Lucasarts and Bioware Corp. partnership OFFICIAL - At last

[lukeiamyourdad]

Well, the lucasartsbioware.com domain was registered on Oct. 11, the same day that EA announced they were purchasing BioWare and Pandemic Studios. That says to me that the details of how the joint BioWare/LucasArts project would be handled had been worked out during the acquisition process. I think it's likely this deal between LA and BioWare was reached some time ago and there was a lot of behind-the-scenes activity to work out how the joint BioWare/LA project was going to be handled with EA entering the picture.

 

 

The only hiccup, I think, is how EA mentioned that the MMORPG was one of the reasons they wanted to buy Bioware. The problem is, they wouldn't own the IP, since even if jointly developed, Lucasarts probably would retain control of it. I would find it strange that EA would be so excited about that.

 

 

a future Yuuzhang Vong MMORPG

 

That is of course impossible. Yuuzhan Vong suck. I know that opinion is not truth and I constantly say so, but unfortunately, this is cold hard fact.

[Jvstice]

Actually I'd think Legacy era would be more realistic than Yuuzan Vong invasion era.

[adamqd]

^^^

agreed, a lot of good stories and characters were written despite the ridiculous Vong, but the Legacy era, Especially the 130 bby onwards stuff, is a Good thing...On a side note..KotOR era rules all!!

[lukeiamyourdad]

I too agree about that. I read some stuff about Legacy and although some things made me cringe a little, I also think that as far as post-Star Wars movies EU goes, it's the second best that's been made.

 

The best was anything related to Thrawn

[Negative Sun]

Unfortunately there's not too much about the Legacy Era out yet, it would involve coming up with a lot of stuff...And I also don't like it much as it makes anything that happens before that kinda obsolete (like Dark Empire did *cringes* even though I like Boba not being dead and all, the whole Luke going DS then LS again story was stupid, as was Palpy's resurrection!)

[Char Ell]

It'd be a safe bet for easy money.

I agree that it would be easy money. However have we ever known BioWare to take a project just because it was easy money? I'm not aware of any such examples. If it was easy money they wanted then why did they turn down KotOR 2? I think because they wanted to be able to have full freedom to create their own stories and not have to share revenues with licensors.

 

The only hiccup, I think, is how EA mentioned that the MMORPG was one of the reasons they wanted to buy Bioware. The problem is, they wouldn't own the IP, since even if jointly developed, Lucasarts probably would retain control of it. I would find it strange that EA would be so excited about that.

Yes, that does seem kind of strange but according to the BioWare and Pandemic Studios profiles posted on EA's investor website the BioWare MMORPG is not an owned IP so it stands to reason that it's licensed and EA was of course fully aware of that when they made the decision to purchase the two game developers.

[Jeff]

I agree with pretty much all of Char Ell's points. I can't see a company like BioWare taking a project for easy money. BioWare turning down TSL is one great example of this as well as the fact that they've made this partnership. For something as traditional as a SPRPG I don't think it would be necessary.

 

Plus, who knows, maybe that primotech article wasn't just a rumor?

[lukeiamyourdad]

Yes, that does seem kind of strange but according to the BioWare and Pandemic Studios profiles posted on EA's investor website the BioWare MMORPG is not an owned IP so it stands to reason that it's licensed and EA was of course fully aware of that when they made the decision to purchase the two game developers.

 

I guess my gun ran out of ammo. Although the doubt in my mind probably stems from my wishes of a KotOR 3 SPRPG being made... the evidence seems mostly against it.

 

I'm a big WoW fan and have been playing for quite some time. The problem is not having time or money for two MMORPGs and it would tear me apart to have to choose.

 

Then, although my hopes and reasonings are for an MMORPG that would not take the place of KotOR3, there's always that lingering fear in my mind. I simply wouldn't enjoy a sequel that changes things so radically from a gameplay perspective. I guess I'm just rambling on now.

[Jvstice]

lukeiamyourdad: I don't see that creating an MMORPG eliminates them later releasing a single player campaign game sequel to the series already in existence. I think that there will come a point where Blizzard will make a WC4, once WoW has played out all it can, and don't see any reason why if the talk of a KOTOR MMO is for real, it would mean any more than a loooong delay, rather than LA saying it would never happen.

