U.S. --2007 Military Draft--

[Darth Reign]

U.S. --2007 Military Draft--

I just got word that there may be a military draft. Does anyone else have more intel?

[MasterRoss08]

Yes ive heard of this in the paper. But this is just news. This guy thats

bringing this up again tried the same thing some years back and nothing

happend because it was shotdown. And chances are it will be shot down

again. People dont want the draft. The president doesnt want the draft.

I dont want the draft for sure. Senators,Congressmen dont want the draft

So I dont see it happening. Besides this isnt world war 2 people. If a world

war 3 happend I probally deffinatley see a draft happening but until then(which

I hope never comes) It aint gonna happen.

[Darth Reign]

Recently, the president said the draft may be an option. I also heard that the Marines are thinking about the proposal.

[Samnmax221]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. This is the same old crazy Democrat who tried it years ago, won't draw more than 5 votes. Face it conscription into the US Military has been dead since the Reagan Administration.

[Darth Reign]

You are probally right. Maybe it will just fade away.

[Emperor Devon]

In the unlikely event it is true, there's always Canada.

[Samuel Dravis]

Apparently the guy came up with it to prevent our friendly Congresspeople from sending us to war too quickly. I suggest actually holding them accountable if that's what the purpose is. It's rediculous to actually have to hold their children hostage just so they don't start a war.

 

"That's it G.W., better not get uppity or we're gonna get Jenna and send her in first!"

[Spider AL]

Originally Posted by Samnmax221:

Face it conscription into the US Military has been dead since the Reagan Administration.

I highly doubt that the US government would have any qualms at all about re-introducing the draft, should they feel the need to invade somewhere else and start a war on a third major front. After all, they'll need the troops in such an eventuality. And frankly, a little propaganda here, a little scare-mongering there... and the US public would shut up and accept it.

 

However, let's say for a moment that your original proposition- that conscription is totally deceased, is bereft of life and rests in peace- is correct.

 

Well, there are ways to increase the number of gullible young men and women joining the military that have nothing to DO with conscription:

 

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2626032&page=1

- Army recruiters diabolically misleading students...

 

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/11/23/army_strong_slogan_leads_recruiting_push/

- Totally idiotic advertising campaign for recruitment, equally misleading...

 

Frankly, who needs conscription?

[Jae Onasi]

I think it should be like in Israel--everyone should serve their country in some capacity for a year or two, peace or war. Obviously there'd have to be exemptions for something like medical problems. I like the idea of conscientious objectors having the option to do community service, like they have in Germany.

[Samnmax221]

I think it should be like in Israel--everyone should serve their country in some capacity for a year or two, peace or war. Obviously there'd have to be exemptions for something like medical problems. I like the idea of conscientious objectors having the option to do community service, like they have in Germany.

Conscription is the tool of Stalin's and the Hitler's, it should have no place in country such as ours. I'm willingly joining the Air Guard to pay for my College, if I was being forced to serve my country it would be an entirely different manner. Any Country that will force me to serve is not a country I would want to serve, I am nobodies slave and will not subordinate my goals to the goals of the country.

[Spider AL]

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

I think it should be like in Israel--everyone should serve their country in some capacity for a year or two, peace or war. Obviously there'd have to be exemptions for something like medical problems. I like the idea of conscientious objectors having the option to do community service, like they have in Germany.

So in effect, you want to punish committed moralists for being so... so... so MORAL!

 

I may have couched that sentiment in a non-serious way, but I'm very serious, and it's a very serious issue. Anyone who objectively looks at the armed forces of any major world power cannot fail to realise that those armies are literally there to enact the immoral will of corrupt power centres. Therefore anyone who wishes to participate by joining the army is either poorly informed or worse, amoral themselves.

 

Your idea of emulating the policies of other nations that demand national service is tantamount to desiring that those who disagree with the army's perennially immoral acts around the world should be FORCED to participate in those acts. And if they don't wish to participate, they're to be treated like criminals and do community service.

 

Quite reprehensible, in short.

[Emperor Devon]

I think it should be like in Israel--everyone should serve their country in some capacity for a year or two, peace or war. Obviously there'd have to be exemptions for something like medical problems. I like the idea of conscientious objectors having the option to do community service, like they have in Germany.

