Nancy Allen`` Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I would say the latter, depending on the intent. Animals like Rancors are not really capeable of good or evil, it takes a human touch. Anyway, you are arguing that the Jedi's inaction is evil? Revan and Malek are very much what the Jedi feared by acting. It's an age old arguement, be slaughtered by the Mandalorians or risk falling to the dark side to prevent it from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 At any rate There are countless examples from the SW Universe. Heck even in TSL the examples are everywhere. The Jedi hiding on Katarr. Which led to the destruction of that planet. As it was stated that Darth Nihilus was mere hunger, he was more like a beast. Which is the more evil, the rancor, or the one who leads the rancor to a bunch of children.That's like saying it is a religious group's fault that they congregated and were attacked by terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 That's like saying it is a religious group's fault that they congregated and were attacked by terrorists. actually probably closer to people hiding in a crowd of civilians who end up causing civilians to get hurt in the crossfire. If that religious group had as its goal the extermination of all who follow another religious code, then hides in a crowd of people, see how the comparison works. IF however the Jedi were to make an attempt at a completely peaceful resolution that didn't equate to "convert or die" then I could see how they were better than the Sith, BUT they don't. They hunt down Sith and kill them. It would be akin to if the Christians were to go out and hunt down every muslim out there and tell them they had to throw off their "evil" religion and embrace the peaceful Christian religion or be forced to die. Jedi are intolerant, judgemental, arrogant, and violent. No, I'm not attacking Christian, or Muslim beliefs in this. Nor am I trying to say Christianity is good and muslims are evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Jedi are intolerant, judgemental, arrogant, and violent. That's very much a description of the Sith as well. What's worse they seek to cause harm to the galaxy rather than at least look like they defend it from evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 That's very much a description of the Sith as well. What's worse they seek to cause harm to the galaxy rather than at least look like they defend it from evil. Point being that labeling Sith evil is simply a matter of perspective. And the sith don't want to destroy the galaxy. They don't want to harm the galaxy. They seek to be the strongest. As do the Jedi. "From my point of view the Jedi are evil" Now, as for my own views, I see the jedi as being evil through apathy AND through action. I see the Sith being evil only through action. Neither is truly free of evil, but neither are they truly evil. They are both good to an extent. And they are both evil to an extent. Denying true love is the greatest of evils in my eyes. If you have ever met your true love, you would know this. Denying emotion from someone. Telling them that they should not feel passion. Passion and love have inspired some of the greatest stories of all time. Again, try to see from the opposite side. It is infinately easier to argue that the jedi, whom Lucas has made to be heroes, are good, but step out and see how the the Sith are good. It may even help you in your own life to keep from being too judgemental. Think of it this way. Robin hood. A common thief who badgers the helpless only because they have earned themselves some money. A gang leader. A violent criminal. He would be evil in some people's view. A bank robber does the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Sure, I would never be a Jedi myself and much of that has to do with their code. But tell me something, what good have the Sith as a whole done? What acts that follow the Sith way has not been evil or committed with the intent to cause harm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lito Starkiller Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Your mother was killed before you were born... How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kalverys Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 ^ That's actually an easy answer... Point being that labeling Sith evil is simply a matter of perspective. And the sith don't want to destroy the galaxy. They don't want to harm the galaxy. They seek to be the strongest. As do the Jedi. "From my point of view the Jedi are evil" Now, as for my own views, I see the jedi as being evil through apathy AND through action. I see the Sith being evil only through action. Neither is truly free of evil, but neither are they truly evil. They are both good to an extent. And they are both evil to an extent. Denying true love is the greatest of evils in my eyes. If you have ever met your true love, you would know this. Denying emotion from someone. Telling them that they should not feel passion. Passion and love have inspired some of the greatest stories of all time. Again, try to see from the opposite side. It is infinately easier to argue that the jedi, whom Lucas has made to be heroes, are good, but step out and see how the the Sith are good. It may even help you in your own life to keep from being too judgemental. Think of it this way. Robin hood. A common thief who badgers the helpless only because they have earned themselves some money. A gang leader. A violent criminal. He would be evil in some people's view. A bank robber does the same thing. I agree with what is said. Take Revan for instance... a Sith Lord, while he did try to take over the Galaxy, it was because the Republic had become corrupt, the only true difference in their views is that the Sith slaughter countless innocents in order to be the strongest... and the Jedi kill only when neccessary... even their greatest enemies they will not kill, they would rather make them see the error of their ways and try to help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jvstice Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Sure, I would never be a Jedi myself and much of that has to do with their code. But tell me something, what good have the Sith as a whole done? What acts that follow the Sith way has not been evil or committed with the intent to cause harm? Kreia's training of the Jedi Exile to confront her on Malachor was either to free the people of the SWU from the force, or to stop the echo, depending on which parts of what she says you take literal. If you really accept her proposition that the force is a tyrant, or that the echoes could make any victory over the Jedi Pyrrhic, then what she did was to the good, and for good motives. I'd argue that this makes her unique in having both good intentions and a good effect on the whole. Exile does draw out and kill all the Sith Lords, no matter whether you play LS or DS. Also, the Jedi order is reformed to get rid of a lot of their over - regulation and micro - managing for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Allen`` Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Yes, Kreia is very much an exception to the rule of Sith deriving pleasure from committing acts we would deem as evil. Doing what might be seen as the wrong thing for alturistic reasons. By the same token some of the acts you commit that gain influence with her are very much considered evil. Killing that guy in the Enclave for example, or letting him be killed. Telling the Exchange to kill a sick man rather than heal him. Convincing someone his wife's dead. I'm quite sure that no regid moral code is needed to judge such acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Kreia's training of the Jedi Exile to confront her on Malachor was either to free the people of the SWU from the force, or to stop the echo, depending on which parts of what she says you take literal. If you free the people of the force, everyone would die. That to me, would be mass genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Not necessarily true Rev7. If you free the galaxy of the Force, you are left with people who like the Vong are free of the entrapments of the will of the Force. The force could no longer be used to throw people around. Nobody could use the Force to crush people, choke people, electrocute people, give people an unfair advantage in gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDoe 2.0 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Didn't Kreia said that the Force binded everything (kinda like fate?) and people's lives revolved around it? Then destroying the Force will destabilize the balance the Force created IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Didn't Kreia said that the Force binded everything (kinda like fate?) and people's lives revolved around it? Then destroying the Force will destabilize the balance the Force created IMO. OR correct the imbalance created by it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 That is exactly true JoeDoe! IF Kreia destroyed the force then all of the galaxies inhabitants would be like the Jedi on the Star Forge that Malak captured and didn't "let them become one with the force". "For all purposes and intentions they are dead". About the Vong part, we don't exactly know if they even existed in the Old Republic era. They were located in an entirely different galaxy, and might not even know what the force is. So if they came into, what we call known space, there would be nothing if the force was destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 My point would be that it is possible to exist without the Force. Those that live without the Force would feel nothing. Those that feel the Force may feel an emptiness. Those strong with the Force would die. But in the end the Force would cease to be, and those that survived would soon forget the existence of the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Surely without the force everything would cease to be... Didn't Qui-gon state that the force surrounds and binds the universe together, and that it was in every living thing regardless of force sensitivity? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 More Jedi Lies!!! Just kidding. Well seeing as how one was able to turn away from the Force and survive, It is feasable that those who have the ability to turn away from it or do not feel it strongly would not be harmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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