Kotor 2 Party members as opponents.

[Masgrtgr]

As we all know that depending on the Exile's alignment his/her allies could either be Light Side or Dark Side.

 

But what if the Kotor 3 main character and his/her allies are on the opposite side/alignment of the Kotor 2 crew? Do I smell conflict?

 

My point is I wouldn't be surprised if in Kotor 3 you encounter the Kotor 2 cast as boss characters.

[Emperor Devon]

Dunno, the true Sith don't strike me as the negotiating type. Would be hard to put the K2 party members on the opposite side of the PC.

 

That's canonizing their fates, too. I'm not wild about it being picked by the devs, even if they could end up being LS or DS. What if you want all parties to be the same alignment?

 

It would probably annoy a lot of players, too. A lot of them had fairly interesting backstories, and I got attached to quite a few of them. If they'd have to die I'd rather it be for some reason that would mesh well with the plot rather than as generic boss characters (which they don't really seem like they'd be good as anyhow).

 

And welcome to LF, Masgrtgr!

[SilentScope001]

Dunno, the true Sith don't strike me as the negotiating type. Would be hard to put the K2 party members on the opposite side of the PC.

 

I think some people do assume that. If you assume that the K3 character is aligned to the Jedi Order, and you have a DS Exile, then obivously, the DS Jedi companions (Atton, Visas, Bao-Dur, Handmadien/Disciple) will form a Sith Order. The Sith hate Jedi, so we can expect some conflicts.

 

This can easily be resolved by having the Jedi Order be a DARK Jedi Order, with Atton, Visas, Bao-Dur and the lot all remaining Dark Jedi but forming the Jedi Order anyway. I don't know how that would work though...

[Sir Palamides]

But what if the Kotor 3 main character and his/her allies are on the opposite side/alignment of the Kotor 2 crew?

 

actually a nice idea, but I think not the whole K2 crew should be on the opposite side, just some of them. you should meet every char of K2, some of the as opponents, some of them as friends (it depends on the selected path: light/dark)

[Jediphile]

Another problem lies with the relationship among the TSL companions, or rather lack thereof. While the LS exile might have served as a uniting factor, the DS exile is unlikely to have such an effect, and we know from the cut content that there were to have been confrontations among the companions resulting in death.

 

Even if we discount that, there is little friendship among them, as evidenced by their various struggles - Atton and Brianna hates each other, Bao-Dur is disgusted by Mandalore's lust for destruction, HK-47 loathes GOTO, who in return looks down on Bao-Dur's remote, nobody trusts Visas, and EVERYBODY hates Disciple... The list goes on and on.

 

I think you could use that only if put an option to choose exile's alignment in the game and then act accordingly, because I don't think you can set the exile to DS by default. In canon exile is LSF, so I would assume that is the default setting if any, just as Revan was LSM if you denied the question of Revan's gender and alignment in TSL.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I'd rather not kill my former party members. Although I wouldn't mind it if I got the chance to kill GO-TO, but with TSLRP coming out soon, he'll be dying at the end of TSL anyway. A lot of other people are like me too - they have become attached to some party members, and would rather not have to kill them. Maybe fighting them could be an option, but I don't think they should be bosses.

[adamqd]

I don't know bout opponents, but Handmaiden and Visas Mud wrestlin' and you as the Ref...

[azzakabaz]

i like adamqd's idea lets stick with that lolol

[NateDogg]

LOL, Yeah nice idea Adamqd.

 

In my opinion this could cause an intresting conflict and it's a good idea, I don't no if I'd like perse but, I'm not completely opposed to the idea of opposing companions.

[Arátoeldar]

Just say NO!!! Mkay? The only two NPC I want to see have any meaningful time in K3 are two droids.

[Masgrtgr]

Another problem lies with the relationship among the TSL companions, or rather lack thereof. While the LS exile might have served as a uniting factor, the DS exile is unlikely to have such an effect, and we know from the cut content that there were to have been confrontations among the companions resulting in death.

 

Even if we discount that, there is little friendship among them, as evidenced by their various struggles - Atton and Brianna hates each other, Bao-Dur is disgusted by Mandalore's lust for destruction, HK-47 loathes GOTO, who in return looks down on Bao-Dur's remote, nobody trusts Visas, and EVERYBODY hates Disciple... The list goes on and on.