 

As a student who's not even gotten out of college, I find the idea that I'd have to set aside my studies to serve time in the military or do community service repugnant.

 

For adolescents, many schools require community service. But making legal adults do involuntary and possibly payless labor? If you're going along with that, you should have ALL adults do forced service for their country, or it's plain age discrimination.

 

Your husband might serve in the military, but just because he does doesn't mean everyone else should. I've got grades to maintain, and the idea that I should perform service for my country before I'm even at the stage to hold a career is questionable. I already disagree with the U.S. government on a number of issues. Conscripted labor would be enough to have me moving to Canada. Even in Communism, you're given payment for your services.

 

This idea sounds only a step away from the government using civilians as workers they don't pay. Labor without compensation comes awfully close to slavery...

 

Please elaborate on your idea. So far, it seems to imply the government would have the right to force me to scrape graffiti off walls or get screamed at by a drill sergeant every morning. Those are jobs for volunteers or convicts. If I intended to be a worker, I wouldn't be bothering with an education.

[TheTexasPirate!]

As a student who's not even gotten out of college, I find the idea that I'd have to set aside my studies to serve time in the military or do community service repugnant.

 

For adolescents, many schools require community service. But making legal adults do involuntary and possibly payless labor? If you're going along with that, you should have ALL adults do forced service for their country, or it's plain age discrimination.

 

Your husband might serve in the military, but just because he does doesn't mean everyone else should. I've got grades to maintain, and the idea that I should perform service for my country before I'm even at the stage to hold a career is questionable. I already disagree with the U.S. government on a number of issues. Conscripted labor would be enough to have me moving to Canada. Even in Communism, you're given payment for your services.

 

This idea sounds only a step away from the government using civilians as workers they don't pay. Labor without compensation comes awfully close to slavery...

 

Please elaborate on your idea. So far, it seems to imply the government would have the right to force me to scrape graffiti off walls or get screamed at by a drill sergeant every morning. Those are jobs for volunteers or convicts. If I intended to be a worker, I wouldn't be bothering with an education.

 

 

Well I dont think they are re-instating slavery so PAYLESS work you will not do.

The draft will take people from 18 to 42 to serve in the United States millitary.

Not "scrape grafiti from the walls", you have been misinformed.

Also if enroled in college you do not have to serve in the millitary.

I think if they would go to our extencive prison system they could get alot of vollenteers with out having to resort to the draft.

 

[Samnmax221]

Even in Communism, you're given payment for your services.

Last time I checked the people who served in the Gulags weren't paid, or even fed well.

[Emperor Devon]

Well I dont think they are re-instating slavery so PAYLESS work you will not do. {snip}

 

I was talking about Jae's idea.

 

Last time I checked the people who served in the Gulags weren't paid, or even fed well.

 

Good thing the Russians weren't Communists, then.

[TheTexasPirate!]

It was Senator Rangel that brought it up Wasn't it? The reinstating the draft.

[Nancy Allen``]

Before you start bashing Bush on this...

 

[Samnmax221]

Good thing the Russians weren't Communists, then.

Well I don't know a better word for a government that restricts the Economic and Personal freedoms of the individuals living under it, whether they like it or not. Karl Marx said himself that it would only work if he was in charge, I doubt it could even work then. I will never surrender my freedoms or property to anyone "for the sake of society", I don't give a damn what incompetent schmuck's you want to help, you're not taking my property or my freedom to do so.

[Spider AL]

Well I don't know a better word for a government that restricts the Economic and Personal freedoms of the individuals living under it, whether they like it or not.

This is tangential, but you've just described most of the governments in the world, including your own, and mine. Nobody is free to earn without also paying to the state amounts that are dictated by the state, and personal freedoms? What little personal freedom we have (that has been won in recent decades by popular movements) is being eroded as we speak by constant destruction of civil liberty.

 

Just a nice little happy thought for you. Communism? It's never been done. Neither has democracy. Nor capitalism, in fact. Those are all pure political ideals. What WE have, are completely different mongrel systems of governance.

[TheTexasPirate!]

I have tried to enlist in the millitary several times but I have 2 felony convictions and did not graduate from high school, I have a GED.

