Jedi vs Gray Jedi vs Dark Jedi (Sith)

[Fredi]

Well, Jedi and Sith don't destroy each other, it's the Sith that seek to anihilate all Jedis. And a Jedi ultimate goal consist on bringing balance to the Force, whatever that means. Meanwhile Gray Jedi finish tending to one side or another. Remenber Joley?

 

it's true ... ohh and Bienvenu au forum

[MacTavish]

So kinda like an ex-Sith? I could never picture a Sith leaving its order behind

Why not? If a Jedi left their Order to go follow Revan, why can't a Sith leave their order to go follow a cause of their own.

[JoeDoe 2.0]

I said I could not picture it, not that it wouldn't happen. But why would a Sith leave its Order or Master?

[MacTavish]

I said I could not picture it, not that it wouldn't happen. But why would a Sith leave its Order or Master?

Maybe they just didn't agree with something. Like the Lost 20 who left the Jedi, maybe there was "a lost 20" who left the Sith?

[Fredi]

Maybe they just didn't agree with something. Like the Lost 20 who left the Jedi, maybe there was "a lost 20" who left the Sith?

Strange, most have fall to the Dark side and become Sith’s.

 

So kinda like an ex-Sith? I could never picture a Sith leaving its order behind

 

Here is small list of possible reasons:

 

 

1)Maybe you are a Sith and you return to the light and don’t want to join the Jedi order.

2)You don’t like you’re master or you think you’re way too powerful to fallow you’re Sith master or the Sith council and for that you get expelled.(Sith case, killed)

3)Possibly you don’t like the way of thinking of Sith and you leave and become a Dark Jedi or Gray Jedi if you found light.

[Eiganjo]

Even though I hate taking the easy way out and not going for either extreme, I think Jedi and Sith both overdo it a lot in their beliefs (I don't think i have to give examples). Therefor I´d go for gray.

[Jvstice]

How is being a gray jedi taking the easy way out?

 

All the peer pressure is to join the Jedi/Sith.

Gray Jedi don't share in the political power of the other two groups.

Gray Jedi don't have the sheer number or power of force using allies to call on in times of danger and/or trouble.

[SilentScope001]

How is being a gray jedi taking the easy way out?

 

Morality.

 

"You see Czerka Corporation trying to take over Telos! What do you do?"

 

Jedi: "Czerka helped out the Sith during the Jedi Civil War! They are corporations, and corporations are greedy people! I have to attack them, even though they may actually be intelligent people who could actually rebuild Telos! Because if I help Czerka, I'll follow the Dark Side!"

 

Sith: "Czerka helped out the Sith during the Jedi Civil War! They are corporations, and corporations are greedy people! I have to help them because they are evil, otherwise I'd be helping out those Goody Two-Shoes...even though those people got lots of posions and stimulants, could easily reconnect me back to the Force, and overall provide me with political cover to do other evil deeds. Becuase if I help them out, I'll follow the Light Side, and lose my powers!"

 

Gray: "Hm. Czerka offers me money, the other side offers me the Force. I could choose either side and not have to worry about wheter I gain or lose Light/Dark Side Points! Wow! This is awesome!"

 

See? Easy way out. Gray Side can choose whatever side can help them out in the long term, while the Jedi/Sith cannot choose and have to follow their code.

[JoeDoe 2.0]

You can actually do that in the game? I could only help one side.

 

 

With the "droid escort" mission I could only give it to one side (Czerka or Ithorians) so I've never been able to please both sides

 

[SilentScope001]

I meant, in the broader sense, you have to help only the Light Side if you are a Jedi or the Dark Side if you are Sith. If you are a Gray Jedi, you can help the LS and then the DS. So, while you do have to choose between Czerka and the other people...well, at least you can choose rather than being compelled to help only one side. So if you want to help out Czerka today, that's fine. Then later, you can help out the LS faction on another planet.