 

I think you could use that only if put an option to choose exile's alignment in the game and then act accordingly, because I don't think you can set the exile to DS by default. In canon exile is LSF, so I would assume that is the default setting if any, just as Revan was LSM if you denied the question of Revan's gender and alignment in TSL.

 

First of all I'm aware of how dysfunctional The Exile's party is but really aren't Sith in General like that what with their self serving natures.

 

Besides even if the Kotor 2 cast dislike each other they all respect the Exile, and from what I can tell most of them are fairly loyal to him/her.

 

I mean lets look at the group shall we?

 

Atton:A possibly psychopathic ex-Jedi assassin who is loyal to the Exile either because he is his friend (Male) or because he loves her (Female) either way he is fairly loyal to the Exile and would do what he/she tells him.

 

Handmaiden:In my opinion she thinks of the Exile as a Father/Older Brother figure and possibly as a lover. In edition she is devoted to battle which fits in pretty well with Sith beliefs.

 

Visas:Same as Atton except replace Jedi assassin with Sith Apprentice and rearrange male and female.

 

Disciple:Despite his Boyscout personalty he does have some issues. For one thing he does somewhat doubt the Jedi Order and it's teachings and history has shown that even the smallest doubts can grow into something larger.... and more dangerous.

 

Goto:He probably does respect The DS Exile becaue of his/her methods and tactics. He also probably supports The Exile's group as a force for stability.

 

Hanharr:Same as Goto.

 

HK-47:He states that if The Exile was DS that he is proud to serve under him/her.

[The Architect]

I like SilentScope001’s idea, and the devs would too, since it saves a lot of trouble from a size/time perspective.

 

I mean, DS Visas is the only Sith amongst TSL crew. DS Atton, DS Handmaiden, DS Disciple and DS Bao-Dur were all Dark Jedi in TSL, and considering who they are, I cannot imagine any of those four becoming a Sith.

 

And why would DS Exile be a Sith anyway? He/she rejected becoming one at Malachor V, and all those Sith (Sion, Nihilus and their crew) were trying to kill him/her in TSL, so wouldn’t you hate them? I know DS Exile had a Sith class, but so what? That’s just a class.

 

I prefer to think of DS Exile as a Dark Jedi Master, who told his/her companions to form a Dark Jedi Order, who are nasty, corrupt (look DS) and have a Atris/Vrook type personality/philosophy. LS Exile’s companions would form a new Jedi Order, and they would have a Zez-Kai Ell/Jolee type personality/philosophy.

 

The K3 PC would be a promising student of this LS/DS Jedi Order, with an interesting back story (to suspend disbelief, to explain why you become powerful in a short amount of time).

 

And even if DS Exile’s companions are alive in KotOR III and they form a new Sith Order an all, the Republic, the Jedi, the “known” Sith and the Mandalorians need to temporarily cast their differences aside to deal with the currently biggest threat; the True Sith.

 

So either way, no conflict.

[SilentScope001]

I prefer to think of DS Exile as a Dark Jedi Master, who told his/her companions to form a Dark Jedi Order, who are nasty, corrupt (look DS) and have a Atris/Vrook type personality/philosophy. LS Exile’s companions would form a new Jedi Order, and they would have a Zez-Kai Ell/Jolee type personality/philosophy.

 

But it leads to the meta-plot question of wheter the Dark Jedi Order really should be considered a "Jedi Order". The Dark-Side Exile usually encourge the followers to give into feelings and rage...something that the "original" Jedi, like Vrook and Atris, wouldn't think of saying. Arrogance is a trait that I believe the Dark Jedi believe in, but there is more to the Dark Side than mere arrogance.

 

There is also the point that Disciple also calls himself Sith if you are Female and DS, but well, it can easily be dismissed as the Disciple KNOWING he is really Sith, even if he calls himself a Jedi Master.

 

For ease, it would prehaps be best to have the K3 developers claim that the Dark Jedi of K2 form the "Dark Jedi Order" in-game, but still...it will cause some people to feel a sort of...er...fear. Maybe it would be better for the players (aka us) to call this Dark Jedi Order an unoffical "Sith Order", while letting the game call it a 'Jedi Order'.

