JRHockney's OJP Enhanced code changes

[Maxstate]

i dunno about that since I've never once lost alot of FP when using Makashi.

 

 

Let's see:

Djem So = Strength

Juyo = Aggressiveness

 

If Juyo is any similar to Vaapad then I would have to agree on moving the +10% DP damage to it.

 

Also, in the EPIII novel, Dooku lost stamina while defending against Anakin's Djem So attacks so I have to agree on replacing Djem So's effect to FP dramage from an unparried Attack Fake.

 

 

Make the limit into 2 styles since most Jedi are fluent at 2-3 styles. Make Shii Cho the default stance that all Jedi should have (being the most basic and all) and make the other two stances to be the once for the player to choose.

 

and to make the suggestion more in-depth:

Saber Offense Lv.1 = Player can use 1 style and that would only be Shii Cho (default Style)

Saber Offense Lv.2 = Player can use 2 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 2nd one.

Saber Offense Lv.3 = Player can use 3 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 3rd one.

 

To sum it all up, the player will be able to use Shii Cho at Lv1 then 2 more styles at Lv2 and Lv3 which he/she would be able to choose when he/she reaches Lv2 and Lv3.

 

And to make it MORE in-depth: (just something to spice things up)

 

Since there are Jedi who are 'Masters' of certain styles, this is my suggestion. When player reaches Lv3, he/she can choose to upgrade either Shii Cho or his/her Lv2 style. It's not gonna be something big. Just simple upgrades like:

 

+1 DP damage

+1 DP Defense (attacker gets -1 DP damage)(also works with normal blocks)

+1 FP regen

+1 Mishap damage (only when the attack isn't parried)

 

So if say a Makashi user upgrades the style with +1 Mishap damage, then that style will deal 3 Mishap damage to the opponent instead of 2. And if Soresu is upgraded with +1 DP defense, well let's just say that he/she will be harder to get killed.

 

 

This one I agree.

Vaapad/Juyo is not aggressiveness, Ataru is aggressiveness..

Juyo is ferocity, it takes the power of Djem-So and the speed of Ataru only to create it's very own style, and then an element of randomness is added.

 

It's hard to fight against it for the same reason you, as a master swordsman(hypothetical), will have difficulty fighting and will probably lose to a person that knows nothing of swordfighting only because his movement will be very unpredictable and volatile since he does not follow your routine.

 

Yay mantis got is compizzled!111

[mark2000]

I stand corrected but as of right now, there's nothing about Juyo that makes it any confusing.

 

I'm still thinking its effect should be something more like double hits but that isn't really any different from giving additional DP damage from succesful AFs so I still believe that Djem So's effect should be transfered to Juyo and give Djem So FP damage instead.

 

Although this FP damage should be big enough or it'll end up being almost as unnoticable as Makashi's.

 

I just realized this but adding DP damage to Juyo doesn't really make it confusing though....I think it's effect should be something more random. How about a 25% chance of Slowbounce from an unparried AF instead? That alone should make it useful enough............I think....

 

 

BTW. Something should seriously be done about Soresu's animations. If by saying "hacksaw", you guys were talking about soresu's continuous short left right swings, then that's the thing making it annoying right now. Because of it, you'll look like you're getting multiple hits from a saber in front of you that's not even swinging at all.

[Sazabi]

I stand corrected but as of right now, there's nothing about Juyo that makes it any confusing.

 

lies. i got confused when using it, because swings looked pretty random and not easy to control. atleast thats how it looks to ojp noob

 

on more serious note i cant see too much usefulness in it on paper.

djem so looks so much better. i guess we will have to read descriptions of this saber form a few times and find what we can actually implement into game

[mark2000]

lies. i got confused when using it, because swings looked pretty random and not easy to control. atleast thats how it looks to ojp noob

are you sure? They look as plain as Shii Cho to me(not to mention it's also as easy to parry).

[razorace]

In addition, I cheked in latest SVN source rev370, but same crash error.

I can't wait bug fix, Razor.

I'm still working on getting the MeatGrinder to work. *shakes fist* Based on my qconsole.log output. It looks like there's a problem with the ROFF system and this is causing a system crash at game shutdown.

 

Are you getting something like a "Can't load ROFF file (null)" error?

