Connection between Exile and Nihilus [Possible TSL spoiler]

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I guess it doesn't really make sense for the Exile to be DS at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the destruction of Malachor V forced all of Revan's Jedi to make a choice - join Revan as a DS Jedi or die. The Exile was the only Jedi to break away from those 2 options, as she chose to disconnect from the force altogether, right? That being the case, and this severance being as painful as described, it seems as if the Exile would literally do anything to avoid going to the DS. Why would she then later choose the DS, after going through so much to avoid it?

Remember that Revan tried to kill her/him at Malachor V. The Mass Shadow Generator was supposed to kill everyone on it's effect radius, she wouldn't ally him/herself with her/him would-be killer. He/she was forced into disconnecting from the Force in order to survive.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Remember that Revan tried to kill her/him at Malachor V. The Mass Shadow Generator was supposed to kill everyone on it's effect radius, she wouldn't ally him/herself with her/him would-be killer. He/she was forced into disconnecting from the Force in order to survive.

That's slightly different than I interpreted it, although I am probably wrong since I've only had one play-through. The way I interpreted it was that the events that took place at Malachor V forced all of Revan's followers, weak or strong, to either fully take Revan's side as DS or die. The Exile was the only Jedi that did not choose one of those alternatives; she chose to disconnect from the force altogether.

 

EDIT: After reading my response, I think I failed to sufficiently describe how I viewed it. Basically Revan attempted to kill all of the Jedi following him that wouldn't turn DS, and the Mass Shadow Generator destroying Malachor V was the way to do it. The would it created forced the Jedi to choose death or DS with Revan, and the Exile was the only Jedi to choose neither.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

EDIT: After reading my response, I think I failed to sufficiently describe how I viewed it. Basically Revan attempted to kill all of the Jedi following him that wouldn't turn DS, and the Mass Shadow Generator destroying Malachor V was the way to do it. The would it created forced the Jedi to choose death or DS with Revan, and the Exile was the only Jedi to choose neither.

Actually, he intended to kill everyone at Malachor. Republic or Mandalorian. The task-force to Malachor was composed of officers, soldiers and Jedi as to which loyalty to Revan was on doubt. Revan wouldn't take his chances.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Actually, he intended to kill everyone at Malachor. Republic or Mandalorian. The task-force to Malachor was composed of officers, soldiers and Jedi as to which loyalty to Revan was on doubt. Revan wouldn't take his chances.

So the Exile ordered her own death? The Exile was the one who ordered the activation of the MSG when she realized that the Republic forces wouldn't arrive in time to hold off the Mandalorian fleet.

 

When the Exile decided to return to the Jedi Council for judgment and to explain her choice to leave to join Revan and Malak, Malak wanted to have the Exile killed but Revan said not to; he wanted the Council to realize they were wrong. So I'm not sure how Revan tried to kill the Exile.

 

Lastly, all of the remaining living Jedi went DS, even the Jedi not on Malachor. That, to me, means that the actions that took place on Malachor had more of an effect than just killing everyone there. The would it left in the force forced all of the remaining Jedi to choose DS or die. The Exile was the exception.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

So the Exile ordered her own death? The Exile was the one who ordered the activation of the MSG when she realized that the Republic forces wouldn't arrive in time to hold off the Mandalorian fleet.

He/she didn't knew that it would kill everything, obviously.

When the Exile decided to return to the Jedi Council for judgment and to explain her choice to leave to join Revan and Malak, Malak wanted to have the Exile killed but Revan said not to; he wanted the Council to realize they were wrong. So I'm not sure how Revan tried to kill the Exile.

I'm not sure I follow. Where did you take that from?

 

Lastly, all of the remaining living Jedi went DS, even the Jedi not on Malachor. That, to me, means that the actions that took place on Malachor had more of an effect than just killing everyone there. The would it left in the force forced all of the remaining Jedi to choose DS or die. The Exile was the exception.

Well, I posed the scenario. The Jedi that weren't at Malachor were trusted by Revan and would chose to stand by him/her, threats notwithstanding. It's perfectly feasible.

[Gurges-Ahter]

He/she didn't knew that it would kill everything, obviously.

I guess I'll just disagree. I thought she activated the MSG because he knew it would kill everything.

I'm not sure I follow. Where did you take that from?