 

LA did say that they intended to focus on 3 - 4 games a year, did they not? Frustrating as it will be if they insist on this MMO playing itself out first (if it exists), I don't think they're mutually exclusive. On the plus sides LA is bigger than Blizzard and since it seems they're contracting out their MMO, it would leave them free to find another developer, like obsidian for K3. So I don't think that they would only be able to have 1 major thing on their plate, and have to have everything else fall by the wayside the way blizzard has.

 

I mean they could be looking at a KOTOR MMO to do their advertising for a KOTOR 3 normal game, rather than replacing it.

[Char Ell]

Plus, who knows, maybe that primotech article wasn't just a rumor?

It does make one wonder, doesn't it?

I guess my gun ran out of ammo. Although the doubt in my mind probably stems from my wishes of a KotOR 3 SPRPG being made... the evidence seems mostly against it.

Well, I'm not real confident it's a KotOR MMORPG and I too would prefer a KotOR 3 SPRPG. It does appear that a KotOR MMORPG is the strongest possibility but of course that is far from certain. At this point I feel strongly that BioWare's MMORPG will be based in the SW universe.

 

One thought that keeps nagging at me though is the two SW TV series that are in the works. I consider it a given that LucasArts will come out with games in support of these TV shows. What if this "ground-breaking interactive entertainment product" turns out to be an MMORPG that ties into one of the TV shows somehow? That seems quite ground-breaking to me. IMO the 3D animated one would work best since it's set during the Clone Wars time period and last I heard GL wants to launch that series next fall. In-game events could be set up around events that occur in the TV show but in a MMORPG environment it would be more interactive, like there is a battle on some planet in the TV show and the MMORPG has quests that tie into that and your character would be involved in the same battle being depicted on the TV show but have a parallel storyline. Crazy enough idea, eh? But the possibility that this joint BioWare-LucasArts project could have something to do with one of the TV shows is one that I can't logically eliminate so it's still out there for me.

 

1UP has posted an article titled The Evidence for BioWare's Star Wars MMO.

 

One interesting thing I just learned was that Microsoft had offered to buy BioWare at some point prior to March of this year. I totally missed that interesting tidbit of info. If I would have known that then I wouldn't have been so surprised by the deal with EA.

That said, Kim admitted that Microsoft tried to buy the studio: "Well, I tried, but& not everybody wants to be bought, Elevation owns BioWare," Kim said.

Source: 1UP.com

[Jediphile]

1UP has posted an article titled The Evidence for BioWare's Star Wars MMO.

 

Well, let's consider it...

 

Obviously, BioWare has already shown LucasArts they have a deep respect for Star Wars and ability to create compelling new characters and stories within that universe -- hello, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

 

This argument, of course, COMPLETELY ignores a fairly significant point that have long, long since been mentioned on these (and other) boards, which is that a major problem with Galaxies is not that it's badly written, but that everybody insists on playing Jedi in any Star Wars MMORPG. Getting Bioware to write a new MMORPG is not going to magically make that problem disappear, because it's related to the game type.

 

KotOR works in no small part because it's a single-player experience. I mean, does anyone here think it would have been a good idea to do KotOR as a MMORPG, where every single active player turns out to be an amnesic former Sith Lord looking for either redemption or revenge [insert player choice here]?!?

 

Let's face it - the strength of that writing is founded squarely on the single-player approach, and there is no way you can do the same in an MMORPG, because you cannot dictate the player's entire past and in such detail as is done in KotOR. There IS something to be said for non-interactive entertainment, and KotOR uses it for maximum effect - you don't get to decide whether you're Revan or not, and you don't get to define your background or how the story unfolds - you just get to decide how you feel about it.

 

So to take the strength of writing in KotOR and use that as a basis for saying that Bioware would do a better Star Wars MMORPG than Sony...

 

Well, let's just say I don't find the argument particularly compelling or convincing...

 

There is no way that the "jedi-problem" can be overcome. If jedi exist in the MMORPG, then people will play them over any and all other characters. It's just that simple.

 

So I think there is only one way that a Star Wars MMORPG can ever work, and that's to take away the jedi or at least prevent any possibility of players playing them. The obvious choice for that would be to set the action during the age of the Empire in the original trilogy or just before it.

 

Hmmm... Is it just me or does that seem to fit with LA's upcoming live-action tv-series?