 

 

...altough there was a bug that allowed you to work both factions...and end up making BOTH SIDES hate you.

 

[Alexander the Great]

GAY JEDI WINS AT LIFE.

 

You got that right. *Winks at you from across the bar*

 

Seriously though, gray Jedi seem to have the best philosophy (Jolee and Qui-Gon). It's how you use the powers that counts. Jolee has some pretty wise and thoughtful explanations, like the love conversation and the dialog he has with Bastila.

[Gargoyle King]

...altough there was a bug that allowed you to work both factions...and end up making BOTH SIDES hate you.

Wow i never knew that, any ideas on how to implement theis "bug", i'd love to try it!

[Prime]

Is there an example of a "gray" Jedi that hasn't fallen to the dark side?

[Gargoyle King]

Is there an example of a "gray" Jedi that hasn't fallen to the dark side?

Well, yeah - Jolee Bindo for one! (in the game anyhow, don't know about the comics etc.)

[SilentScope001]

Wow i never knew that, any ideas on how to implement theis "bug", i'd love to try it!

 

 

Unsure really. All I remember was that it was in the Obisidan forums. But after making both sides hate you, you can (possibly) still just access the Ship that will take you down to Telos, because you may have already killed off the Exchange Leader and helped out at least one of the factions, so essentially it's supposed to not be a gamekilling bug.

 

 

Well, yeah - Jolee Bindo for one! (in the game anyhow, don't know about the comics etc.)

 

But he says he's not a Jedi, just a regural old Force User.

[JediMaster12]

As much as I am lighhtsider at heart, I actually prefer the grey Jedi approach. More often than not I see things neither as black or white. I don't like killing but if given the choice for the whole greater good, I probably would. I'm not saying that I would though.

I have liked Kyle Katarn's philosophy that powers aren't inherently evil, it's how you use it. I tend to think of the gifts and talents that we have in the same way.

[Prime]

Well, yeah - Jolee Bindo for one! (in the game anyhow, don't know about the comics etc.)

An interesting example which bring up two points.

 

One, the canon definition of Gray Jedi is a Jedi that does not follow the will of the Jedi Council, and essentially functions outside the Jedi Order. It does not refer to a Jedi who attempts to use the dark side of the Force and not be corrupted (although many people use the term this way). Jolee was being referred to as the former, since he has a lot of philosophical differences on how the Jedi should do things. In terms of the story, Jolee does not use the dark side of the Force, although in terms of game mechanics you can use him and any other party member that way if you choose.

 

Secondly...

 

I have liked Kyle Katarn's philosophy that powers aren't inherently evil, it's how you use it.

I think most of us in canon debates chalk that line up to the description of gameplay mechanics in Jedi Academy. Intention doesn't have anything to do with the dark side, since the evil act is the use of it in the first place. For example, force lightning is the corruption of the natural force which is considered in and of itself an evil act by the Jedi and in the SW universe. So one's intent doesn't matter, especially in that case since lightning can only be used to harm others.

[Gargoyle King]

I think most of us in canon debates chalk that line up to the description of gameplay mechanics in Jedi Academy. Intention doesn't have anything to do with the dark side, since the evil act is the use of it in the first place. For example, force lightning is the corruption of the natural force which is considered in and of itself an evil act by the Jedi and in the SW universe. So one's intent doesn't matter, especially in that case since lightning can only be used to harm others.

Good point, as DF powers can only really be seen as cruel as they inflict serious harm or death at an opponent, whether that opponent deserves it or not. However they are some powers of the DS that can be seen as grey areas such as the extremely rare power of Force Resurrection that raises people from the dead by directly influencing the midi-chlorians (an example of this use is when Cade Skywalker raises his master Wolf Sazen back from the dead). It can be seen as an act of mercy but because it demands a high use and focus of the dark side it is inherently evil as it corrupts those who use it.