Wookieepedia - see below. I know it's not always right, but I tend to believe it most of the time, and especially with this because I think it fits the story perfectly.

Overseeing the final battle at Malachor V, she gave the order to activate the Mass Shadow Generator when it was clear that the bulk of the Republic's forces, led by Revan, would not arrive in time to engage the massed Mandalorian armada. She watched silently from the bridge of her command ship as the generator crushed both the Republic and Mandalorian forces caught in its destructive wake. The ensuing death and destruction, particularly that of comrades she had come to know during the war, caused such a substantial wound in the Force that the shock would have killed the Exile had she not unconsciously sealed herself away from the Force, effectively severing her connection to it. Thereafter she was deafened to its call; incapable of sensing it through the interference caused by the Force echoes of the suffering that she had inflicted and been forced to witness.[6] The only Jedi under Revan able to turn away from the dark side after Malachor V, she was also the only Jedi to willingly return to Coruscant and face trial for her actions—and also to defend them. Though Malak wanted Revan to use his assassin droid HK-47 to eliminate the Exile, Revan wanted her to face the Council and show them the error of their teachings, and so let her leave.

[JCarter426]

From what I gather, only Revan knew that the MSG would destroy both fleets. The Exile activated the MSG because she was under orders to; there was no other reason. And Wookieepedia's account just says that the Exile saw both fleets destroyed, not that she knew that would happen ahead of time (also, I wouldn't trust Wookieepedia as far as I can throw it ).

 

As far as the Revan situation goes, I always thought that Revan assumed the Exile would be killed as well. After all, the idea was that all non-loyals would be killed by the MSG, and the Exile was not the most loyal of Revan's followers. Afterwards, his desire for the Exile to face the Council rather than death could easily be explained by guilt over taking the Force away from the Exile. As HK says, Revan pitied the Exile, both before and after the event.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Again I'm just going to have to disagree. The Wookieepedia version just makes more sense to me with the experience I had with the game, and with the storyline the game provided. Also, what else explains all of the remaining Revan followers going DS? Why else did none of the Jedi return to face the Council, aside from the Exile, after the Mandalorian War was over?

[JCarter426]

Because the Exile turned away from the Force. That's the whole point of the Exile.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Ok, so that explains the Exile... what explains the rest of the Jedi that all went DS?

[General LiWar]

They followed Revan and later Malak i would assume. Through KOTOR 1 Revan faces up with his past. The other jedi that went DS are not important to the Exile's story

 

I also strongly support Jediphiles theory, although I am still undecided whether the split took over a dead master or rather just a good friend. Obviously it had to be someone bonded to him.

 

Also, i find it odd that the exile joins the battle as a padawan but is going to take a padawan (the disciple). I seem to recall she is knighted or self proclaims jedi knight during the war. Anyone else notice this?

[Gurges-Ahter]

I agree that they aren't integral to the Exile's story; it's just odd to me that every single surviving Jedi from the Mandalorian Wars all turned DS, except for the Exile. They weren't dark side Jedi when they joined Revan/Malak. They just believed in the cause. The war turned them DS, and Kreia explains that part of the reason Revan was able to convert so many so quickly was because of Malachor V. Wookieepedia also backs this up. I really don't see any other possible explanation.

[General LiWar]

also, i just remembered, not every jedi joined the mandalorian wars. the ones that did were either transformed by battle or killed by the MSG. But there were LS jedi that remained after the war b/c they did not join. These were taken out during the jedi purge led by nihilus with the jedi assassins. Pretty much only the counsel members and bastila remained after that. And with regards to the ones that did convert to DS during the war, it is common with Star Wars that very few ever escape the DS on their own, they either suffer memory loss or are redeemed near their demise because of another

[Gurges-Ahter]

I agree with all of this, however, I don't think it addresses my points.

also, i just remembered, not every jedi joined the mandalorian wars. the ones that did were either transformed by battle or killed by the MSG.

I never spoke about the Jedi that didn't join Revan; just the ones that did.

And with regards to the ones that did convert to DS during the war, it is common with Star Wars that very few ever escape the DS on their own, they either suffer memory loss or are redeemed near their demise because of another

I agree that it's uncommon for fallen Jedi to redeem themselves. What I find striking is that every Jedi that followed Revan and survived Malachor V turned to the darkside. They weren't DS before Malachor V (at least not all of them.) The destruction at Malachor V that left a "wound in the force" forced the Revan followers to turn DS, or to die (with the exception of the Exile).

