense bonus as well (20%/30%/40%).

 

(Obi-Wan Kenobi shows us that he truly trusts in the Force throughout the films. Rocket blasts distract him, but upon the initial hit he seems to leap away unharmed. While he is certainly not immortal, he shows a toughness and resilience that many Jedi lack. During fighting, he quickly defends and against and disarms the might Grievous in single combat).

 

 

Force Mind Trick ----------------> Battlemind (yeah, I'm ripping off d20)

 

Using the Force as an ally, the user briefly steals himself against his opponent, allowing him to use his lightsaber abilities more effectively against them. Through the focus of this power, one's morale and fighting spirit is augmented.

 

Use:

Cast against one opponent, or several based on level, This attack is similar to rage, but is rather a more focused version that also costs more, and affects only the number of opponents the user can focus on (1 at level 1, 2 within a field of vision (no aim), and several at the highest level). The effect is countered by having at least Force Seeing lvl2 activated before the casting. Battlemind is also countered after user is "distracted" (see Battle Meditation).

 

Effects:

The attacks of the caster are briefly augmented to cause more DP damage per hit against the person it is used against. Speed of saber swings, etc., are not increased. DP augmentation is increased based on level (5%/10%/15%). FP drain is also based on level (40/30/20).

 

 

That's all I have for now. I'm busy ripping off of d20 Force Powers as well. Many of them aren't helpful, but the names are useful, and some would work well, I think.

 

Criticize away.

[Maxstate]

I like this prereq idea.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing... right now, you can shift all of your powers around at will without having to die first. This could be potentially unbalancing: imagine a player who shifts everything to lightning to zap someone, then shifts those points to jump to quickly get somewhere, then shifts them back to lightning. Basically, they get all force powers for the price of one, provided they're willing to take 3 seconds to open the force menu and shift them around. Are we OK with this?

I thought about this, we might solve it by taking the "buy area" idea that many games have. First one was CS I think, Battlefront has it too. I don't know if it's possible, but we would have glowly/lighted areas around the map where you can walk into and stand in to change your points.

[Doctor Shaft]

Im not sure if absorb should be here. This is the power that should be used to defeat force spammers. The drain on absorb is fast enough and you have to turn it on or off to even use. I'd say that at least level 1 should be available for beginners. That way you don't have all the new players on a server getting completely owned by even moderate point level players who spam force powers. Hmm, in fact, why dont we make it so that you cant have more than level 1 per tier?

 

Also, unless we can come up with a rational movielike usage for protection and drain, they probably wont be in the game because they werent in the movies.

 

I do kind of like this tier idea overall though.

 

You have a good point here. Absorb should probably be more of a neutral power, in that sense. Something that everyone can use, since as they get stronger in the Force, they would be more able to "nullify" one another's attacks.

 

Why not balance this power by making it Tier 1, but simply putting a very high cost on its use (initial cost 8 or 10... subsequent levels 20 and 30).

 

This way, if a light side user didn't want to use the dark side, they could opt for a much more powerful Absorb ability.

[Maxstate]

You have a good point here. Absorb should probably be more of a neutral power, in that sense. Something that everyone can use, since as they get stronger in the Force, they would be more able to "nullify" one another's attacks.

 

Why not balance this power by making it Tier 1, but simply putting a very high cost on its use (initial cost 8 or 10... subsequent levels 20 and 30).

 

This way, if a light side user didn't want to use the dark side, they could opt for a much more powerful Absorb ability.

(I liked your previous ideas)

 

I think Absorb should be a universal power that nullifies all force power attacks up to a level. Allowing them only to work if the opponent is at high mishap/low DP. This makes weak and struggling Jedi vulnerable to Force, makes for good finishers and even better realism.

 

I also think skill should have to do with it but I can't come up with anything now.

[Doctor Shaft]

(I liked your previous ideas)

 

I think Absorb should be a universal power that nullifies all force power attacks up to a level. Allowing them only to work if the opponent is at high mishap/low DP. This makes weak and struggling Jedi vulnerable to Force, makes for good finishers and even better realism.

 

I also think skill should have to do with it but I can't come up with anything now.

 

 

Agreed, but I still think it should be a power that is both turned on and drains FP rapidly. This would be the "skill" equation. If Absorb simply nullified attacks automatically, all the time, then it elimnates the need for opposing push and pull scores that are currently in place. Might as well just buy absorb.

 

Basically, if opponents fight and the attacker manages to "sneak in" a Force Push, and the other user doesn't have the defense for it, good on them. If the defender uses Absorb at the right time, then they get the bonus of having defended against the attack entirely, and absorbing the blow. Also, they wouldn't be stunned, so they can follow through with the attack while the push user still has to wait for the cool down.

[razorace]

Force Drain -----> Shroud of the Dark Side (Tier 3)

Force Heal ------------------> Force Meditation (Tier 2)

Force Protect ------------------------> Battle Meditation (Tier 2)

Force Mind Trick ----------------> Battlemind (yeah, I'm ripping off d20)

Maybe some of those powers might have do better as the higher level component of other powers? For example:

Shroud of the Dark Side -> Force Rage

Battlemind -> Channeling the Force

[Doctor Shaft]

Maybe some of those powers might have do better as the higher level component of other powers? For example:

Shroud of the Dark Side -> Force Rage

Battlemind -> Channeling the Force

 

You're on to something here. It certainly would reduce the need of having 30 different powers, all with power slots (some of which would be, admittedly, pretty useless initially).

