Processor Decision - calling all tech geeks!

[Sabretooth]

I've been constructing blueprints for my next computer lately. The one most important and imperative factor here is budget - third world country, middle class, all that stuff. I don't want a top-of-the-line PC, just something that will let me play the newest games decently, and not necessarily at full graphics and 512x AA w/ 145261x39882 pixels resolution and HDR. No.

 

One deal is excellent - a Pentium D 3.0 GHz, dual core. It's coming in damned cheap at Rs. 3800 (app. $95). It sounds good, though most people I know go like "oh noez you must have the core 2 bcoz core2>pentium d lolz". And in comparison, the cheapest Core 2 I saw was at about 2.44 GHz (I think) and at some Rs. 8000 ($200, which isn't bad really, but sort of on the expensive side here). The next was at some 2.66 GHz and that was at Rs. 11,600 which is some rad pricing.

 

I'm thinking that the Pentium D is a better deal, because with some overclocking here and there, I'll be able to boost performance even further. What do you guys think? The Pentium D or the Core 2?

[Astrotoy7]

I hate being called a geek !! Being able to save money doing ones own pc stuff isnt geeky in my book ! Its not like we're all making mind altering glasses

 

To tell truth sabre -CPUs are hitting a bit of a ceiling effect IMO. In building media center pcs....ive gotten dual core 1.8Ghz CPUs to do the work of a pentium D 2.8 of yesteryear. I still run a pentium d dual core in my main media center pc because it was a free salvage.

 

Budget wise the pentium d is probably going to be the cheapest, but the caveat is power use and heat generation. Still, if you have a roomy case and decent fans(s), you'll do fine.

 

Also, please remember, its not ALL about clockspeed. Back in the 90s intel did a super job of duping everyone into the Megahetz Myth. If youve noticed, even they have stopped calling their CPUs by their clockspeed.

 

And of course, Im hardly going to finish without mentioning AMD... a single core 3800 will get most things done - and theyre just as cheap as the pentiums D mentioned, but are a heck of alot cooler and power efficient

 

If your just limited to choosing between pentium D or core2 Im sure most people will recommend the core2.

 

Q can tell you more, but by Core2 Im pretty sure intel had made the shift away from their netburst nightmare.

 

But as you are moreso into gaming then video editing, animating etc, I'd say your choice of gfx card is a more important one than CPU grunt. The 6600 is a nice older card, Im not sure what its AMD equivalent is... x1300 perhaps...

 

good luck

 

mtfbwya

[Sabretooth]

And of course, Im hardly going to finish without mentioning AMD... a single core 3800 will get most things done - and theyre just as cheap as the pentiums D mentioned, but are a heck of alot cooler and power efficient

But won't this thing get outdated in like, two months? (hyperbole!)

 

But as you are moreso into gaming then video editing, animating etc, I'd say your choice of gfx card is a more important one than CPU grunt. The 6600 is a nice older card, Im not sure what its AMD equivalent is... x1300 perhaps...mtfbwya

That's true and the 8600/8500s are damn cheap here, so that isn't much of a problem. The 8800 GTs are up there, at about 10,000 bucks so that's a no there.

 

I just can't decide what to throw in as a processor.

[Q]

I can't stress this enough: DO NOT get a Pentium D. Netburst is as dead as mutton.

 

These are the cheapest C2Ds available ATM. They're not called Core 2 Duo, but that's what they are. They have less cache (1MB), but the cores are still 100% C2D and they have the same overclocking potential (3GHZ+) as their more expensive bretheren. You shouldn't notice the lack of cache in most situations.

 

Make sure that the motherboard you get has the IP35 chipset and not the older P965 one. IP35 makes overclocking the cheaper C2Ds much easier.

 

The video card should be the very last component that you buy. Maybe by then the price-gouging of the 8800GT will have stopped, as it's now facing competition from the ATI HD 3870 (which you might also want to consider). DON'T buy an 8600. They're pure crap.

[Astrotoy7]

my suggestion of the 3800 as a cheaper and more efficient alternative to a pentium D is a valid one !