 

EDIT: Oh, silly me. 1up could be absolutely correct, of course, that this is about a Lucasarts IP. That does not need to mean that it's Star Wars, though. Now, I'd agree that they are unlikely to revive ancient IPs such as Monkey Island or Zak McCracken (unfortunately...), but there IS a fairly huge other LA-IP that's been on the horizon for a long time and which is coming out in may 2008

[Jvstice]

I'd agree that sounds like some sort of Star Wars MMO. But I agree with Jediphile that makes a specifically KOTOR MMO seem less likely.

[lukeiamyourdad]

This argument, of course, COMPLETELY ignores a fairly significant point that have long, long since been mentioned on these (and other) boards, which is that a major problem with Galaxies is not that it's badly written, but that everybody insists on playing Jedi in any Star Wars MMORPG. Getting Bioware to write a new MMORPG is not going to magically make that problem disappear, because it's related to the game type.

 

I mentioned this problem several times regarding to a KotOR 3 MMORPG. In this sense, you are 100% correct. However, if the game was set in the Mandalorian Wars or before, there is nothing that stops the number of Jedi from being really high. Galaxies could not possibly have so many Jedi without killing the setting. The KotOR universe on the other hand, can.

 

KotOR works in no small part because it's a single-player experience. I mean, does anyone here think it would have been a good idea to do KotOR as a MMORPG, where every single active player turns out to be an amnesic former Sith Lord looking for either redemption or revenge [insert player choice here]?!?

 

Twisted logic. In MMOs, you do not start as former super-powerful beings. You're just an above average adventurer. The background story is adapted and up to every single player to choose.

 

Let's face it - the strength of that writing is founded squarely on the single-player approach, and there is no way you can do the same in an MMORPG, because you cannot dictate the player's entire past and in such detail as is done in KotOR. There IS something to be said for non-interactive entertainment, and KotOR uses it for maximum effect - you don't get to decide whether you're Revan or not, and you don't get to define your background or how the story unfolds - you just get to decide how you feel about it.

 

Of course you can't do the same. That's because they're not the same. You cannot apply SPRPG logic to an MMORPG.

 

So to take the strength of writing in KotOR and use that as a basis for saying that Bioware would do a better Star Wars MMORPG than Sony...

 

Well, let's just say I don't find the argument particularly compelling or convincing...

 

Yes, writing can be stronger then SOE's, the morons did recycle HK-47 remember? Not very original.

 

Bioware can also use better gameplay mechanics adapted from the post-WoW world, meaning more content, polish and lesser grinding.

 

There is no way that the "jedi-problem" can be overcome. If jedi exist in the MMORPG, then people will play them over any and all other characters. It's just that simple.

 

So I think there is only one way that a Star Wars MMORPG can ever work, and that's to take away the jedi or at least prevent any possibility of players playing them. The obvious choice for that would be to set the action during the age of the Empire in the original trilogy or just before it.

 

Bull. Make everyone a Jedi or Force user and put them into a timeline that where that would make sense. The problem has been solved.

 

Hmmm... Is it just me or does that seem to fit with LA's upcoming live-action tv-series?

 

EDIT: Oh, silly me. 1up could be absolutely correct, of course, that this is about a Lucasarts IP. That does not need to mean that it's Star Wars, though. Now, I'd agree that they are unlikely to revive ancient IPs such as Monkey Island or Zak McCracken (unfortunately...), but there IS a fairly huge other LA-IP that's been on the horizon for a long time and which is coming out in may 2008

 

Really, an Indiana Jones RPG? But an MMO is unlikely?

[Henz]

I'm not playing a KOTOR MMO unfortunately - I have a girlfriend.

 

 

 

... lol

 

MMORPGs are not for me. I'll wait for KOTOR III thanks.

 

Please don't use that type of derogetory term when stating your opinion. It has no place on these forums, thank you. LT

[Tommycat]

Somebody hadn't followed the beginning of SWG. Perhaps if they had played before the NGE they would know that it was possible to give everyone the option to become a jedi. Quite a few people in the SWG community refuse to play as Jedi. I was one of them. I played as a smuggler. I had no desire to be a jedi. Part of the failing was that in the era(between ANH and ESB) there were supposed to be severely limited numbers of jedi. Seeing 50% of the population playing jedi was very outlandish for there supposedly being so few jedi that Luke would be the almost last hope for the jedi(wait there is another)... HOWEVER in the Old republic, it is possible to allow more people to be jedi(though I hope they make it as difficult to achieve as the original SWG(pre-CU)).