[Jae Onasi]

Please elaborate on your idea. So far, it seems to imply the government would have the right to force me to scrape graffiti off walls or get screamed at by a drill sergeant every morning. Those are jobs for volunteers or convicts. If I intended to be a worker, I wouldn't be bothering with an education.

 

I never said it would be unpaid work. Anyone drafted in the US got paid, same thing would happen for those who conscientiously object. If it was part of the national culture, things like scholarships would be held for that person til s/he got done with the service. Or the service could be deferred til after school, which would be to the country's advantage in some cases--having licensed paramedics, nurses, doctors, lawyers, CPAs, etc., doing their service after they finish school would benefit them (with extra experience) and the country (who would have a variety of professionals serving besides the 18 year olds--they need the med and legal pros). Anyone not wanting to serve in the military because of objector status could do work stateside, say in public health clinics, legal aid, etc., etc., etc....

[Samnmax221]

This is tangential, but you've just described most of the governments in the world, including your own, and mine. Nobody is free to earn without also paying to the state amounts that are dictated by the state, and personal freedoms? What little personal freedom we have (that has been won in recent decades by popular movements) is being eroded as we speak by constant destruction of civil liberty.

I'm simply saying a Night watchman State would be much fairer then the **** that goes on now. I'm sick of having to pay for everyone else's Health care, and into a Social Security pool that will go bankrupt by the time I'm 30. I'm sick of the notion that I was born owing anyone else in this world anything, but now it is common to hear people talk about how "We're all in this together whether we like it or not".

 

Just a nice little happy thought for you. Communism? It's never been done. Neither has democracy. Nor capitalism, in fact. Those are all pure political ideals. What WE have, are completely different mongrel systems of governance.

Any Government class will teach you that there is no such thing as a pure ideology, I don't need to hear it again.

[Spider AL]

I'm simply saying a Night watchman State would be much fairer then the **** that goes on now. I'm sick of having to pay for everyone else's Health care, and into a Social Security pool that will go bankrupt by the time I'm 30. I'm sick of the notion that I was born owing anyone else in this world anything, but now it is common to hear people talk about how "We're all in this together whether we like it or not".

Things like social security and national healthcare are positive things precisely because they are concepts by which one can adhere to a high moral standard. Those with power have responsibility above and beyond those without power. Money allows one to influence society, so the more money you have, the more responsibility you have to use that money morally.

 

If you decide that you have no moral responsibility to your fellow citizens, you have essentially chosen to be amoral.

 

As for your country's "social security pool going bankrupt", I'm not qualified to comment. But if we accept your assertion, it would seem yet another reason to campaign against your corrupt system of governance, this time for mis-managing public resources.

 

Any Government class will teach you that there is no such thing as a pure ideology, I don't need to hear it again.

It's an important thing to remember, since we're told constantly to hate specific ideologies, and are given spurious reasons (if any) for hating these ideologies. Actually capitalism and socialism would both be excellent ways to run a state, if they were EVER EMPLOYED. We've never gotten close to either, let alone democracy.

 

Jae: Still flagrantly immoral, for the reasons I posted above.

[Samnmax221]

If you decide that you have no moral responsibility to your fellow citizens, you have essentially chosen to be amoral.

They can very well go and pay their own way like I have, yet they refuse to and and attempt to win the sympathy of those who are not incompetent. The fact they I am successful doesn't make me a slave to those who are not.

[Spider AL]

They can very well go and pay their own way like I have, yet they refuse to and and attempt to win the sympathy of those who are not incompetent.

Hmm. Basically equivalent to "Get a job you bum!"

 

And morally speaking, the fact that you are "successful"- by which I must presume that you mean that you have a bit of cash stored up at the moment- gives you responsibilities as well as privileges. The wellbeing of the society you have "succeeded" within, depends directly on its citizens taking their moral responsibilities seriously.

 

The more people take their moral responsibilities seriously, the better the quality of life for the whole society becomes.

 

The fact they I am successful doesn't make me a slave to those who are not.

Slave? It's your decision whether to be a moral man or an amoral man. Nobody can compel you to be moral, so slavery is hardly a suitable analogy. You either decide to be moral and accept the responsibilities that go with morality, or you decide to be totally self-interested and therefore amoral. Either way, the burden you carry is self-imposed.