 

tsk to me though >>I should have asked this at the start, though as I know sabrez I hazarded a guess :

 

**What games and apps are you intending you play/use. What rez will you game at.

 

I *hate* it when people throw a "OMGz YOU GOTTA GET THIS" without asking that question. Theyre moreso talking about themselves than offering advice.

 

I put the question to Q. Does anyone *really* need to overclock to 3GHz ?? Ive been using a 3GHz CPU for a little while and aprt from some quicker encodes, havent really noticed am awe inspiring jump from when I used a x2 2.4Ghz CPU. The ceiling effect is here, let us rejoice and put our money instead into a decent GPU or screen

 

Q is a very knowledgable fellow, but i dont think he is aware that $200 US isnt a 'budget' option to alot of people. Sorry Q. I wasnt able to afford decent kit since until after I was about 27 years old(5 years ago), so know whats it about to have low end stuff, or none at all...

 

I would indeed recommend a 8600 to my friend sabre, as long as it is one of the 8600 512mbs floating about - a good $80US cheaper than the ATI 3870.

 

Heres the EVGA version of the 8600GT 512Mb.

 

I think for its cost, its an OK enough card

 

mtfbwya

[Sabretooth]

I would indeed recommend a 8600 to my friend sabre, as long as it is one of the 8600 512mbs floating about - a good $80US cheaper than the ATI 3870.

 

Turns out I've found a good deal with a couple of Core 2s, so that's a problem solved.

 

Now for graphic cards! Yes sir, Astro I speak of the 512 ones. Qliveur, why the hatred against them? Also, I checked the pricing for the 8800GT, which is Rs. 17,000. That's $425, goddamnit. No go there.

[Astrotoy7]

while Q eats caviar in his Ivory castle, we will source a nice budget card for you sabrez...never fear

 

mtfbwya

[Q]

Sabre was talking about getting a Pentium D. I think that either an X2 or a C2D would be a better option. Since you already mentioned the X2, I thought I'd point out the cheapest C2Ds and let him make his decision from there. Either one would be far better than a Pentium D. And we're not talking about a ~$100.00US or even $50.00US price difference between the E2xx and the X2. At the most we're talking $25.00US. And I mentioned the 3GHZ overclock potential of E2xx because it's there. It's up to Sabre whether he wants to take advantage of it or not.

 

Sabre pointed out that he was going to use his new rig for gaming. Based on this statement I thought it prudent to point out that the 8600 is not a good choice for gaming because it is generally outperformed by cards from the previous generation which is why it's so cheap.

 

At this point in time there will be cards out very shortly that will smoke (as in 2X+ the performance of) the 8600 and 2600 for the same price because of the recent refresh that both companies are releasing right now. That's why I recommended that he buy the video card last. The situation can literally change overnight (and has ). At the very least Sabre will be able to get an 8600 for far cheaper than he can right now. But chances are that he'll find something a lot better for the same price.

Qliveur, why the hatred against them?

Ask Ztalker. He has one.

[Sabretooth]

Sabre pointed out that he was going to use his new rig for gaming. Based on this statement I thought it prudent to point out that the 8600 is not a good choice for gaming because it is generally outperformed by cards from the previous generation which is why it's so cheap.

Well, like I said before, I don't really plan on playing at the highest resolution possible, with all the settings at highest. Medium would be enough for me. I don't think the 8600 is so bad in that respect, is it?

 

I see what you say about the 8800GT, though. I'll see about the price, though. I don't want to wait a lot any more, because I've been waiting since what, 2004? Summer next year, most likely. If the 8800GTs drop price here big-time, I'll go for 'em, certainly.

[Q]

Astro was correct: I didn't ask the pertinent questions.

 

What kind of monitor do you have or are planning to get? And therefore: at what resolution do you plan to game?

 

What's your planned budget for just the video card?

 

And with what's going on in the video card industry right now, prices will stabilize in a month or less, so the wait won't be too long.

 

 

Oh, crap! Hard drive. Just make sure it's a 7200.10 or .11 (look for the words "perpendicular recording") and you should be fine. Seagate is the preferred brand, but also keep in mind that the new Maxtor drives are just rebadged Seagates with a shorter warranty (Seagate recently bought Maxtor).

