blu-ray v. HDDVD

[Jeff]

Which next-gen video format do you think will succeed?

[Davinq]

I'm happy with normal DVDs thanks.

[Thrik]

I don't really support any per se, but I'm putting my money on Blu-Ray coming out on top due to its backers, its relatively intriguing name, and also its superior storage capacity.

[Commander Obi-Wan]

I like just the plain ol' DVDs, but I'm kinda of leaning towards HD-DVDs, but Blu-Ray is also looking quite strong.

[swphreak]

I like my DVDs. They're starting to get cheaper, and I already have DVD Players

 

I'm waiting til one or the other croaks before I even pick a side, and even then, it'll be awhile before the price drops. Besides, I don't even have a HDTV, so the new formats would be pointless. Am I the only one who doesn't notice a difference between HD and standard def?

[Jeff]

I'm waiting til one or the other croaks before I even pick a side, and even then, it'll be awhile before the price drops. Besides, I don't even have a HDTV, so the new formats would be pointless. Am I the only one who doesn't notice a difference between HD and standard def?

I saw a comparison video that had half the screen showing dvd quality and the other half showing blu-ray quality on a HD-tv at circuit city once. There was a very noticeable difference in the sharpness of the picture.

[Joshi]

Blu-ray has a greater potential capacity, which is basically what these things are going for anyway, so I'm hoping that one will win out (despite HD-DVD being cheaper), but it's really all about who has the better marketing team.

 

EDIT

 

I should probably just point out to all you "I prefer DVD's anyway" people, unfortunately, because of the introduction of these new high capacity formats, in a few years time DVD's are going to go the way of the VHS. It sucks really, especially for those of us with fairly large DVD collections (I'm pushing on 500 myself and God knows, I won't be attempting to replace any of them any time soon), but it'll happen.

[Thrik]

Yeah, I don't think the "I like DVDs" comments are really valid as they are inevitably going to just stop being circulated within years as Joshi said. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD offer pretty much the same leap forward that VHS to CDs offered, and CDs to DVDs; with them holding over 30GB each, that's a lot of data capacity.

 

As for standard definition and high definition, if you can't see the difference then you absolutely must be using a non-HD television or perhaps just a small television. Imagine opening a video file on your computer that fills about a quarter of the screen, then imagine opening one that's the size of the whole screen; clearly, the larger one is going to look infinitely better in full-screen on larger monitors than the smaller one. However, if you were to play them both on a small monitor you'd likely notice little difference.

 

There's also the fact that LCD and Plasma televisions have much sharper images than unavoidably blurry CRTs, which means that suddenly any flaws in the standard-definition quality are suddenly really obvious. For a quick example, try opening a small video file on your computer and then making it full-screen; that's pretty much what happens to a standard-definition video when displayed on a HD screen, due to its much higher resolution than a traditional TV.

 

Despite all the marketing bullpoo, all HD content is is a less-shrunken video file -- the quality improvement speaks for itself. What confuses people is needing different TVs and stuff, and them only supporting certain resolutions ("780i, 780p, 1080i, 1080p?!"), etc.

[Joshi]

I believe there are players on the market at the moment that can play DVD, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, (all of which use different lasers, which is why such integration is hard to do and thus it will be more expensive), so your old DVD's won't be obsolete, but as Thrik said, in a few years, distributors will stop making them (much like many media shops such as HMV, Virgin or the media shop of your choice in your area who no longer sell VHS) and shops will stop selling them so you'll be forced to upgrade.

 

The nice thing about BluRay is that 30Gb's is the standard size, but with dual layer, as well as double sided discs, I think it's been theorized to be able to reach something like 80GB's or more. HD-DVD can do similar, but not quite as high capacity, but then the Discs and Players (and recorders) will be cheaper.

 

This links in to what Thrik said about high-def. Basically, even with the current capacity of a standard DVD, the movie needs a basic form of compression (and a very decent CPU). But with a higher capacity on the disc, you have more room to have higher resolution picture (and with 30 frames a second, that will take up a lot of room for a decent 2 hour movie) and much better clearer sound, with the possibility of extra channels if you were so inclined to have any more than 7 speakers in your room, (what better reason to never visit the cinema again when movie execs are in talks about Movies coming out in the cinema and on DVD/Blu-ray/HD-DVD simultaneously)

 

Even still, at the moment, they're way too expensive for most people to be thinking about on a large scale, only very well off mediaphiles will be interested (or someone who's stupid with money, one might argue there's no difference, I can certainly see a venn diagram emerging), but likely, in a few years the price will plummet as it did with the DVD player, the first one I ever bought being around £160 (mind you, it was a pretty decent player, but a player it was only) and the latest one I've bought running in around £30 (and that was over two years ago). HD-DVD players and Blu-Ray players will be sure to follow suite.

