Connection between Exile and Nihilus [Possible TSL spoiler]

[Jediphile]

^^

 

Hadn't thought of that, but you're right - the fact that Visas changes her comments based on the exile's alignment could be construed as a clue in support of the theory.

 

At the very least, it certainly underscores the connection between exile and Nihilus that the masters mention.

[PoiuyWired]

For some reason I always think that the Mask will be Exils one way or another, and well be part of Exile.

 

It actually surprises me that the game does not force you to take it.

 

Plus, Exile with the Nihilus Mask. That solves some gender problem for K3. And I don't see a "Peek under Exile/Revin's Dress" option in K3 anytime soon.

[Alessa]

Whoa long thought provoking read and a coffee later...I never looked that deeply into the connection between those two. It does sound totally plausable that Nihilus was the DS twin of the Exile and maybe Nihilus face wasnt shown as its a plot twist thats waiting to be revealed in K3 or just too similar to Revans Dark Lord reveal in K1 who knows?!

 

I was always under the impression that Revan was The Exiles opposite. Vrook says something about Revan being the life and the Exile being the death of the force and along with the The Exiles hazy 10 yr memory I dont quite buy the fact the The Exile is a good guy or will be in K3.

[SilentScope001]

I was always under the impression that Revan was The Exiles opposite. Vrook says something about Revan being the life and the Exile being the death of the force and along with the The Exiles hazy 10 yr memory I dont quite buy the fact the The Exile is a good guy or will be in K3.

 

Actually, as a correction, it was Kreia who said that. And some argue it is meant to be taking metaphorically, not literally.

[Masgrtgr]

In case anyone is doubting that Nihilus has a body and a face here is proof he does.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:KOTOR2Nihilus.jpg

 

Look at the picture closely and you can see a face.

[John Galt]

Hmm... I thought that at some point in the new Legacy series Darth Krayt consulted Nihilus' holocron to determine how to contain his consciousness within his armor. If Darth Nihilus indeed had a face under the mask(and therefore a physical body, too), why the reference to containing consciousness within armor?

 

Is this a continuity error, or a possible reference to Nihilus' return? I am baffled.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, there might be the remains of what used to be a body inside that outfit. But his mind is already contained in the armor he is wearing, and possably the mosk mostly. So the entitty known as Nihilus is really mostly armor, outfit, and a mask, with some dead human remains inside it. Imagine how this would smell.

 

Well, its like ... well, I am not going to quote warhammer40k here, but you know what I am saying.

[Corinthian]

So you're thinking that Nihilus is somewhat similar to the Thousand Sons legion?

 

I'm thinking that Nihilus is just a man so consumed by the Dark Side that any semblance of humanity has been washed away. He can't even speak Basic anymore, although he can apparently understand it. So physically, he's still human, but mentally and spiritually he's effectively desolate.

[PoiuyWired]

Actually, I think he might not be LIKE the Thousand Sons, but there are definitely similarity.

 

He is definitely linked to his mask, and that is a part of him. And there are strong hints that his physical human part does not matter anymore. Yes, I mean that his physical form does not matter anymore, and is nothing more than a beacon to his crazed so-called spirit.

 

To make things worse, I am not sure if Nihilus is totally destroyed yet. And, what I mean is, lightsaber and guns alone may not be enough to kill him. He would just latch onto something else, and wait for another body to pick it up, and use it as the vassel.

 

Ok, I might be dreaming too much. But somehow I think there might be more to him.

[JK24]

Wow! This is one heck of a theory, Jediphile! It's nice to see you put in so much time to give all those arguments in regards to it. I also believe this theory is plausible, now that I've read all the arguments. When I first heard of your theory, I didn't really think it possible and I was actually shocked. Although I always thought there was a similarity and connection between the Exile and Nihilus, until now I thought that Nihilus was a Jedi Knight during the Mandalorian Wars, who was captured by Mandalorians and eventually became the force-sucker he was. Your theory puts him in a completely new light. Again I congratulate and applaud all the time and thought you probably put into this!

 

btw, I've also noticed that under Nihilus' mask there seems to be a face. Actually if you turn the brightness level up on that image of him from Wookieepedia, you can actully see a clearer face, that actually looks rotten and old-like.

[RellioN]

But he doesn't, assuming it was him flying the Ebon Hawk towards the Unknow Regions at the end-game.

PS: Kreia's body remains when killed!

1) wasn't the ebon hawk destroyed at malachor V? when flying to Malachor they already crashed to the point where the EH would've been useless. It became stuck between those 2 rocks. and at the end you see a cutscene where the EH falls to the core of the planet.