[The Architect]

Yeah, the Atris/Vrook style for a Dark Jedi Order in KotOR III wasn't a great example. For personality, yes, but teachings? Not so much.

 

Hmm, I guess DS Exile's companions wouldn't be Sith, but they wouldn't be Dark Jedi either.

 

???

 

They're on Coruscant (a big Republic affiliated planet), they're not goody-goody Jedi, but they don't have a neon-sign saying "WE'RE EVIL! DS FTW!" I tend to think that Coruscant is just a place DS Exile's companions would use because Dantooine's academy isn't the same (it's in pretty bad shape), Korriban is screwed, Malachor V looks pretty stuffed up, so why not just use Coruscant, and be corrupt, sly Palpatine style fakes?

 

After all, Coruscant's got a nice big Jedi temple, and comfortable Council seats that no one's using. And what the "fake" Jedi do and teach is their own business anyway. They should be able to hide their "DS'dness" from the Republic; that's the point.

 

Of course, to the K3 PC, they'd look DS, and wouldn't act like "normal" Jedi, but they wouldn't make it obvious that they're evil either. Who knows, they might have a "hidden agenda". Maybe DS Exile ordered that his/her companions "pull a Palpatine", and somehow turn the Republic into a tool of their own in the war to come against the True Sith.

 

Either way, I think your idea could work SilentScope001, and would be interesting.

[Rabish Bini]

I wouldn't mind killing some of my party members, specifically GO-TO, Mira (She got on my nerves), Bao-Dur (What a tool). And I also wouldn't mind killing KotOR 1 characters, such as Carth.

The one thing I care about is that Ravan and HK-47 are alive and playable, i'll be happy.

 

But I don't think that that idea will be used though...

[Jediphile]

And why would DS Exile be a Sith anyway? He/she rejected becoming one at Malachor V, and all those Sith (Sion, Nihilus and their crew) were trying to kill him/her in TSL, so wouldn’t you hate them? I know DS Exile had a Sith class, but so what? That’s just a class.

 

Hatred is quite common among the Sith, so hating and killing Sion and Nihilus and their ilk, and even Kreia, would in no way prevent the DS exile from being Sith.

 

And while I can agree with you that Sith classes don't matter at all, there is a very, VERY compelling reason why the DS exile would be Sith - the DS exile ends up being the new master of the Trayus Academy. You don't get to be much more Sith than that...

[SilentScope001]

Either way, I think your idea could work SilentScope001, and would be interesting.

 

Another thing you forget is that according to Disciple, the Jedi are useful as a symbol. If ANYONE claimed to be the Jedi, I'm sure all the Republic commanders would be pandering to that Jedi to come in and serve the Republic (not noticing them to be Dark Siders). They're that desperate for a symbol.

 

It would be interesting, but another flaw immeadily result itself: Isn't the galaxy basically screwed if the Galaxy is set to DS?

 

If Revan is set to DS, at least the Sith Empire is destroyed, so it's not as if he had much effect (other than Bastila being DSed, and Carth being replaced by Cede). I think there are some people that play a DS Revan and then a LS Exile to clean up the mess that Revan made.

 

But if the Exile is set to DS, then the galaxy will again, be screwed. If the Jedi Padawan goes DS, he would be working with the True Sith, or attempting to destroy them to further his power. Somehow, the Dark Side will win and take over the Galaxy. This is okay...

 

But if the Jedi Padawan goes LS, he'll basically support the "Dark" Jedi Order. So, the True Sith is destroyed, and the Jedi Padawan gets rewarded...which means that the "Dark" Jedi Order remains.

 

What's worse? Having a group of evil force-users now contorlling the galaxy via the Republic (the Republic, after all, is a shell protecting the Jedi)...or having a group of evil force-users contorlling the galaxy?

 

Another idea would be to basically have the "Dark" Jedi Order actually be more Jolee-like (since they, after all, did embrace the Dark Side, and understand that sometimes, it's okay to use it, for the greater Good. ), while the "Light" Jedi Order would be very strict Light-Siders, like Vrook and Atris, as they have been so trusting of the Light Side that they won't want to devivate from it, they want to stay on it no matter what.

 

Hatred is quite common among the Sith, so hating and killing Sion and Nihilus and their ilk, and even Kreia, would in no way prevent the DS exile from being Sith.