[adamqd]

If it is an MMO and If it were the case that everyone wanted to be Jedi or Sith, it would make more sense for it to happen around 2000-1000 BBY, as at that point there were armies of Jedi and Sith at War with each other...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/New_Sith_Wars

[Jediphile]

I mentioned this problem several times regarding to a KotOR 3 MMORPG. In this sense, you are 100% correct. However, if the game was set in the Mandalorian Wars or before, there is nothing that stops the number of Jedi from being really high. Galaxies could not possibly have so many Jedi without killing the setting. The KotOR universe on the other hand, can.

 

Except...

 

1. The setting is fixed. You cannot be a jedi fighting in the war without being exiled by the jedi order, nor can you play a major character, since the leaders are Revan and Malak.

 

2. All players will still be only jedi, and so that problem persists.

 

3. The plot itself is fixed and cannot deviate from the historic events as established by the KotOR games or comic books, making for a setting where nothing any player does can alter or evolve the setting (= boring). This means no room for plot development or growth of character. You can grow the stats and nothing more (also = boring).

 

4. Your character can have no future, since we already know virtually any and all jedi and sith are dead within a decade or so.

 

Twisted logic. In MMOs, you do not start as former super-powerful beings. You're just an above average adventurer. The background story is adapted and up to every single player to choose.

 

Which is precisely why the alleged strength of KotOR as written by Bioware that 1up points to cannot take place in an MMORPG, since you cannot have such backgrounds for the playable characters. Actually more like really simple logic. Perhaps even very simple conclusions.

 

Of course you can't do the same. That's because they're not the same. You cannot apply SPRPG logic to an MMORPG.

 

My point exactly. That's why 1up's take on the situation is questionable.

 

Yes, writing can be stronger then SOE's, the morons did recycle HK-47 remember? Not very original.

 

It might be stronger, but as you say yourself, you cannot apply SPRPG to an MMORPG. Consequently, the plot cannot be as deep.

 

Bioware can also use better gameplay mechanics adapted from the post-WoW world, meaning more content, polish and lesser grinding.

 

Which all means nothing to me. KotOR games are good for the depth of the plots. They are like interactive novels, where you can affect bits and pieces, but not the larger picture. This means less freedom to play, but also potential for stronger plots with deeper and more complex characters. You cannot have that in an MMORPG, where total freedom to explore is essential.

 

Bull. Make everyone a Jedi or Force user and put them into a timeline that where that would make sense. The problem has been solved.

 

Actually, "killed" would be the appropriate term. You're basically "solving" the problem by "removing" all non-jedi from the setting...

 

Since that has a certain "master race"-sort of quality to it, you'll forgive me if I do not find the idea particularly compelling or palatable... In fact, I might use the same term you did in reference to that suggestion

 

Really, an Indiana Jones RPG? But an MMO is unlikely?

 

Perhaps. But it's still better than a KotOR MMORPG.

[Tommycat]

Don't cast MMO players as fat girlfriendless guys living in their mom's basement. I know more MMO players with good jobs a wife and kids than I do who fit the stereotype. In fact I know more console gamers who fit that stereotype(and no, I'm not saying console gamers fit the stereotype, just pointing out that stereotyping is a bad idea).

 

If it is an MMO, they can spend more time on the development of your character. They can spend more time on developing your connection to the Force. They don't have to slap months/years of training into a cutscene. They can go more in depth into a story that doesn't have to fit on a single dvd. They can have a great deal of content stored on their servers, that just flat out wouldn't fit on a DVD.

 

Of course so far here are the facts.

Bioware is developing their own MMO.

It is their first venture into this.

Lucasarts and Bioware have entered into an agreement to develop an interactive experience.

Lucasarts largest IP is Star Wars, but it is not their ONLY IP

Bioware's MMO is NOT an owned IP.

MMO's in general make more money per year than SP games.

Bioware has stated explicitly that they are NOT making KotOR 3.

 

Things we do not know, but are rumored to be true:

Whether the IP for Bioware's MMO is owned by Lucasarts.

Whether that IP is Star Wars

Whether the setting is in the Old Republic.