[Non-false Jedi]

I think that all Jedi except the Exile who were at Malachor V were killed by the Mass Shadow Generator. It was never explicitly pointed out exactly how Revan converted all the Jedi following him, but I think its a combination of their loyalty to Revan, (only his most loyal followers were left after the battle) and him taking them to dark places and those specail Jedi conversion chambers Atton mentioned.

[Gurges-Ahter]

I'm not sure if the Exile was actually on Malachor V or "watching from her ship", as wookieepedia states. Wasn't Nihilus on Malachor V?

[Non-false Jedi]

Obviously he/she wasn't at Malachor exactly but the Exile was obviously near enough to be affected by the destruction but far enough away not to be destroye by it. So I guess that would place him/her just outside the zone of destruction. Nihilus from Malachor in some sense, its where he learned his

"Hunger" from. I'm not sure if he was supposed to be in the Battle and get trapped there or he came there later and was stranded or somethng. Does anyone know something form the game that mentions something precisely about it?

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Ok, so that explains the Exile... what explains the rest of the Jedi that all went DS?

I thought that I had already adressed that. The ones which would likely turn their backs from Revan were killed at Malachor.

I'm not sure if the Exile was actually on Malachor V or "watching from her ship", as wookieepedia states. Wasn't Nihilus on Malachor V?

Hmm? You took your last citation from Wookieepedia and now you're not certain of it?

 

Well, i'm pretty sure he/she was at the battle. After all, the Exile was the one that ordered it's activation. And as the commanding officer, he should be on the battlefield, don't you think?

[Corinthian]

Logically, the best course of action in this scenario would be to be on the ship - why would you land any troops on Malachor V anyway? There's nothing tactically valuable down there except maybe the Trayus Academy and even that isn't going to give you more laser cannons. I would imagine the only people actually ON Malachor would be the techies setting up the Mass Shadow Generator.

[TKA-001]

That depends on whether it was an entirely fleet-based battle or not.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Hmm? You took your last citation from Wookieepedia and now you're not certain of it?

Just to clarify - I fully believe the Wookieepedia version. With statements like the one I made I'm catering to those who disagree with it, since it's not necessarily fact.

Well, i'm pretty sure he/she was at the battle. After all, the Exile was the one that ordered it's activation. And as the commanding officer, he should be on the battlefield, don't you think?

I'm sure she was at the battle too. She watched the MSG activate from her ship, so she had to be there. But now it's you going back on your argument, I think, because originally you said Revan tried to kill the Exile. Now you agree the Exile ordered the MSG activation, so where did Revan attempt to kill the Exile?

 

Logically, the best course of action in this scenario would be to be on the ship - why would you land any troops on Malachor V anyway? There's nothing tactically valuable down there except maybe the Trayus Academy and even that isn't going to give you more laser cannons. I would imagine the only people actually ON Malachor would be the techies setting up the Mass Shadow Generator.

True - it's probably more accurate to say that the Exile was there in her ship, but at a distance and not in range of the MSG radius.

[JCarter426]

I'm sure she was at the battle too. She watched the MSG activate from her ship, so she had to be there. But now it's you going back on your argument, I think, because originally you said Revan tried to kill the Exile. Now you agree the Exile ordered the MSG activation, so where did Revan attempt to kill the Exile?

 

It's entirely possible that Revan thought the MSG would kill the Exile, and the Exile didn't know how dangerous the MSG would be.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Yes, that's possible, just not as feasible as the alternative.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Yes, that's possible, just not as feasible as the alternative.

Why?

[Gurges-Ahter]

Why?

For all of the reasons I've mentioned above, including but not limited to the fact that Revan could have had the Exile killed (as Malak wanted to) but decided to let her go speak to the council.

 

Also, about the Exile not knowing how dangerous the MSG would be - I just find that one hard to believe because why would she have then activated it? She knew what it did - it would destroy all of the ships in orbit of Malachor V and end the Mandalorians right there. Why else would she have activated it? For fun? The purpose was to destroy the Mandalorian fleet.