 

And while I can agree with you that Sith classes don't matter at all, there is a very, VERY compelling reason why the DS exile would be Sith - the DS exile ends up being the new master of the Trayus Academy. You don't get to be much more Sith than that...

 

True, he is Sith. But does he consider himself Sith? And do the Republic know it? Preception is 9/10 of reality.

[The Architect]

Hatred is quite common among the Sith, so hating and killing Sion and Nihilus and their ilk, and even Kreia, would in no way prevent the DS exile from being Sith.

 

True. It doesn’t prevent the Exile from being a Sith.

 

But my DS Exile isn’t a Sith. Why?

 

My DS Exile: “Who are these jerks that are trying to kill me?”

 

Answer: “They’re Sith.”

 

My DS Exile: “*Beep* them!”

 

Umm…not exactly a great explanation is it? My DS Exile hates the Sith. He/she is put off by them, because they tried to kill him/her.

 

Still, as you said, hatred and killing are common traits among the Sith, so DS Exile could be a Sith. Mine isn’t though.

 

Still, even if my DS Exile is forced as a “Sith Lord” in KotOR III, I’m okay with that.

 

I should still be allowed to decide the gender of my Exile, and what his/her alignment was in TSL, and his/her appearance if necessary, but the Exile is only my character in TSL, not before or after it.

 

And while I can agree with you that Sith classes don't matter at all, there is a very, VERY compelling reason why the DS exile would be Sith - the DS exile ends up being the new master of the Trayus Academy. You don't get to be much more Sith than that...

 

Ah, this is just made up in my head, but my DS Exile leaves Malachor V straight after he/she kills Kreia and leaves Visas to run the Trayus Academy. Although a different story may apply to others.

 

Another thing you forget is that according to Disciple, the Jedi are useful as a symbol. If ANYONE claimed to be the Jedi, I'm sure all the Republic commanders would be pandering to that Jedi to come in and serve the Republic (not noticing them to be Dark Siders). They're that desperate for a symbol.

 

In fact, I think they’d love Jedi with DS traits. Think about it, the Republic liked Jedi like Revan and Malak in the Mandalorian Wars. They were not too fond of those who just “sat back and spouted garbage” in the Mandalorian Wars however.

 

It would be interesting, but another flaw immeadily result itself: Isn't the galaxy basically screwed if the Galaxy is set to DS?

 

If Revan is set to DS, at least the Sith Empire is destroyed, so it's not as if he had much effect (other than Bastila being DSed, and Carth being replaced by Cede). I think there are some people that play a DS Revan and then a LS Exile to clean up the mess that Revan made.

 

But if the Exile is set to DS, then the galaxy will again, be screwed. If the Jedi Padawan goes DS, he would be working with the True Sith, or attempting to destroy them to further his power. Somehow, the Dark Side will win and take over the Galaxy. This is okay...

 

Yes, it is.

 

But if the Jedi Padawan goes LS, he'll basically support the "Dark" Jedi Order. So, the True Sith is destroyed, and the Jedi Padawan gets rewarded...which means that the "Dark" Jedi Order remains.

 

What's worse? Having a group of evil force-users now contorlling the galaxy via the Republic (the Republic, after all, is a shell protecting the Jedi)...or having a group of evil force-users contorlling the galaxy?

 

Another idea would be to basically have the "Dark" Jedi Order actually be more Jolee-like (since they, after all, did embrace the Dark Side, and understand that sometimes, it's okay to use it, for the greater Good. ), while the "Light" Jedi Order would be very strict Light-Siders, like Vrook and Atris, as they have been so trusting of the Light Side that they won't want to devivate from it, they want to stay on it no matter what.

 

Actually, I don't mind that idea at all.

 

Another idea (this is biased towards the LS though), is that during their time with DS Exile, his/her companions were nothing but slaves of his/hers with no will of their own.

 

Without the presence of DS Exile for a year (maybe more or so), that influence the Exile had over them has worn off, and his/her companions have a will of their own again. They become LS (or neutral, Jolee like) and form a new Jedi Order that is Zez-Kai Ell/Jolee like, and not strict Atris/Vrook like. So it’s pretty much just your idea. There is no “Dark” Jedi Order. It’s more of a Grey Jedi Order, for DS Exile’s companions.