 

Edit: The thing that bugs me is the statement:

You can't change a persistent world in an MMO.

False. It just appears to you that it is not possible. However different factions can control planets. For instance: In the Koonda battle, you change the faction in power. You should be able to reverse that, if the two main characters on opposing sides are not killed. If you cause them to flee, you affect power on that planet. Mercenaries control it one day, a group of adventurers come by and liberate Koonda. Koonda is now free again. You can get several added quests for either Mercs or Adare. Jedi related quests could open up for Adare, Sith related could open up for Mercs. Heck you could open up some special jedi quests for when the Mercs are in power. Say liberate Koonda quests. These could be undone by Sith types who want the Jedi out when Adare is in power. This is just ONE idea. Of course we could use this type of example for any number of places affected by the first or second KotOR games. The only difference is whether it is permanent or reversable.

[Jediphile]

Note: You shouldn't doublepost. It's not allowed here. I suggest you simply edit your last post instead. That's what I do.

 

Don't cast MMO players as fat girlfriendless guys living in their mom's basement. I know more MMO players with good jobs a wife and kids than I do who fit the stereotype. In fact I know more console gamers who fit that stereotype(and no, I'm not saying console gamers fit the stereotype, just pointing out that stereotyping is a bad idea).

 

Not sure who you're addressing here, but just in case it's me, let me put it this way.

 

Yes, stereotyping is bad. Then again, I don't believe I've in any painted any MMO player like that. If people like MMOs, then fine. But I don't. And given how frequently I have to read people talking how crap TSL is, how much Nihilus sucks, and how much Obsidian ruined KotOR - all statements that I happen to feel quite different about - I don't feel particularly compelled to be shy with my own opinion on the matter. I can respect that people have a different opinion, but it does come at the price that people respect mine. Suffice it to say that I don't always feel it's the case, in which case I'm not going to bother explaining why I don't like MMORPGs. If people are not polite, then why bother? It's not as if my argument will change anyone's opinion... Indeed, bitter experience has taught me that blatant flamebait is often the only reward for that.

 

If people like MMOs and consolegames, fair enough. But I don't, and I'm not going to apologize for it either.

 

If it is an MMO, they can spend more time on the development of your character. They can spend more time on developing your connection to the Force. They don't have to slap months/years of training into a cutscene. They can go more in depth into a story that doesn't have to fit on a single dvd. They can have a great deal of content stored on their servers, that just flat out wouldn't fit on a DVD.

 

If you're playing a pure stats-building exercise, sure. Frankly I can't be bothered, though. If I want that, then I play tabletop RPGs, which are still far more interesting, because that at least has a GM dedicated to the specific characters of our game rather than the "one size fit all"-programming of an MMORPG. Basically an MMORPG has no choice but to have a plot and execution that is complete open and simple, so that it can allow for any and all characters. But doing that also means you cannot do certain things, because the developer can assume or dictate nothing about the player's character. I'm still waiting for the time when we have neural networds acting as GMs in MMORPGs. Now, when that happens, then I'll likely be playing, because it'll be a unique experience focusing exclusively on my character every time. That cannot happen now, though.

 

SPRPGs are more like interactive novels. That allows for drama and depth of characters in addition to the fights. In MMORPGs you tend to have only the latter. For example, in an MMORPG, the exile would rock as a character, because he has unique powers. How are you going to convey the burden of being a hole in the force and the personal loss without the cutscenes, lengthy dialogues, etc.? Diablo II was oozing with atmosphere, yet it was still just hack 'n slash. And I hate it when a swarm of insects drop a suit of fullplate armor upon death...

 

The thing that bugs me is the statement:

You can't change a persistent world in an MMO.

False. It just appears to you that it is not possible. However different factions can control planets. For instance: In the Koonda battle, you change the faction in power. You should be able to reverse that, if the two main characters on opposing sides are not killed. If you cause them to flee, you affect power on that planet. Mercenaries control it one day, a group of adventurers come by and liberate Koonda. Koonda is now free again. You can get several added quests for either Mercs or Adare. Jedi related quests could open up for Adare, Sith related could open up for Mercs. Heck you could open up some special jedi quests for when the Mercs are in power. Say liberate Koonda quests. These could be undone by Sith types who want the Jedi out when Adare is in power. This is just ONE idea. Of course we could use this type of example for any number of places affected by the first or second KotOR games. The only difference is whether it is permanent or reversable.