[Alexander the Great]

Well, using Force lightning to kill an enemy isn't much worse than using a lightsaber to do it.

 

Wasn't Qui-Gon considered a fairly gray Jedi? He disobeyed the Council many times, and even had the skill to be on it, but he focused more on what he thought was right rather than the Council's will. Of course, he had good intentions anyway, so he didn't fall to the dark side.

[Gargoyle King]

Well, using Force lightning to kill an enemy isn't much worse than using a lightsaber to do it.

 

Wasn't Qui-Gon considered a fairly gray Jedi? He disobeyed the Council many times, and even had the skill to be on it, but he focused more on what he thought was right rather than the Council's will. Of course, he had good intentions anyway, so he didn't fall to the dark side.

Well killing someone with a lightsaber is a lot better that killing someone with force lightning, as it is slower and more painful, a lightsaber can be considered as more merciful.

I think canonically Qui-Gon was classed as a Grey Jedi as the Jedi Council didn't view him as a true Jedi (the reasonings why he never progressed from Jedi Knight to Jedi Master) because of his unorthadox views and disobediance to the council, arguably having similar traits and qualities to a future Anakin Skywalker.

[SilentScope001]

So one's intent doesn't matter, especially in that case since lightning can only be used to harm others.

 

How then can you explain away Destroy Droid, a LS Force Power that has the main goal of harming droids. Not only is it LS according to the KOTOR series, but it is also said to be LS in that Droid's Essential Guide as well, discovered during the Great Droid Revolution by LS Jedi.

 

Why is this a LS power, and not DS? All it does is destroy Droids, and doesn't droids feel pain?

[stoffe]

How then can you explain away Destroy Droid, a LS Force Power that has the main goal of harming droids. Not only is it LS according to the KOTOR series, but it is also said to be LS in that Droid's Essential Guide as well, discovered during the Great Droid Revolution by LS Jedi.

 

Why is this a LS power, and not DS? All it does is destroy Droids, and doesn't droids feel pain?

 

Droids doesn't seem to be included in "others" in the Star Wars universe, being considered objects and possessions to buy, sell, dispose of and generally do with as you see fit.

 

Thus the "Destroy Droid" power would at most be useful for destruction of property such as droids and security systems like turrets, cameras or other electronics. Apparently it's a lightside act to smash up things, as long as it doesn't harm anyone physically.

 

I do find the LS classification of Destroy Droid to be a bit peculiar as well, seems like a neutral/utility power like Push/Telekinesis. I suppose you could consider overloading an electrical system to be a more brute force variant of the "mind trick" powers used against living beings.

[Alexander the Great]

And then there's emerald lightning or electric judgement or whatever it was called, which was essentially the same as lightning, except that it drew from light energy.

[Karenaide]

I vote somewhere between Gray Jedi and Jedi.

[Alexander the Great]

Let me repost something that got deleted:

 

So, this is how it goes. The Sith are all like "hellz yeah, we dominate all y'all, got that?!". Then, the Jedi are all like "Yo, you can't go pushin' us around like that! Why ya gotta be frontin', son?" The Jedi roll out, sending a couple of knights to kill a Sith Lord, then the Sith are like "d00d, I could be t3h Dark Lord!" and they all kill each other. The Jedi are then like "OMG, we just totally beat them! Girl power!", then Yoda says "A shameful victory, it was."

 

The whole time, the gray Jedi are hiding in the trees, and they're like "WTF, mate? What's going on?" And the whole thing is disappointing, really.

 

In other words, the Jedi take out a prime factor in the Sith (i.e. Nomi stripping Ulic of the Force, Revan killing Malak), and the Sith end up destroying themselves in a power struggle. The whole time, the gray Jedi are helping when they can, but they don't follow the Order. In summary, the Sith are a bunch of back-stabbing idiots, the Jedi are too afraid to take the Sith on their own, and the gray Jedi are loners (usually) who have good intentions, but don't let the Council hold them back.