 

 

Just buy all of the other components before you buy a video card, and when you're ready, come back and we'll see what kind of deals are out there before you buy one.

[stingerhs]

my recommendations for right now: wait till December.

 

by then, AMD should be finished with the shipping of their new 790X and 790FX boards (which have Hypertransport 3.0, PCI-E 2.0, and very low power requirments). they should also have at least a couple of the new Phenoms on hand, but you can still go for the Athlon 5000+ Black Edition in a pinch.

 

also, i'm much more impressed with the price/performance of the Radeon 3800 series than i am with the 8800 GT and the new 8800 GTS. the performance of two 3850 cards in CrossfireX is fantastic, and it costs about the same as a single 8800 GT. you could also pop for a single 3870 card for about $50 more and have performance that is on par with the current 2900XT with much, much lower power consumption.

 

if you noticed, i keep pushing the low power benefits. lower power means that you can run a 450-550W PSU which will save you money in both short term and long term. in that arena, AMD has Intel beat, and ATI now has Nvidia beat with the new 3800 cards.

[Q]

Not to mention far less heat generation.

 

With the price gouging going on right now, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the 8800GT. Stingerhs is right. The 3800 series is a great value ATM.

 

Here's a comparison of the HD 3850 to the 8600GTS. At present, the two cards sell for about the same price.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz.. purely in the interest of giving sabre the full story re- the information being presented to him...

 

*Anandtech ran a review on x86 Vista with 4GB DDR2 >> why bother ? do they know what they are doing ?? lolz (no 2gb/3gb comparison numbers to prove their point either)

*There didnt seem to be a comparison to the 8600GT 512, which Ive mentioned

here's some numbers on that HERE

>>There is no 38xx series comparison there, but given the proviso that a 256mb 3850 is at least $US 40 (1600 Rs to sabre) more expensive, I know what I'd go with

 

*Considering that sabrez does most of his gaming at 1024/1280, Id say that the 8600GT 512MB is just as suited, given the price restrictions.

 

Also 'waiting for something better' in the GPU game is a fruitless exercise. i dont think there is a hardware component in any context that is so constantly evolving and obsoleting itself so quickly, especially at the low-mid end. Now that crysis(and Im sure other titles to follow) has thrown down the gauntlet to even the high end components, nvidia and ATI are on the gravy train to paradise ! .....At our expense of course

 

Ive decided to 'lock in' my current cpu config for about 10-12 months now. I dont see current or even immediately upcoming hardware getting anywhere near what I want it to do (eg. crysis at 2560 x 1600). In the interim, I'll be fiddling on my HTC Shift (the greatest gizmo in the world), and going to visit the sphinx

 

mtfbwya

[Sabretooth]

*Considering that sabrez does most of his gaming at 1024/1280, Id say that the 8600GT 512MB is just as suited, given the price restrictions.

Exactly my point. I'm going to get a 17" screen (sorry, Lord Astro, Duke of HugeLCDland ) and play comfortably at the above mentioned resolution.

 

I think the 8800GT or the 8600GT w/ 512 RAM will be decent enough for at least a couple of years in that respect. I'll probably wait for the 8800GT to drop price.

[stingerhs]

>>There is no 38xx series comparison there, but given the proviso that a 256mb 3850 is at least $US 40 (1600 Rs to sabre) more expensive, I know what I'd go with

 

*Considering that sabrez does most of his gaming at 1024/1280, Id say that the 8600GT 512MB is just as suited, given the price restrictions.

wtf??

 

how could you possibly recommend an 8600 card over a 3850?? there is absolutely no possible way that the 8600 card could ever match the 3850 in performance even with the difference in VRAM. heck, i would pick an old X1950 Pro 256MB over an 8600GTS 512MB card any day of the week much less an 8600 GT. peformance-wise, the 8600 is laughable especially on the game you've chosen to compare peformance numbers on: Crysis.