 

True, he is Sith. But does he consider himself Sith? And do the Republic know it? Preception is 9/10 of reality.

 

My DS Exile doesn’t consider himself/herself a Sith. My DS Exile hates the Sith. And yeah, the Republic may not know that the Exile is DS. Just like they didn’t know that Palpatine was DS.

[SilentScope001]

My DS Exile doesn’t consider himself/herself a Sith. My DS Exile hates the Sith. And yeah, the Republic may not know that the Exile is DS. Just like they didn’t know that Palpatine was DS.

 

True. I just I consider all Dark Side users, like Dark Jedi as Sith, even though techincally they aren't. I actually do consider my Exile to take up the title of Sith Lord, but my Exile is obivously different from your Exile.

 

Horray for the developers letting us create our own characters!

 

EDIT: Examing the futures of the characters if Exile turns to the Dark Side...

 

Atton: "Atton shall keep his murderer's heart. Many deaths shall he cause in the dark corners of the galaxy, always hunting, always finding prey. He shall grow hungry in a galaxy where they are few Jedi, and it will eventually consumes him, but I shall say no more."

 

This suggest that Atton becomes a bit more bloodthirsty, consumed by hunger for more Jedi, which sort of implies that prehaps Atton might become the next Darth Sion, and also implies that a new Sith Order could erupt. Then again, this could refer to the fact that Atton hates Force-Users, and his hunger for killing off Force-Users (Sith) will consume him, if Atton joins a new Dark Jedi Order. There is also other hope for the Grey/Dark Jedi Order idea...

 

Handmadien: "She will seek to forget this place and turn herself fully to battle. When once she dreamt of the Jedi, she will put aside thoes dreams. The Jedi will be the one she will judge, and if she can, punish for being human." This suggests Handmadien is going down the same path as Atris, and provides evidence for the Grey/Dark Jedi Order idea.

 

Visas: "She will put Kattar in the wreckage of the past, and will turn towards the path that you have set before her." She's your loyal slave.

 

Bao-Dur: "I do not know"

 

Mira: She's going to die on Ord Mantell battling bounty hunters. Wheter she will die in K3, before K3, or after K3, we do not know.

 

Disciple: Haven't played as him, hope to do so soon and turn him to the Dark Side.

 

Again, the procpheries of Kreia are unrealiable, and doesn't tell us much, but they do indicate...well, something. I'm sure we'll understand exactly what Kreia is saying when we actually see all the Dark Sided party members in K3.

[Jediphile]

EDIT: Examing the futures of the characters if Exile turns to the Dark Side...

 

Atton: "Atton shall keep his murderer's heart. Many deaths shall he cause in the dark corners of the galaxy, always hunting, always finding prey. He shall grow hungry in a galaxy where they are few Jedi, and it will eventually consumes him, but I shall say no more."

 

Actually, I had two incarnations of Atton in my own plot depending on the exile's alignment. For LS exile, Atton would be teaching mental resistance to the emerging jedi order on Coruscant. For DS exile, Atton would lead a group of Sith assassins against diplomats and jedi youngling refugees on Alderaan, and you would have to kill him as a part of the story.

 

Handmadien: "She will seek to forget this place and turn herself fully to battle. When once she dreamt of the Jedi, she will put aside thoes dreams. The Jedi will be the one she will judge, and if she can, punish for being human." This suggests Handmadien is going down the same path as Atris, and provides evidence for the Grey/Dark Jedi Order idea.

 

I find Brianna difficult to speculate about, since her existence is so questionable in canon, where she did not join the exile's companions. If the exile is female in the game, then you only ever meet her the first time you enter the Telos academy. After that she never appears again. It is even her sisters who bring Kreia to Atris, not Brianna, and you can't find her upon returning to the academy. I fear Atris killed her with her sisters. Since that casts doubt on Brianna's existence, canon or otherwise, I doubt we'll see her again.

 

Visas: "She will put Kattar in the wreckage of the past, and will turn towards the path that you have set before her." She's your loyal slave.

 

That is a possibility, but don't forget that sacrificing Visas in the fight against Nihilus is also a very real possibility, particularly to a DS exile. So I don't think Visas should appear in K3 if the exile is DS.