[Thrik]

Of course if you are going to buy a Blu-Ray player at this point, you'd probably be best off going with a PlayStation 3 as you get quite a lot extra for about two-thirds of the price. Not sure how it technically compares with a dedicated Blu-Ray player, but it can't be far off.

[Joshi]

Heh, very true. not only will you be getting a Blu-Ray player, you'll be getting a whole new generation of computer chips and (if some decent developer sees fit) some really nice looking games to keep the processors busy.

 

Buy a Hi-Def TV, a decent speaker set up, nice relaxing chair, your choice of food and drink, a mini fridge... oh dear, my movie obsession is kicking in again.

[Negative Sun]

I just hope they get rid of that ridiculous region format, the PS2 was really bad when it came to that, mine would only accept region 2 DVDs and not even all of them...I'm leaning more towards HD-DVDs now (Even though Blu-Ray sounds cooler), so that's where my vote went to, whether it's gonna win the HD format battle, I'm not too sure...I think a lot of it depends on how well the PS3 will do, so we'll have to wait and see.

 

On the other hand, buying either right now might give you an edge, because if you have items of the losing format, it might be worth a lot of money after a few decades in you attic

[Joshi]

I doubt it, Beta-max videos aren't exactly worth a lot these days, and they were superior to VHS. I don't see the losing format here being any different.

 

As for region codes, those were put in place so the movie industry could release DVD's at different times in different regions and it'd be more difficult for someone to, say, import a DVD from The States and watch it on their DVD player at home, before it was officially released there (if you're watching a movie at home while it's out in the cinema, they're losing vast amounts of money). They had almost the exact same process in place for Videos (PAL and NTSC).

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this stayed in place for Blu-ray/HD-DVD, even though more DVD's these days are being released around the world simultaneously (due to simultaneous cinema releases) getting them shipped from the States is actually cheaper than buying them in, say, the UK (UK DVD's tend to retail at roughly twice the value of US DVD's, largely because of currency conversion, and largely because we have a stupidly expensive economy, but that's all politics, fact is, even with shipping you're making a saving).

 

I'd say region codes are here to stay.

[swphreak]

The DVDs may go away, but seeing as how many there are out there, I don't expect them to disappear within a year or two. Amazon lists HD-DVD/Blu-Ray discs at $35 and up, while I can get DVDs for about $20 or less. The main selling point for me is obviously price. Maybe in a few years, when one of the formats go the way of the LaserDisc, and reigns supreme, I'll start buying. Til then, I'll stick with DVDs. The first DVD player I bought cost me about 70 bucks, and it plays everything (DVD, VCD, MP3, ect).

[Joshi]

No, a year or two is way too short a time, both hi-def formats have only really been available for a few months at the moment, but think of how long it took for DVD's to replace VHS and you'll have yourself a decent time frame ($35 for a DVD was pretty much a standard price back when they were first introduced).

 

Like I said, I'm not looking to buy any until both the movies and the players come way down in price. At the moment I'm personally backing Blu-Ray for the reasons I stated above as well as the fact that it's been developed by Sony, and frankly, they need a win after the whole Betamax fiasco.

 

EDIT

Oh ello? Blu ray has new Region Codes if anyones interested. HD DVD has no such region coding at the moment.

[Negative Sun]

I doubt it, Beta-max videos aren't exactly worth a lot these days, and they were superior to VHS. I don't see the losing format here being any different.

 

As for region codes, those were put in place so the movie industry could release DVD's at different times in different regions and it'd be more difficult for someone to, say, import a DVD from The States and watch it on their DVD player at home, before it was officially released there (if you're watching a movie at home while it's out in the cinema, they're losing vast amounts of money). They had almost the exact same process in place for Videos (PAL and NTSC).

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this stayed in place for Blu-ray/HD-DVD, even though more DVD's these days are being released around the world simultaneously (due to simultaneous cinema releases) getting them shipped from the States is actually cheaper than buying them in, say, the UK (UK DVD's tend to retail at roughly twice the value of US DVD's, largely because of currency conversion, and largely because we have a stupidly expensive economy, but that's all politics, fact is, even with shipping you're making a saving).

 

I'd say region codes are here to stay.

I know why region codes are around, I just don't like them...

[Joshi]

You said you hoped they'd get rid of region codes. I was just explaining why they wouldn't.