 

If they were the higher component, then you could simply choose the arbitrary number for each effect. You'd always get what you paid for, and power selection would even be predictable (User goes down the Rage Path, or User Goes down the Channeling of the Force Path, etc).

[razorace]

So, I've gotten a basic wrist flamethrower working. Should we treat it like a weapon or like a item?

[razorace]

Also, about Bacta, I'm trying to come up with a realistic way to do it but I can't come up with something yet. Realistically any sort of shot should kick in pretty quickly and probably last quite a while. However, for gameplay reasons, I can understand if we'd want to limit it's effect (maybe blood stream injection of bacta wears off quickly). Any suggestions?

[Maxstate]

Also, about Bacta, I'm trying to come up with a realistic way to do it but I can't come up with something yet. Realistically any sort of shot should kick in pretty quickly and probably last quite a while. However, for gameplay reasons, I can understand if we'd want to limit it's effect (maybe blood stream injection of bacta wears off quickly). Any suggestions?

 

I think maybe more potent or more uses should be buyable for starters, I'd like to see it work as something that heals you over time. Like 15 HP every 3 seconds for 15 seconds? It shouldn't be instaheal. Jedi Heal I think should work on the same principle and I also think that it should only be usable after/when you meditate.

 

Nice job on the flamethrower, can't wait to use it

It should be an item I think, would bring more use to the inventory again. Unless making it a weapon is easier for ya.

[razorace]

We do have two versions of the bacta tanks. A normal one and a large one.

[JRHockney*]

Nice job on the flamethrower, can't wait to use it

It should be an item I think, would bring more use to the inventory again. Unless making it a weapon is easier for ya.

 

Hmm, unless the flamethrower has some other use other than killing people, I think it should be a weapon.

 

Idea: since there's no repeater in the movies, what would you guys think about using the clone rifle that MB2 uses?

[razorace]

I suppose we could.

[Darth Cariss]

I think the Flame Thrower should be an item, or it's own button (Like MBII, Special Button 1).

[Sushi_CW]

I say weapon.

[JRHockney*]

I'm more inclined to say weapon as well just because I'm not sure if constant access to it is a good idea in terms of balance. MB2 sort of does it that way, but thats only together with a pistol. I mean we're talking in back and forth between rocket launchers (or another power weapon) and the flame thrower here. Also it just seems that a gun that kill people as you shoot them is more of a weapon. I don't know, we need to be careful on this one.

[razorace]

I agree. Flamethrowers are very much an anti-jedi weapon and need to be treated very carefully. Personally, I've been thinking that using the flamethrower drains your jetpack fuel. That way mercs can't overspam the flamethrower without sacrificing their ability to use their jetpack.

[razorace]

It's been brought up that it might be fun/interesting to have a player's experience points transfer between maps/map_restarts. What do you guys think about that?

[plasticrat]

thats a great idea razor, especially if map rotations are like 30 to 40 mins, oh, and I think the flamethrower should be an item, it seems to be that sort of accessible thing.

[Sushi_CW]

I'd be fine with letting the points reset after each map. It ensures that all players are on equal footing, at least in the beginning of a map rotation.

[Wytchking]

Force Drain -----> Shroud of the Dark Side (Tier 3)

 

The Dark Side clouds everything. A big theme in the Prequel Movies. The Jedi constantly complain of their connection to the Force being somewhat clouded, or even weakened. A user of the Shroud weakens their targets connection to the Force, causing a draining effect against the opponent, and reducing the effectiveness of their attacks temporarily.

 

Use:

A spell cast just like Drain. This can either be a cone like "shot", or we could modify it to act like a passive field that quickly shoots out. Field or shot lasts one second. Drain user cannot reinitiate the cloud until after a 60 second cooldown (no constant shroud barrages). Opponents attack level is also temporarily drained for a few seconds (5 seconds max). Gunners find their aiming skewed and weapon damage decreased. Can be countered by target's Force Sense level (having it turned on during casting). Other counters include Battle Meditation (since it would reincrease DP damage per swing).

 

Effect:

The Shroud user loses a sizeable FP chunk (50-30-20). Upon use, the target's Mishap Meter shoots up towards critical levels, allowing for an early disarm, heavy bounce from a parry, knockdown, or the like. DPs are also somewhat drained (10-20-25 pts).

 

(Lord Sidious quickly surprises and coup de graces several Jedi Masters that were considered master-swordsman. Perhaps they're senses were clouded by the quick surprised attack)

I personally don't like the sound of shroud of the darkside. What about something more along the lines of DF2's force throw as used by Darth Vader? It would require you to add more throwable objects to maps (random placing?) but it could work like this:

 

Level 1: A delay before the object moves

Level 2: No delay

Level 3: Faster object movement/Multiple objects

 

Perhaps put a red glow around the object so the opponent knows it's coming and make it pushable. If it does hit it could do some damage and knock them into a parry or you could make it so they dodge it.

[Maxstate]

I personally don't like the sound of shroud of the darkside. What about something more along the lines of DF2's force throw as used by Darth Vader? It would require you to add more throwable objects to maps (random placing?) but it could work like this:

 

Level 1: A delay before the object moves

Level 2: No delay

Level 3: Faster object movement/Multiple objects

 

Perhaps put a red glow around the object so the opponent knows it's coming and make it pushable. If it does hit it could do some damage and knock them into a parry or you could make it so they dodge it.

 

I suggested this long ago, too much coding/not worth it.