 

2) I played kotor 2 quite a few times, but the only options I ever got was to throw her over the rail to the planet's core?

[Darth_vilas]

1) The EH onl is destroyed if you're DS(= not canon)

 

Some people said that Nihilus(?) was a Master of the exile cause they form bonds more easy.

Did you ever considered that The exile was the Master and Nihilus was the Padawan.

WE know that the exile trained The disciple for leaving with Revan for the Mandalore wars. So maybe he trained a new Padawan in the wars. Who would approve of the war. They formed a Connection and tadadididilaladida DArth Nihilus is Born on MAL V

[Corinthian]

Unless Nihilus is a time-traveling Exile gone mad. It's about the only cliche Sci-Fi Plot Star Wars hasn't done yet.

[Darth_vilas]

And if they do it will be dumb

[GarfieldJL]

I think Nihilus was another Jedi that was at Malachor V, only Nihilus chose to go into darkness and feed off of life to survive while the Exile chose the light. I think the Exile and Nihilus were two different people, and circumstance made them extremely similar.

[Lord Foley]

First off, I don't think that Nihilus is the Exile's dark half. From my understanding, the exile was extremely good at establishing Force bonds with people she was around for prolonged periods of time, and at Malachor, everyone of the people she was connected too either fell to the Dark Side or was slaughtered, causing so much pain in the Force that the exile cut herself off from the Force in reaction, or it would have overwhelmed and destroyed her- rather than her dark self simply splitting away.

 

Also, the fatal flaw: Nihilus is a male, while the canon Exile is a WOMAN.

You could argue that the essence of a person has no gender, but lucasarts would not confuse people like that.

 

I apologize in advance if this has already been suggested, but this thread was getting a little mind numbing to read all the way through.

 

So here is my thought: The Exile had an affinity for connecting to people through the Force. Why? Well, perhaps it was simply something in her personally, but perhaps it came about from being introduced to the Force by someone who had the same affinity.

 

Perhaps Darth Nihilus was what became of the Exile's master. This would certainly explain their supposed 'connection'.

 

The bond that forms between a master and apprentice is supposedly stronger than any other- (I believe Bastila even mentions that in passing), so, in theory, when the Exile was forced to retreat from the Force, it would have left not only a wound in the Force, but an extreme emptiness in the one most connected to her- an emptiness that could quickly turn to hunger.

[Lord Foley]

Nihilus sensed the masters on Katarr and was drawn to them, which fits with Kreia telling us that he is drawn to powerful forceusers. Now, Nihilus also senses the exile early in the plot, but it just occurred to me that there's a problem there... Because how can Nihilus sense the exile, when the exile has no force bond?!?

 

If Nihilus was indeed the Master rather than the alter-ego, he could have suddenly sensed his former apprentice again (the one who had left him so empty) when she reconnected to the Force.

[Jediphile]

Also, the fatal flaw: Nihilus is a male, while the canon Exile is a WOMAN.

You could argue that the essence of a person has no gender, but lucasarts would not confuse people like that.

 

The theory does take that into account, although I may not have touched upon it until the second or third post in this topic.

 

Perhaps Darth Nihilus was what became of the Exile's master. This would certainly explain their supposed 'connection'.

 

I have suggested that myself earlier also. However, a straight master-apprentice relationship doesn't quite go far enough to explain the unique relationship that we know exists between the exile and Nihilus.

 

The masters: "The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you."

 

A simple master-apprentice bond does not serve explain this IMO. That bond is well-known, and the jedi masters on Dantooine would seem to have no reason to suspect the exile for being responsible for Nihilus' destruction of Katarr if that were "all" that connects the exile and Nihilus.

 

If Nihilus was indeed the Master rather than the alter-ego, he could have suddenly sensed his former apprentice again (the one who had left him so empty) when she reconnected to the Force.

 

The exile has no force connection and does not yet use the force through others yet. Thus there is nothing for Nihilus to detect. Indeed, one could argue that the exile has no force connection at all (which is true), and so cannot be detected at all except by witnessing his actual use of force powers.

[GarfieldJL]

You do realize that Vrook was the one stating that, and that Vrook sees everyone as evil if they stray from the Jedi path. Even seeing Zayne as evil in the KotOR comics, when he wasn't.

 

 

Vrook was constantly under the opinion the Exile was evil even when the Exile clearly wasn't. He immediantly accused the Exile of having already fallen then when Kreia enters the mix he says that the she'll cause you to fall just as Revan did. So in his mind no matter what the Exile is evil.