[Negative Sun]

I also hope I'm gonna get rich soon, I can explain why that ain't gonna happen either

[Joshi]

That's not a hope, that's a wish. Hope suggests it might happen, like "I hope it doesn't rain tomorrow" whereas a wish would be something like "I wish i won the lottery."

 

I simply mistook your claim for the former.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

As of now, I like my DVDs just the way they are. Once they all finally die, I'll probably start looking in to Blu-ray. I doubt I'll be replacing every one of them, but I'll give it a whirl.

 

And Blu-ray sounds cooler and is much easier to say than HD-DVD.

[Negative Sun]

That's not a hope, that's a wish. Hope suggests it might happen, like "I hope it doesn't rain tomorrow" whereas a wish would be something like "I wish i won the lottery."

 

I simply mistook your claim for the former.

It's ok, I just didn't want you to think I was some dumb*** who didn't know what region formats were for

[Thrik]

It's worth bearing in mind that your older films and such aren't particularly relevant; you can make your own call about whether or not you'll replace your favourites for the new high-definition versions (which I'm sure will eventually be replaced by even higher definition versions).

 

The real relevance of this discussion is of course about the future. They're not going to keep making games on DVDs indefinitely; I don't about the US, but here in the UK it's almost impossible to find a new game that's on CDs rather than a DVD, and it's been like this for at least two years.

 

The same will eventually become true of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, at which point you need to decide: do you pay a load for both players so you can enjoy all games/films on the market, or do you stick with one and miss out? And since the prices of the players (and discs) are dictated by supply and demand, the early adopters of the technology that ultimately loses (and paid a load for it) will get burnt.

 

It's a ****ty situation, but it happened before with the whole VHS/Betamax thing. Whatever the case, some technology is going to become dominant and unless an affordable player that can read them all comes out (since a Blu-Ray player is £600+, unlikely) we're going to have the make the choice at some point whether we care about the quality/capacity or not.

 

That or just go without new films and games.

[Negative Sun]

It's worth bearing in mind that your older films and such aren't particularly relevant; you can make your own call about whether or not you'll replace your favourites for the new high-definition versions (which I'm sure will eventually be replaced by even higher definition versions).

 

The real relevance of this discussion is of course about the future. They're not going to keep making games on DVDs indefinitely; I don't about the US, but here in the UK it's almost impossible to find a new game that's on CDs rather than a DVD, and it's been like this for at least two years.

 

The same will eventually become true of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, at which point you need to decide: do you pay a load for both players so you can enjoy all games/films on the market, or do you stick with one and miss out? And since the prices of the players (and discs) are dictated by supply and demand, the early adopters of the technology that ultimately loses (and paid a load for it) will get burnt.

 

It's a ****ty situation, but it happened before with the whole VHS/Betamax thing. Whatever the case, some technology is going to become dominant and unless an affordable player that can read them all comes out (since a Blu-Ray player is £600+, unlikely) we're going to have the make the choice at some point whether we care about the quality/capacity or not.

 

That or just go without new films and games.

Surely the industry will realize that having two such formats battling it out for a long time is just gonna drive customers away...hopefully, one of two things will happpen: the two will compromise and just put both formats together, which would be beneficial to all, or one will die a gruesome death, because no one is going to want two HD versions of the same movie lying around...

[Commander Obi-Wan]

Am I the only one who doesn't notice a difference between HD and standard def?

 

I have a High-def TV with standard cable. It's kinda of fuzzy. So, when I played my Wii on it, it was fuzzy, too. Once I bought the HD component cable for it, the picture cleared up a bit. But, when I purchased the TV they showed what it would look like with HD and without. It's much more clearer and sharper with the HD.

 

Though, I might just get an HDMI cable for the time being.

[Joshi]

A company (Warner Home Video) has actually come up with a hybrid of both (for just such an occasion as when a distributor wants to cater to both markets without coming up with seperate discs). Click

 

It works because the data layer for a blu-ray disc is closer to the surface of the disc then the data of a HD-DVD disc (0.1mm and 0.6mm respectively). I can't remember the name of the company, but what they've done is basically put the blu-ray data onto a layer that works like a two way mirror. It's reflective enough that the laser of a blu-ray player can access such data, but transparent enough that the different laser of a HD-DVD player can access the data beneath that, which will be the same information, but encoded to work with a HD-DVD player.

 

If more distributors dealt with their products like this (currently only Warner Home Video and Paramount support both formats) it would make things a lot easier for those of us that don't want to choose, and the format war would be won by whoever sold the most players instead of whoever sold the most discs.