[razorace]

I'm still thinking its effect should be something more like double hits but that isn't really any different from giving additional DP damage from succesful AFs so I still believe that Djem So's effect should be transfered to Juyo and give Djem So FP damage instead.

What would the disadvantage be to Djem So to offset the FP damage?

 

I just realized this but adding DP damage to Juyo doesn't really make it confusing though....I think it's effect should be something more random. How about a 25% chance of Slowbounce from an unparried AF instead? That alone should make it useful enough............I think....

Attack fakes already cause slowbounces if they go into a saberlock (which always happens if the players are facing each other and don't parry).

 

BTW. Something should seriously be done about Soresu's animations. If by saying "hacksaw", you guys were talking about soresu's continuous short left right swings, then that's the thing making it annoying right now. Because of it, you'll look like you're getting multiple hits from a saber in front of you that's not even swinging at all.

I've done a lot of code to make sure that no fair comboing shouldn't occur. If the swings are unfair beyond that, it really should be fixed thru speeding up/down the swing and windup animations.

[mark2000]

Attack fakes already cause slowbounces if they go into a saberlock (which always happens if the players are facing each other and don't parry).

 

oh...I forgot about that. Well, unless someone gives Juyo a useful effect that can make it 'unpredictable' then it might as well be removed from the styles although having just 4 styles would be such a bummer.

 

What would the disadvantage be to Djem So to offset the FP damage?

How about a decrease in Mishap Recovery Time? Maybe that'll keep people from spamming it too much.

 

Anyway, if Juyo is already beyond saving, maybe you should just replace it with Ataru. Give Ataru the same DP damage as Juyo. It's effect would be something like 'Increased DP damage during Aerial Strikes' (the cartwheels and such) since Ataru loves acrobatics.

[Tanqexe]

One idea to prevent the spamming Djem So's FP damage would be to limit the the damage bonus to only over-shoulder or overhead swings, which people usually parry. In the Rise of Darth Vader novel, Vader used Djem So to beat some poor Jedi into submission with overhead strikes. According to what we see in the movies and the description on Wookieepedia, Djem So's power uses a lot of powerful over the shoulder swings (like a bat) to press the assault. Since people can usually parry the overhead swings, that could be the disadvantage of the perk. This would result in a Djem So user having to be more strategic to fully take advantage of the style, because if they can do it skillfully, they can quickly tire out their opponents with a bunch of unsuspecting overhead swings that they craftily set up.

 

Juyo can be confusing if we can somehow vary the animation speed of different strikes to make it more unpredictable. If possible, perhaps make it so that if someone delivers a combo of 3 unparried hits, the third hit will cause a +10% DP damage. OR, change the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing so that whereas other styles are committed to a swing at a certain point, a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake (Mace was kind of doing this in the last segment of his duel with Sidious), and when it lands unparried it will cause the opponent to stumble or be unable to parry for a few seconds, forcing them to have to block instead.

 

Or it can be something along those lines. Juyo isn't beyond saving, I just think that people don't know how to use Juyo's swings effectively to confuse opponents. Its swings are supposed to be wide and open, almost like you can expect it to hit somewhere, but at the last moment it ends up hitting you somewhere else. If we can facilitate that somehow as a perk then we're good to go.

[Maxstate]

 

OR, change the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing so that whereas other styles are committed to a swing at a certain point, a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake

This is something I've thought about too but we would have to give the user a lot more control over his actions for two reasons: 1: Two fake windups take more time to execute and can be canceled with a quick hit, 2: You could do 2 fake windups on accident.

[Mantis01]

I'm still working on getting the MeatGrinder to work. *shakes fist* Based on my qconsole.log output. It looks like there's a problem with the ROFF system and this is causing a system crash at game shutdown.

 

Are you getting something like a "Can't load ROFF file (null)" error?

 

The "ROFF" error is not found in error log.

 

I'm interested in your linux environment.

Let me know your Linux distribution(+version), and kernel version ?

[Tanqexe]

This is something I've thought about too but we would have to give the user a lot more control over his actions for two reasons: 1: Two fake windups take more time to execute and can be canceled with a quick hit, 2: You could do 2 fake windups on accident.