 

So, if I understand you correctly:

 

1. This area is constantly contested (= no persistent change, since the enemy could take over tomorrow)

 

2. Daily battles (how long before that becomes old hat? Sounds fairly boring to me...)

 

3. Constant escalation (mercenaries, then settlers, then jedi, then sith, then... Sure makes me wonder how big the jedi order and the sith armies would have to be keep that up in the long run, and just for one fairly minor planet too. Talk about suspense of disbelief... or even jumping the shark...)

[Tommycat]

Note: You shouldn't doublepost. It's not allowed here. I suggest you simply edit your last post instead. That's what I do.

Meh it was a response to posts that came after I started mine, and I was a bit lazy, My bad.

 

 

 

Not sure who you're addressing here, but just in case it's me, let me put it this way.

 

Yes, stereotyping is bad. Then again, I don't believe I've in any painted any MMO player like that. If people like MMOs, then fine. But I don't. And given how frequently I have to read people talking how crap TSL is, how much Nihilus sucks, and how much Obsidian ruined KotOR - all statements that I happen to feel quite different about - I don't feel particularly compelled to be shy with my own opinion on the matter. I can respect that people have a different opinion, but it does come at the price that people respect mine. Suffice it to say that I don't always feel it's the case, in which case I'm not going to bother explaining why I don't like MMORPGs. If people are not polite, then why bother? It's not as if my argument will change anyone's opinion... Indeed, bitter experience has taught me that blatant flamebait is often the only reward for that.

 

If people like MMOs and consolegames, fair enough. But I don't, and I'm not going to apologize for it either.

Actually this was not directed at you, it was directed at the comment from Henz, that he doesn't do MMO's because he has a girlfriend. But it was also general enough that we should respect eachother's preferences PERIOD. Without the attacks and stereotypes. If he had said it and instead said that he doesn't play MMO's because he isn't a retard it would be just as insulting. I just prefer not to have people using a stereotype to make their point. YOU on the other hand provide REASONS you would rather not have an MMO that stem from personal preference and logical background, so that comment was not directed at you.

 

 

If you're playing a pure stats-building exercise, sure. Frankly I can't be bothered, though. If I want that, then I play tabletop RPGs, which are still far more interesting, because that at least has a GM dedicated to the specific characters of our game rather than the "one size fit all"-programming of an MMORPG. SPRPGs are more like interactive novels. That allows for drama and depth of characters in addition to the fights. In MMORPGs you tend to have only the latter. For example, in an MMORPG, the exile would rock as a character, because he has unique powers. How are you going to convey the burden of being a hole in the force and the personal loss without the cutscenes, lengthy dialogues, etc.? Diablo II was oozing with atmosphere, yet it was still just hack 'n slash. And I hate it when a swarm of insects drop a suit of fullplate armor upon death...

I have to disagree(you knew I would though, haha). An MMO could very well have no stat building at all, but in fact could be finding pieces of a larger puzzle. The fate of Revan for instance. You may find clues to his where-abouts through the entire galaxy. It could be in attempting to discover the path the exile took as she(canonically the Exile is a female.... Yeah I hate that too... Revan would have made more sense as a woman than the Exile) left Machor V. You make choices that lead you more light/dark. You can even learn new techniques from random Jedi/Sith. Heck you could even have it to where you can make Force "Recipes" as I like to think of them(though I won't go into too much detail on it unless you want to know). Loot tables can be fixed so that the right animal drops the right item. If you kill a bug, it could drop, "Insect Exoskeleton" which may be used by a crafter to make "Insect Exoskeleton Armor" so the issue of what creature drops what is merely a tweak to the loot table. Of course any armor that a Cannok drops, I would have to wonder about it's effectiveness haha.

 

So, if I understand you correctly:

Good luck, I hardly understand myself at times... I can tend to ramble on some times.. I mean Jolee might have told ME to shut up.

 

1. This area is constantly contested (= no persistent change, since the enemy could take over tomorrow)

 

Yes, and no. It could be semi-persistent. It may be that you help the Mercs take control of Khoonda, but then if you have a change of heart you can free the people you enslaved before(or like Vader, enslave the people you freed). Of course they could also make it so that after the area has been secured the former leader would go into hiding(week or more until that person shows up again and begins recruiting for the Free Khoonda Alliance). Nothing says you would have to have it constantly open for regime change.