 

The Jedi Council was afraid of what had happened to the Exile and instead of trying to understand it, they exiled him/her.

 

 

Kreia stated that all the Jedi at Malachor V either fell to the darkside or died, save one. The Exile, how do we know there wasn't another Jedi present that also fell to the darkside but also left a wound in the force similar to the exile and unlike the exile began feeding on people with the force.

 

If one survived by creating a wound in the Force, isn't it possible someone else did as well.

 

In a way Nihilus and the Exile were kindred spirits, but they were not a part of each other. The Exile chose one path, while Nihilus chose another path. Nihilus sensed the exile after the force was reawakened and the exile went to one side of the spectrum or the other, however Nihilus couldn't determine an accurate location. One could even argue he may not have even felt it when Visa told him about it, which is why he reacted so violently towards her and why he demanded she bring whatever it was before him.

[Jediphile]

You do realize that Vrook was the one stating that, and that Vrook sees everyone as evil if they stray from the Jedi path. Even seeing Zayne as evil in the KotOR comics, when he wasn't.

 

Vrook was not the only one saying that in the game, and the only time he ever appears in the KotOR comic book is in issue 9 when Draay and his cronies are called before the council, at which point Vrook surprisingly enough avoids speaking for or against Zayne in any way.

 

The Jedi Council was afraid of what had happened to the Exile and instead of trying to understand it, they exiled him/her.

 

Yes, but that does not invalidate how they sense the same thing from the exile that they do from Nihilus. Indeed, that they did still begs an answer.

 

Kreia stated that all the Jedi at Malachor V either fell to the darkside or died, save one. The Exile, how do we know there wasn't another Jedi present that also fell to the darkside but also left a wound in the force similar to the exile and unlike the exile began feeding on people with the force.

 

If one survived by creating a wound in the Force, isn't it possible someone else did as well.

 

The most obvious problem with that is that it contradicts the very point you quote Kreia for - that only the exile chose a different path.

 

Add to that the only time - to my knowledge - that Nihilus is actually named in the game, which is the description of his mask, and it becomes even more contradictory:

 

"You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V. By taking it from him, you have gained a stronger tie to the Force."

 

This is not spoken by Kreia, but stated factually in the game, which means that Nihilus did die on Malachor V. Thus he chose one of the two options Revan forced upon the jedi there - turn to the dark side or die. Nihilus died. Then he was reborn and turned to the dark side. Since rejecting either choice is the basis for the exile's ability to wound the force, that certainly seems to contradict with the idea that Nihilus might have made the same choice. Indeed, he "made" all the other choices available. So I don't think that can be used to explain his similar abilities.

 

In a way Nihilus and the Exile were kindred spirits, but they were not a part of each other. The Exile chose one path, while Nihilus chose another path.

 

Then why do they have so identical powers that the masters think the exile is responsible the destruction Nihilus has wrought?

[Starfyre]

Another thing pointing to the Exile and Nihilus theory is in the Star Wars Legacy comics. Darth Krayt using a holocrons seeks advice from 3 ancient Sith Lords, Nihilus among them. It is mentioned there that Nihilus had stored his consciousness in his armor after his death. With the fact we see Nihilus in Kotor 2 I am taking this to mean that Nihilus had stored his essence in a new body when being split off from the Exile. I could be interupting it wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

[Jediphile]

Another thing pointing to the Exile and Nihilus theory is in the Star Wars Legacy comics. Darth Krayt using a holocrons seeks advice from 3 ancient Sith Lords, Nihilus among them. It is mentioned there that Nihilus had stored his consciousness in his armor after his death. With the fact we see Nihilus in Kotor 2 I am taking this to mean that Nihilus had stored his essence in a new body when being split off from the Exile. I could be interupting it wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

 

I think the usual interpretation is that Nihilus survived the destruction of the Malachor V at the end of the Mandalorian Wars by storing his consciousness in his armor. This does fit with the description of the Nihilus mask, which states that Nihilus died and was reborn on Malachor V.

 

That said, I've been wondering the same thing, and there is nothing to dispute what you're suggesting. I mean, if we assume the exile has the mask, Nihilus could return through having stored what was left of him there, if the exile becomes a new Nihilus wearing the mask. It's an interpretation, of course, but I don't think it's impossible.