 

I don't mind that Juyo will require a lot more control on the part of the user. It's supposed to be a pretty wild style, and if used correctly it can be pretty devastating. Increasing the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing and also allowing for a secondary directional change will give even more control to the player. Let's say that in the case of someone attempting a quick hit to cancel out the execution, we can allow the Juyo duelist a small window of time to change the direction of the strike, and instead of forcing the Juyo duelist to return to ready stance or block, he can initiate a combo then and there.

 

(It's late for me and I have no idea if this is making any sense at all)

[mark2000]

If possible, perhaps make it so that if someone delivers a combo of 3 unparried hits, the third hit will cause a +10% DP damage.

That's Djem So's effect already.

 

a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake

Any style can let you continuously change your AF swing direction as many as you want.

 

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)

 

when it lands unparried it will cause the opponent to stumble or be unable to parry for a few seconds, forcing them to have to block instead.

I think you might be on to something there regarding the "unable to parry" part.

 

Here's a suggestion for the effect based on that idea:

25% chance of inflicting CONFUSED status to the opponent after dealing an unparried AF.

 

CONFUSED = Unable to parry for 5 seconds

 

The logic is that if the opponent gets confused, he'll lose his rythm and won't be in the condition to be able to parry your attacks.

 

Or it can be something along those lines. Juyo isn't beyond saving, I just think that people don't know how to use Juyo's swings effectively to confuse opponents.

Let's not talk about "skill" for now because if you strip away all the special effects of all the styles then Juyo will be no different from all the other styles. The only thing that'll set them apart then would just be their animations and that's just not enough to be considered as Juyo's specialty.

 

Its swings are supposed to be wide and open, almost like you can expect it to hit somewhere, but at the last moment it ends up hitting you somewhere else. If we can facilitate that somehow as a perk then we're good to go.

I like where you're heading there but what you are suggesting should then be an attack or animation that no other style has and it should also be "worthy" to be considered a special effect or else people will just say "that's just part of Juyo's attack animations. Nothing special".

