Mike Windu Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Hahah. Definitely agree with Niner there. CoTBP is definitely the best of the trilogy. The other two were indeed too long and convoluted to be truly enjoyable. The two movies introduce things that go and end so quickly that you don't bother to care about them at all..the films are indeed too long, and lack proper pacing and editing. The first 45 minutes of DMC could have been cut, for example. Will's plotline with his father was entirely unimportant and an unwelcome, unriveting distraction in my eyes. Davy Jones, who started off decently and played excellently by Bill Nighy, was reduced to a pawn to Beckett. Who the hell is Beckett? He's not even an interesting character. Barbossa coming back was a high point: the explanation for his revival was ****. The writing for the last two was also atrocious in comparison to the first. It was as if the writers ran out of ideas for explaining origins and picked up Edith Hamilton's Mythology, perused until they found a suitable sea goddess, and stuck her into the plot. Oh wait, they did. The fighting in the last two movies was also boring. The big wheel fight from DMC was a little amusing at first but went on for far too long. I was more entertained by Elizabeth and Pintel and Ragetti fighting the Dutchman's crew. The fighting in ATW was also blah. The opening fight as more riveting than the final fight. First off, if you promote the movie as the pirate world's last stand, then there bloody well better be a last stand. I don't know if you guys saw the same movie I saw, but this is what happened: Elizabeth becomes William Wallace and rouses the pirates. Everyone is excited. The Black Pearl and Dutchman fight. Everyone else in the freaking pirate army and imperial navy look on. ---- And Jack Sparrow is no longer cool or fun or witty. A once complex character has fallen into the rut of rum and money, namely from making the last two movies. I read a character analysis of Jack Sparrow after the first PotC, and did one of my own. Jack Sparrow was a character that was amazingly bright. A pirate but an altruistic pirate, with mannerisms akin to the stumbling grace of drunken boxing. Misleading but knowledgeable. The last two movies killed that. Let's go back to "Mullroy: What's your purpose in Port Royal, Mr. Smith? Murtogg: Yeah, and no lies. Jack Sparrow: Well, then, I confess, it is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out. Murtogg: I said no lies. Mullroy: I think he's telling the truth. Murtogg: If he were telling the truth, he wouldn't have told us. Jack Sparrow: Unless, of course, he knew you wouldn't believe the truth even if he told it to you. " and Hallucination: I don't get what you mean by Savez? as much as I'm ragging on DMC and AWE.. I'll buy the last movie and watch it. But the first is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanius Anglesmith Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I must say that I completely disagree. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to not know what the end will be halfway into the movie, which is what happened with CotBP. Complex as it may be, the plot of DMC and AWE was more enjoyable and interesting than CotBP. The first 45 minutes of DMC could have been cut, for example. That whole sequence was to show that the world was closing in on Jack. He wasn't safe at sea, and he wasn't safe on land. I'm pretty sure you'll hear the writers say that in the audio commentary. Barbossa coming back was a high point: the explanation for his revival was ****. I was originally a little disappointed with this as well, but once I thought about it, I realized, what is there to explain? I mean, Calypso is the frickin goddess of the sea, and she ought to be able to bring back anyone she wants. First off, if you promote the movie as the pirate world's last stand, then there bloody well better be a last stand. Hypothetical situation: Ok, there's a massive maelstrom out in the middle of the ocean. The pirates and the EITC bring out all there ships to get within firing range, but suddenly, they all find themselves being dragged into this whirlpool. All 100 some-odd ships crash into each other, and crazy mayhem like hell has never seen is unleashed.[/hypothetical situation] Well that wouldn't make much sense, would it? So the leading ship of each side goes in and battles it out, hoping that this storm will somewhat subside by the time they've finished cutting each other up, and the major battle can begin. But what wasn't expected was, the Dutchman would lose it's captain, only to be replaced by someone on the pirate's side. Since it's pretty much been established that the Dutchman is all-powerful and can't be beat (unless of course, it's unable to be piloted, which is what happened for it to originally be taken down into the maelstrom), whichever side the Dutchman is on will win. So the Dutchman joins the pirates, blasts the hell out of the EITC flagship, and is on it's way to take down the rest. The EITC ships realize that they don't stand a chance and run away. And IMO, Jack is no less cool, fun, or witty than he was in the CotBP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I mean, Calypso is the frickin goddess of the sea, and she ought to be able to bring back anyone she wants. Which is a bloody copout/Deux ex machina for the writers. Let's use a powerful goddess to explain things away! Brilliant strategy. Also keep in mind that there is no mention of Calypso throughout all of DMC. That whole sequence was to show that the world was closing in on Jack. He wasn't safe at sea, and he wasn't safe on land. I'm pretty sure you'll hear the writers say that in the audio commentary. Never mind what the writers say. It's a pointless scenario to scrounge a few laughs here and there. To that extent it succeeded but it was still unnecessary. Hypothetical situation: Ok, there's a massive maelstrom out in the middle of the ocean. The pirates and the EITC bring out all there ships to get within firing range, but suddenly, they all find themselves being dragged into this whirlpool. All 100 some-odd ships crash into each other, and crazy mayhem like hell has never seen is unleashed.[/hypothetical situation] Hypothetical situation: They don't have the bloody maelstrom in the first place because Calypso is bloody useless and didn't do anything but turn into crabs and create a maelstrom for an "epic" final battle and then leave. The pirates then fight the amazing fight they were supposed to fight and the movie redeems itself an extra 2 full points out of 10. Which would put it at a low 8. plotlines still fall the same way and we save ourselves the "oooh I wonder what absurd setting we can create to fight in and still make it boring" phase that Jerry Bruckheimer and whoeve the hell directed this seem to like so much. Oh and, one can only hope the god awful particle scene with Beckett is erased as well. edit - Though your hypothetical situation would also be good for the movie in terms of chaos and fun produced. Do I want to see tons of ships battling in and out of a maelstrom? You bet your sweet *** I do. Sure as hell beats the drawn out fighting between the Pearl and Dutchman. And the less than captivating escapades of young Mr. Turner and his bonny lass. Well that wouldn't make much sense, would it? So the leading ship of each side goes in and battles it out, hoping that this storm will somewhat subside by the time they've finished cutting each other up, and the major battle can begin. Not much in the past two movies does make a great amount of sense. I kept hoping that there would at least be a battle after the maelstrom episode (which is still in my opinion, annoying and boring, and unfitting for an ending battle of what should have been an amazing trilogy) Instead, I get two ships rounding Beckett's ship and blasting it into boring bits. I must say that I completely disagree. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to not know what the end will be halfway into the movie, which is what happened with CotBP. Complex as it may be, the plot of DMC and AWE was more enjoyable and interesting than CotBP. Can you tell me, perchance, what plot was in DMC/AWE? I didn't notice. Perhaps it was under the crap that was Jack Sparrow overkill, useless characters, deus ex machinas, melodramatic love stories, yawn inducing father-son relationships (and believe me, I love father-son relationships in movies. I think they're very touching because of the relationship I have with my father), poor writing save for a few bright spots, poor editing, poor pacing, and an overabundance of ultimate nothingness? Yes, there can be too much Jack Sparrow. And there was. I'm sorry, I guess I was looking for substance over style. I give the first PotC an 8, and the other two 6s. I know this part of my review sounds silly, but the color change in the latter two trilogies affected it, I believe. We went from a bright, bold red to a dark, tragic green. The movie lost much of its fun from the transition from the red of Curse of the Black Pearl to the Green aura of Dead Man's Chest. In that green it got too epic for it's own good. Perhaps in that sense, too pompous as well. So metaphorically, I guess what I'm trying to say is: the green is money. If CotBP was an indie movie, then it would call the latter two sellouts. Cause that's what they are to me: entertaining but ultimately cotton candy, short and sweet, in comparison to the everlasting gobstopper that I call CotBP. And hell, CotBP has flaws, but I'd take it any day over the other two movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spitfire Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I must say that I completely disagree. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to not know what the end will be halfway into the movie, which is what happened with CotBP. Complex as it may be, the plot of DMC and AWE was more enjoyable and interesting than CotBP. snipped for brevity I agree with everything you said. And Mike Windu, how epic the final battle was depends on perspective. No movie can please 100% of an audience. I am sure that the vast majority of people found the last battle to be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I saw the movie for the sixth time yesterday Jeez... I've seen it 3 times, and hope to see it a 4th this week. That movie is truly pimp.... you both obviously enjoy an excess of spare time, my good fellows..... IMHO, they're the 3 best movies I've ever seen.... *Looks at banner that says "Star Wars" at the top of screen....* I'm sure in 2037 the "Pirates" forum will be kickin it just like here, 30 years on bollocks. kids movies with that ridiculous Bruckheimer "Amazing Race" music.. Comparing them to the SW original trilogy especially, is laughable... (say what you want about PT) POTC: cultural pehnomenon it is not... pioneering film-making technology it hasnt.... (heck...who did the sfx in POTC....!!) mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 And Mike Windu, how epic the final battle was depends on perspective. No movie can please 100% of an audience. I am sure that the vast majority of people found the last battle to be epic. I was not aware that my review was solely my perspective on the disappointing nature of this trilogy. I am sure that the vast majority of people are dunderheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Obi-Wan Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 Overall, I enjoyed the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy. I wouldn't call it my favourite movies though. Star Wars and Lord of the Rings easily are better than Pirates of the Caribbean. Overall, my favourite of the three movies would probably still have to be the final installment and I like CotBP and DMC equally (judging through entertainment value). If we are discussing the idea of how well the movies were made (which seems we are). I'd say CotBP was the best. But, all the movies could have used a bit of improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Ah, we know that. It just doesn't have the leading vision of another classic *cough, LOTR, SW, cough* and that's the only problem. Still, I'll enjoy the next (even if I think they should have wrapped it up at three). Unless they don't do something to freshen up Jacks character, as he is petering out. Then Hollywood will get razed by an angry mob. Which, in it's own entertainment value, would make up for the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanius Anglesmith Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 you both obviously enjoy an excess of spare time, my good fellows..... Or maybe I've organized my activities well. I'm sure in 2037 the "Pirates" forum will be kickin it just like here, 30 years on I don't really care what other people think about it. If I can watch a movie over and over again and never get tired of it, then I count it as a great movie. In all honesty, I still like the whole idea of Star Wars better than PotC, but PotC has become more enjoyable to watch for me. Most likely because of the utter incomparability between the acting (PT), and the special effects and action (OT). Whether Pirates forums are still active 30 years from now doesn't matter to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spitfire Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Lol, it was the best movie I have ever seen. I may be sounding like a n00b, but I must admit it was quite good. Maybe I am too immature not to like it, I don't know. And I agree with Eager Weasel. I can watch the movies - particularly CotBP and At World's End thousands of times and it stays just as good. Htat is what makes a great movie. For me, it matches Lord of the Rings and Star Wars in greatness. People say that too much is happening at the same time, but for me that means that it is good, as it keeps the story revolving, and bumping up and down through twists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 And IMO, Jack is no less cool, fun, or witty than he was in the CotBP. Not much, but he uses many of the exact same gags, tricks stunts and even lines. That makes him just a bit too predictable for a Johnny Depp pirate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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