 

2. Daily battles (how long before that becomes old hat? Sounds fairly boring to me...)

Nah It could be a server event. Monthly/bimonthly/semiannual event that changes the landscape for a while. You're over simplifying it. Keep in mind that in an MMO it doesn't have to be free it right now. It could be perform some tasks for people to earn the trust of the Free Khoonda Alliance, then when the time is right join the battle to free Khoonda.

 

 

3. Constant escalation (mercenaries, then settlers, then jedi, then sith, then... Sure makes me wonder how big the jedi order and the sith armies would have to be keep that up in the long run, and just for one fairly minor planet too. Talk about suspense of disbelief... or even jumping the shark...)

Again a Massive oversimplification, and taking the battle of Khoonda way too far. For instance: There's a Jedi enclave there. This means the Jedi are there(well were before somebody felt it would be a good place to leave an arsenal of exploding weapons). When the people are free, and jedi are welcome, you get people who react favorably to jedi and light side force users. When the Mercs and Sith are in power, you get people who fear Jorce users. Though to be honest I thought they placed too much emphasis on Dantooine in the two games to begin with. BUT it was used as an example. It could be done as a Galactic campaign. Turn the planets to Sith rule and the Sith control the galaxy. Free the planets and the sith lose power. I could very easily have used the Talia/Vaklu Czerka/Ithorians Cerka/Wookies Czerka/Sandpeople though those would be only small examples(well maybe not Onderon). Escalations occur through the galaxy. Small planets turning to the will of the Sith... then larger ones, then next thing you know planet cities... But at any rate, we're talking about a game that we have no idea about, and I'm brainstorming ideas. It's easy for me to come up with them, but whether Bioware implements them is out of my control(that is if bioware is even working on the game we're thinking of, Heck they may even be making KotORIII as a SP game and not KotOR the MMO in conjunction with LA and the MMO is Chickenrun).

[lukeiamyourdad]

Except...

 

1. The setting is fixed. You cannot be a jedi fighting in the war without being exiled by the jedi order, nor can you play a major character, since the leaders are Revan and Malak.

 

2. All players will still be only jedi, and so that problem persists.

 

3. The plot itself is fixed and cannot deviate from the historic events as established by the KotOR games or comic books, making for a setting where nothing any player does can alter or evolve the setting (= boring). This means no room for plot development or growth of character. You can grow the stats and nothing more (also = boring).

 

4. Your character can have no future, since we already know virtually any and all jedi and sith are dead within a decade or so.

 

 

1. Nor is it the goal to play a major character. That's the thing with MMORPGs, you don't do that. Then again, I don't need a game to make me feel fantastic and having a vast influence over a virtual world.

 

2. Not all, but mostly certainly. Still, why would it be an inherent problem? As long as the setting allows for such numbers to exist, there is no problem at all.

 

3. Your opinion is unfortunately not fact. If you find something boring, too bad, doesn't mean it's not feasible. Also, as far as I know, you're no political figure or scientist about to make a major breakthrough in cancer research. Your presence in the world will mostly go unnoticed by the vast majority of the population. However, you will influence those close to you. I didn't change the World of Warcraft, but I made some (internet) friends and I'm happy to have at least changed something in their gaming life. That's just me and I'm quite happy of that. If you need to be a god in your world to feel worthy of existence, that's you and it's fine. Still doesn't mean that a KotOR MMO is not feasible.

 

4. Dear god! I will die one day? Never would have believed that...

 

 

Which is precisely why the alleged strength of KotOR as written by Bioware that 1up points to cannot take place in an MMORPG, since you cannot have such backgrounds for the playable characters. Actually more like really simple logic. Perhaps even very simple conclusions.

 

But it can have well written background story about the universe and interesting quests and characters you'll meet. Maybe you're not that interesting, but the universe you adventure in is. That's where strength in writing can help create a believe universe.

 

 

My point exactly. That's why 1up's take on the situation is questionable.

 

Who's talking about 1up? I didn't mention them. SPRPGs and MMORPGs follow different templates and that's my point. Different ways of thinking. I don't seek the same experience when playing Unreal Tournament then when playing Bioshock.