 

I'm not sure the Legacy comic book really does suggest this, since it would be a rather noticeable spoiler for a game that isn't even announced yet. Avellone may have planned something like that - as I have mused here myself - but in truth anything could still happen in a KotOR3. Nothing's set in stone. So while it fits, I don't think we can take that as a revealing clue.

[Master Flick]

i think the connection is true but i think visas has a larger part in this if nihillus doesnt detect the exile yet acts so violently towards here could she have a connection also maybe kriea was hiding her force precense until she thought the exile had a strong enough bond with her to lead nihilus to her and because nihillus was a dark part of the exile her couldnt sense the exiles force precense because he had the exiles force presence so for the exile to use the force he had to draw off of kreia but when she turned against the exile. the exile started to draw of of visas, aton etc. so thats why the exile didnt die because kreias connection had been severed

 

wow u think maybe obsidian and LA could have put this in the game all along and were just now dicovering it and jediphile u rock

[thacoolkid]

Another thing that only just occurred to me based on the discussion on whether Nihilus or Revan would win a fight...

 

Nihilus sensed the masters on Katarr and was drawn to them, which fits with Kreia telling us that he is drawn to powerful forceusers. Now, Nihilus also senses the exile early in the plot, but it just occurred to me that there's a problem there... Because how can Nihilus sense the exile, when the exile has no force bond?!?

 

Indeed, we could argue that the reason you cannot choose your party when you attack Nihilus is because of force bonds. Visas can "slip in" as Nihilus' apprentice, while Mandalore clearly has no force powers. But what the exile? Shouldn't Nihilus be able to sense him and be drawn to him? I should think so, since he has grown in power, yet the exile becoming more powerful (by gaining levels of experience) is not a factor to Nihilus, only his alignment seems to be. why? Okay, so the answer would seem to be obvious in that the exile has no force bond of his own, and so Nihilus cannot sense him. But if that's the case, then how can Nihilus sense him through the force early in the game, when he sends out Visas to find the exile? The only reason I can think of is that by embracing an extreme philosophy - be it LS or DS - the exile is finally moving away from his status of apathy, which caused the problem in the first place.

 

I could be wrong, but if i'm not mistaken Nihilus didn't sense the exile, only an anomaly in the force. He then sends Visas to investigate it. Doesn't Visas tell the Exile that her master doesn't know what she (the exile) is? Visas also states that there are many things that she (Visas) sees that her master cannot. This leads me to believe that Visas could see (to an extent) what the exile and Nihilus really were, and that Nihilus could not truely sense the exile for what she really was. Visas sees the exile as a means to the end of her master. That would explain why Visas (a Sith) would turn against her master so quickly; not to become the new sith lord, but to free herself.

 

I think your theory is excellent. And, with your theory, i also believe that you have already explained why previous statement is correct. You said that either Kriea or Atris told the exile that she could not feel herself. I'm assuming you meant in the force. If this is so, then it explains the reason why Nihilus couldn't tell what the exile was. It could also explain why the exile couldn't sense Nihilus (despite how power Nihilus had become). Being that the Exile and Nihilus are one in the same, the exile could not feel Nihilus (and vice versa).

 

Just some food for thought.....

 

thaCool

[jpiper22]

Great thread here Jediphile, have always felt the same about the Exile and Nihlius. Decided to play through Kotor II again and found this in looking something else up and felt compelled to join up and post a few comments after reading through it all.

 

1. A handful of people have thought that Nihlius might be the Exiles master, and while that might be possible I can recall a line describing the Mandalorian wars to, "...have effected the youngest of the order."

 

It's been said that the jedi force Revan and Malak recruited was made up of padawans and young knights. Who, I would think, were not as steeped in the "wait and see" approach as older knights and masters. Being the younger generation, they would be the ones who when seeing the harm caused by the mandalorians would want to act, and not sit back and do nothing. With that said, I frankly don't see the Exile's master being involved in the war, let alone Malachor V.

 

2. Earlier on page two it was assumed Kreia and Sion did not know the power of hunger like Nihlius. If you think to the lightside sequence on dantooine with the gathered masters when Kreia comes in and kills them before they strip the Exile of the force, she not only kills them but strips them of any trace of the force like they were going to do the Exile. I considered to this to be like what the Exile and Nihlius do, only controlled. As both the Exile and Nihlius do it uncontrolled, the Exile by making bonds and Nihlius just by his presence. What do you think?

 

Now that brings up a question too. If the jedi masters hadn't been interrupted by Kreia would they have even been able to do anything to the Exile as the force the Exile commands isn't really her own, as it is drawn from others?