 

~~~~~

 

BTW. If the "FP damage" thing for Djem So just won't cut it, how about this:

 

25% chance of inflicting +10% DP damage

 

Giving it 17 DP damage can already consider it a 'powerful style' and adding more power to it through consecutive hitting would just be too much so instead, we'll just give it an effect that happens randomly (call it a "Critical Strike" if you will) so even if you managed to AF spam your opponent, you still won't be able to exploit the effect because it only happens at random.

 

This effect will only happen with a probability of 1 out of 4.

[Tanqexe]

That's Djem So's effect already.

 

Djem So's current effect is that you attack fake to get that 10% DP drain. Very spammable especially with the low attack fakes. I'm talking about 3-hit combos such that at the third hit there will be a damage bonus. Different mechanic to achieve the effect and makes it less spammable.

 

 

Any style can let you continuously change your AF swing direction as many as you want.

 

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)

 

Not true. You only change one direction before you're committed to making a swing in another direction. I'm talking about having it, for example, look like you're going to do an overhead, which quickly turns to a low left but just as quickly moves up into a top left or right, fast enough to catch someone unsuspecting off guard because they think you're just doing a normal attack fake but slow enough for someone with good reaction time to hit you. The key is to have the use of Juyo to be difficult but very rewarding to pull off. Movie realism wise, there's a reason why not many people use Form VII - it takes a lot of control to use well.

 

 

I think you might be on to something there regarding the "unable to parry" part.

 

Here's a suggestion for the effect based on that idea:

25% chance of inflicting CONFUSED status to the opponent after dealing an unparried AF.

 

CONFUSED = Unable to parry for 5 seconds

 

The logic is that if the opponent gets confused, he'll lose his rythm and won't be in the condition to be able to parry your attacks.

 

If something's going to hit, it might as well be assured a sure shot to have an effect. Having someone pull off a "special" attack and it being unreliable to do anything remarkable just isn't that rewarding. I don't like the notion of having any kind of percentage chance of status ailment. Like razorace, I want to remove any kind of "lucky shot" out of the system.

 

Inability to parry for 5 seconds is too fatal in a heated saber duel. Decreasing the window to 2 or 3 seconds would suffice.

 

Let's not talk about "skill" for now because if you strip away all the special effects of all the styles then Juyo will be no different from all the other styles. The only thing that'll set them apart then would just be their animations and that's just not enough to be considered as Juyo's specialty.

 

The skill of knowing how to take full advantage of different styles' attributes helps you win in a duel. I know what you're saying, that Juyo's specialty should not be in its animation, but that's not what I'm saying to begin with. I'm saying that for more normal Juyo attacks, if a person doesn't know how to take advantage of the different types of swings in the Juyo animation set to begin with then of course they can't really confuse and catch an opponent off-balance.

 

The different animations produce different dynamics and strategies. Shii-cho may look pretty basic but if you underestimate it it can land more blows than you can react to parry - play with Jon a couple times and you'll know. The swings of Makashi can look like they're going in one direction but they're really going in another - almost like a feint; Soresu's swings are minimalistic and relatively slow, and you can hide some of your different directions of attacks or fakes that way, compared to other styles. Sure if you're playing against a bot who doesn't pay attention to these facts, it won't make a difference, but against a player who does know the difference, you can be in for a few surprises.

 

 

I like where you're heading there but what you are suggesting should then be an attack or animation that no other style has and it should also be "worthy" to be considered a special effect or else people will just say "that's just part of Juyo's attack animations. Nothing special".

 

Again I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Giving the user more control of when a fake actually becomes a committed swing without having to return to ready stance doesn't really have to do with Juyo's animations. It's just another perk, except that the mechanics of how it's done gives a Juyo duelist a greater advantage of control in faking someone out before unleashing the hurt - and then rewarding a subsequent hit with a damage bonus or status ailment.

 

Basically, I want to make the aspect of the fake (the part of the swing before you're committed to an attack) more useful in misdirection for Juyo, and then give a reward for a successful attack after the misdirection. The greater degree of control of when a a fake becomes an attack is both an advantage and a disadvantage for the style in that not so many people can skillfully pull off misdirections and cash in on them, but if they do they will be rewarded.

 

 

BTW. If the "FP damage" thing for Djem So just won't cut it, how about this:

 

25% chance of inflicting +10% DP damage

 

Giving it 17 DP damage can already consider it a 'powerful style' and adding more power to it through consecutive hitting would just be too much so instead, we'll just give it an effect that happens randomly (call it a "Critical Strike" if you will) so even if you managed to AF spam your opponent, you still won't be able to exploit the effect because it only happens at random.

 

This effect will only happen with a probability of 1 out of 4.

 

Random effects in combat are extremely annoying. I'm sure you've seen the lightning mishap bug happen a few times by now.

[UDM]

Yeah no luck shots please!

[razorace]

The "ROFF" error is not found in error log.

 

I'm interested in your linux environment.

Let me know your Linux distribution(+version), and kernel version ?

buh, I don't know. I'm just using EscapedTurkey.com's servers.

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)

The old code used to allow unlimited AF changes, but the more recent code (say, the last 6 months) is only supposed to allow one AF before the actual attack swing. I made this change for simplicity but we could probably change that up a bit.