 

 

It might be stronger, but as you say yourself, you cannot apply SPRPG to an MMORPG. Consequently, the plot cannot be as deep.

 

Still, you persist on applying SPRPG logic to MMORPGs even if you claim you don't. You cannot have a plot as deep as an SPRPG, it is not possible, you're seeking different experiences.

 

 

Which all means nothing to me. KotOR games are good for the depth of the plots. They are like interactive novels, where you can affect bits and pieces, but not the larger picture. This means less freedom to play, but also potential for stronger plots with deeper and more complex characters. You cannot have that in an MMORPG, where total freedom to explore is essential.

 

No no, not KotOR games, KotOR RPGs up to now. It's like saying that we shouldn't make any other type of games coming from the Star Wars universe other then the Atari Star Wars Arcade game because that came out first. Nothing else can be made about that universe.

It could also mean no videogame should be made about Star Wars because it's movies first and nothing else but non-interactive moving pictures or it'll be heresy!

 

Actually, "killed" would be the appropriate term. You're basically "solving" the problem by "removing" all non-jedi from the setting...

 

I have a fly that's bugging me. I kill it. It's gone. Problem solved. I don't see what you're talking about. I'm removing all the non-jedi from being playable. That's it.

 

Since that has a certain "master race"-sort of quality to it, you'll forgive me if I do not find the idea particularly compelling or palatable... In fact, I might use the same term you did in reference to that suggestion

 

I honestly don't have any idea what you're talking about.

 

 

 

Perhaps. But it's still better than a KotOR MMORPG.

 

It's actually unfeasible. I thought we were talking about if something can be done or not?

 

 

2. Daily battles (how long before that becomes old hat? Sounds fairly boring to me...)

 

Say, I'm playing Battlefield 1942 on a certain server, 4 maps are on rotation, let's say Tobruk, Omaha Beach, Kharkov and Berlin, in that exact order. I finish Tobruk, Axis won, I stick around for Omaha Beach. Omaha Beach finishes, I decide to stick around for Kharkov. Allies win Kharkov, I absolutely sucked, but hey, I want to get back to good performance with the next map, Berlin. Great, Axis has won Berlin, I'm pumped up and I want to kick more ass so I decide to stay again. What map is that now? Tobruk? Again? Heavens !

 

So, what is my point? That's how multiplayer works.

 

 

Frankly, if it's your opinion that you simply hate MMORPGs and would not play one based on the KotOR universe, fine, no one is putting a bloody gun to your head. However, if you consider your opinion of what is interesting, what you seek in videogames to be norm on which we make them, then I'm sorry, you're only speaking for yourself. An MMORPG based on the KotOR universe is feasible, whether you like it or not.

 

By the way, they did make comic books about the KotOR universe. Hey, that ain't SPRPG. Dear god!

[Henz]

Actually this was not directed at you, it was directed at the comment from Henz, that he doesn't do MMO's because he has a girlfriend. But it was also general enough that we should respect eachother's preferences PERIOD. Without the attacks and stereotypes. If he had said it and instead said that he doesn't play MMO's because he isn't a retard it would be just as insulting. I just prefer not to have people using a stereotype to make their point. YOU on the other hand provide REASONS you would rather not have an MMO that stem from personal preference and logical background, so that comment was not directed at you.

 

Meh, get over it. Stereotypes are fun.

[Negative Sun]

*looks at title of thread*

 

I might be losing my grip on the English language but I don't think it mentions anything about "MMO vs SPRPG", so maybe that topic might be worthy of its own thread

[kotor_freak]

Ditto.

 

From the quote: "interactive entertainment product", I'm hoping it ain't MMO, but that title is so vague that it could mean anything from KotOR3 to 3D Chess!

 

 

 

WOWOWOWOW 3D CHESS!!!!

 

I mean...er....yeah, KotOR3!

 

I wouldn't paticuarly like a KotOR MMORPG, seen as i liked to be the only one who ran around saving the universe I'd hate it if their were another million people doing it, meh, probably hate them too.....I mean, apart from everyone here! Please don't kill me Heh...crap.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, if its an MMO, lets hope that it is not raped and molested once again by $0NY's stinking hutt hands.

 

As for MMO, I don't think there is many roleplaying involved. Most of the MMO I played basically translated into a combination of grinding, item-hunt, and some PvP afterwards. I would hardly call that roleplaying.