 

Bao-Dur: "I do not know"

 

Bao-Dur is a big question mark all right. There are rumors he was original to have died on M4-78 before the planet was cut, and his holographic recording to remote could be seen as underscoring that. He is also completely absent from the cut content of Malachor V, which is odd given that returning must be as disturbing to him as it is to the exile. Indeed, their common experiences at Malachor V is THE defining relationship that brings Bao-Dur closer to the exile than any other character (and is probably why the exile can sense his mind while Kreia cannot).

 

Mira: She's going to die on Ord Mantell battling bounty hunters. Wheter she will die in K3, before K3, or after K3, we do not know.

 

Actually, I feel about Mira the same way I do about Visas. Not only can she die in TSL (by losing the last fight to Hanharr), but she is also a LS character. Should she really appear in the game if the exile is DS? Personally I don't think so. The exile could have either Mira or Hanharr among his companions, and Hanharr was the DS option.

 

Disciple: Haven't played as him, hope to do so soon and turn him to the Dark Side.

 

Kreia's prediction about DS disciple: "If he leaves this place, he will leave all that is Jedi behind him at last. A heart can only handle so many betrayals before turning away entirely.He will become a Senator on one of the Mid-Rim worlds, and devote himself to the people there. He will be a wise, steady ruler - and he will not call upon the Force again. But his rule will grow to be a cold one, and he will find that the code of the galaxy pales in comparison to the failures of the code of the Jedi. He cannot help but love you, in his way. It is a pure, ideal love he holds, strengthened by your presence and your actions. If he leaves this place, he will leave the galaxy behind him. He will sit upon the new Council, reluctantly, as all good men do, and he will not forget the Jedi who had lost the Force, yet showed him the way to reclaim it. After that, I do not know."

 

So it would seem to me that a dark jedi disciple in KotOR3 is not possible.

 

Again, the procpheries of Kreia are unrealiable, and doesn't tell us much, but they do indicate...well, something. I'm sure we'll understand exactly what Kreia is saying when we actually see all the Dark Sided party members in K3.

 

If we see them that is. Personally I doubt it. Some of them would create problems for the plot. Some, like Mira and Visas, can just be assumed to have already died in TSL.

[SilentScope001]

If we see them that is. Personally I doubt it. Some of them would create problems for the plot. Some, like Mira and Visas, can just be assumed to have already died in TSL.

 

In any case, then the predictions then serve as a way of knowing what happened to our characters anyway if they don't appear in K3 (but still live in K2), not as fun as seeing them in person, but still pretty nice. A nice feature considering that many of us still wonder what happened to Mission Vao, Zalaabar, Jhunai, and Jolee Bindo. Yes, we can easily imagine what happens there, but our imagination has limits. Besides, it is possible that we can interpert the propcerheies however we so desire.

 

Man, I'm sure fan fic writers would have fun with Disciple as a Machivellican politican.

 

EDIT: Maybe it would be best if at most two to three core characters come back, to establih continuity, but no much more. Atton and Bao-Dur (retconning Atton's hatred of Jedi to hatred of Sith)? You can also declare Visas' death to be uncanon LS and DS, just like the developers declared Bastila's murder not to occur for a Male Revan (since Revan loved her).

 

EDIT2: Prehaps the main reason why I want at least some of the DS Exile's party members forming a new Jedi Order (light, dark, or grey) is because Kreia said that one of the purposes of DS Exile is to gather the Lost Jedi. "They are the lost Jedi you know, the true Jedi, upon which the future will be built. They simply needed a leader and a teacher." This is said for both LS and DS Exiles, suggesting that the Exile's actions lead to his party members creating a Jedi Order...Having none of the Exile's party members join up with the Jedi Order does sort of cheapens Kreia's little statement about the party members.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, we know that HK and T3 HAVE TO BE in k3 as party member. Not sure about the rest but seriously it is best to let them old folks RIP.

 

As for Mission Vao, Zalaabar, Jhunai, and Jolee Bindo. It is best to keep the long term stories about them to our imagination. But from what we see, Juhani would probably be back with her girlfriend with the jedis and Jolee would probably still being "blown around by the force like a leaf in the wind" THough he might not just stay w2ith the wookiees but move around more. Mission and Zalbar... Well Zal would be back with his clan sooner or later, though Mission would start her adventures ... I mean, girls like Mission, you don't expact to see her ending up as a Dancer.