[mark2000]

Djem So's current effect is that you attack fake to get that 10% DP drain. Very spammable especially with the low attack fakes. I'm talking about 3-hit combos such that at the third hit there will be a damage bonus. Different mechanic to achieve the effect and makes it less spammable.

Even so, in the end, the effect is still the same. +10% DP damage is already Djem So's department right now so let's not use that one for uniqueness' sake.

 

If something's going to hit, it might as well be assured a sure shot to have an effect. Having someone pull off a "special" attack and it being unreliable to do anything remarkable just isn't that rewarding. I don't like the notion of having any kind of percentage chance of status ailment. Like razorace, I want to remove any kind of "lucky shot" out of the system.

 

Inability to parry for 5 seconds is too fatal in a heated saber duel. Decreasing the window to 2 or 3 seconds would suffice.

One thing with controlled shots is that, one way or another, they'll eventually become spammable. If you have a plan on avoiding that then be my guest.

 

I might have to agree on the Confusion time though. 2-3 seconds should be enough.

 

The old code used to allow unlimited AF changes, but the more recent code (say, the last 6 months) is only supposed to allow one AF before the actual attack swing. I made this change for simplicity but we could probably change that up a bit.

well that explains alot of things. Thanks for the info.

 

Again I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Giving the user more control of when a fake actually becomes a committed swing without having to return to ready stance doesn't really have to do with Juyo's animations. It's just another perk, except that the mechanics of how it's done gives a Juyo duelist a greater advantage of control in faking someone out before unleashing the hurt - and then rewarding a subsequent hit with a damage bonus or status ailment.

 

Basically, I want to make the aspect of the fake (the part of the swing before you're committed to an attack) more useful in misdirection for Juyo, and then give a reward for a successful attack after the misdirection. The greater degree of control of when a a fake becomes an attack is both an advantage and a disadvantage for the style in that not so many people can skillfully pull off misdirections and cash in on them, but if they do they will be rewarded.

Since razor already cleared things up to me about the AF faking, then this type of AF, as long as it's unique to Juyo, should be fine by me.

[Tanqexe]

Even so, in the end, the effect is still the same. +10% DP damage is already Djem So's department right now so let's not use that one for uniqueness' sake.

 

I think you got things confused. I said that this kind of perk can be used for Juyo if we switch Djem So to FP drain from overhead and over-shoulder attack fakes. Naturally it would be redundant for both Djem So and Juyo to deal the same kind of effect.

 

 

One thing with controlled shots is that, one way or another, they'll eventually become spammable. If you have a plan on avoiding that then be my guest.

 

I might have to agree on the Confusion time though. 2-3 seconds should be enough.

 

If you have a good enough reaction time to know when to make the hit when it counts without someone being able to defend against it in time, then that's a show of skill. As I said, make the move hard to pull off (since it requires some timing so that someone with great reaction time can be fast enough or on guard enough to parry it), but give the successful hit a sure-shot bonus to reward the player for his good execution. Assigning a percentage chance of an effect happening is, again, very frustrating for both parties and is not a good way to reduce spammability. If it's hard to pull off, then it will less likely to be spammed to great effect.

 

Thinking about it some more, the parrying paralysis effect would be a better perk for Juyo because in the time that it takes to launch the combo or two-direction attack fake, the same person could have gotten one more hit in which would weigh in with more DP damage than a couple hits plus a bonus on the last hit. Parrying paralysis would be more significant and worth the trouble.

[mark2000]

I think you got things confused. I said that this kind of perk can be used for Juyo if we switch Djem So to FP drain from overhead and over-shoulder attack fakes. Naturally it would be redundant for both Djem So and Juyo to deal the same kind of effect.

OH! LOL. I forgot you've already mentioned about Djem So's FP damage. My bad.

 

make the move hard to pull off

and that 'move' would be something like......the Double Fake you mentioned earlier correct? I guess anyone who loves spamming the normal swing could easily break a Double Fake but I feel like the move should be something even harder to do.

 

BTW. Since AF's can also register a hit even though they don't instantly go into a saberlock, do you think that the Status effect from the Double Fake should register from both a regular hit and after a saberlock? Personally, I don't think that the effect should happen after a saberlock has finished since those things are mostly about strength so it's hardly logical that someone will get confused after a saberlock has finished since there's really nothing "confusing" or random about it.

[Maxstate]

Well.. is it true that Power attacks reset the mishap bar? How about when using Juyo it stays at it's current position regardless of what kind of attack it is. (Unless it's a riposte or something ofcourse)

[Maxstate]

That way Juyo guys can power attack their opponent and make them keep the same mishap level even when PA'd.

 

Crap edit != post

[rut-wa jodar]

JRHockney,

 

I played on your server today, and I got creamed by "Anakin" who was either a player who doesn`t speak much,or the smartest Bot i have ever Dueled against. Damn he was good and he didn`t need to use force powers to kick my A**

[razorace]

I'm pretty sure Anakin is a bot on hocky's server.

[rut-wa jodar]

That`s what i was afraid of, getting owned by a Bot

 

BTW!

Respect to Razorace for an outstanding mod.

[mark2000]

oh.....THAT bot....>_>

 

I think it's on Jedi Master and it probably has a big @ass amount of DP. I dueled with it once that lasted for about 20 minutes only to get killed in the end.....=_=

[razorace]

Assuming the server doesn't crash and the bot doesn't leave the game for some reason, it's very possible that "Anakin" has a boatload of skill points.