 

if he's playing at 1024/1280, there's not going to be some magic performance benefit from using an inferior card with more VRAM because it just simply doesn't exist. its like putting a bigger gas tank on a little 4 cylinder car and then expecting it to outrun a sports car. its just not going to happen especially given that AMD pulled out all the stops with the features. the 8600 isn't even going to match the 3850 in multimedia apps.

 

at the $150+ price segment, the only competition the 3850 has is from the previous generation Radeon X1950's. Nvidia has absolutely nothing that can match that card when it comes to performance right now nor in their future plans. say it with me: NOTHING.

 

if you want to start comparing apples to apples, you need to start comparing the 8800 GT to the 3850. that's a fair comparison until you start talking price. then, there is no comparison as you will get a much better price/performance ratio with the 3850.

 

Astro, your fanboy-ism is astounding.

[Crow_Nest]

I agree with stingerhs. 8800GT 512MB > every graphics card on the market right now. Since when have you seen a $250 video card perform like a $500 one? Its because of the 8800GT that makes purchase of a GTS or GTX and even a HD3850 look stupid. Get a 8800GT, pay the extra cash for it and wait for it if its outta stock. It'll do you better in a long run.

 

Sabretooth, theres no way a 8600GT 512MB can last you for a couple of years. Its games like crysis that raises the bar for graphics and system requirements forever.

[Astrotoy7]

stinger, I like your analogy, but all I want to see are numbers! It's irrelevant who is a fanboy of what - its irrelevant to quantifying the cost vs benefit of each option.

 

That would be more helpful rather than churlish "say it with me people!!" chants....

 

Separate from my personal preferences, I like to present people with different options for a more informed consideration of purchased decisions. It is best to be able to truly say "I have considered ALL options" rather than "this guy said I should get that - because HE has it/wants to get it !!" (lolz infinitum)

 

I really do think at 1024/1280 - aiming at a 60fps turnover for most games, apples are always going to be apples !!

 

And once again, the price point being an important factor seems to be lost, in relation to the OPs build plans. $50US is a heck of alot for some people. Im not truly sure in sabrez instance, but there are peopple in certain nations who make that money in a month. Hence, a $150 apple may indeed be more attractive than a $200 apple, despite how superior the $200 apple may be in more demanding applications.

 

at Crow - is there a card that will last anyone 2 years to play the high end games... I wonder how that 6600 that was so 1337 back in 04-05 will stand up today

 

information sets ya free, ya'll

 

btw, I wonder what all this has to do with sabrez processor decision....

 

Sorry sabrez, your thread has been hijacked by a good ole "what graphics card is da bestest" jamoboree

 

mtfbwya

[stingerhs]

^^^^

yeesh, what a cop out.

 

here's some benchmarks from Tom's Hardware with their review of the new Radeon 3800 cards.

 

Crysis

Oblivion

World in Conflict

 

full article here

 

if that's not enough, then consider this:

Newegg pricing for Radeon 3850's

Newegg pricing for GeForce 8600 GTS 512MB

 

in short, Radeon 3850 > GeForce 8600 GTS. case closed.

 

as for processors, Tom's Hardware was finally able to get their hands on the new Phenom 9700. in short, performance isn't quite on par with the cheapest Core 2 quad-core, but the good news is that the 9700 is cheaper than the quad-core which makes it a more attractive buy if you're looking for quad-core on your AM2 or AM2+ mobo.

 

the article also details a number of other offerings from AMD that are coming out at the same time. this includes the awesome Overdrive utility and the 770, 790X, and 790FX Northbridge mobos. more info here

[Darth333]

I'm with stingerhs on this. Right now, there is no single reason to buy a 8600gt with a useless 512MB of vram. If money is really an issue and the 8600gt is the only remaining choice, then it it still possible to save some money and opt for the 256MB version as the card is too weak to even make use of that extra vram (a 8500gt with 1gb of vram anyone? )

 

There is no way Saberz will be able to do 60fps in recent games with that card, even at 1024/1280 unless he plays with low options...which also means a very shot lifespan for the card... (Example of Crysis benchmarks -based on average fps- at that resolution at low, medium and high settings: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-394-2496-93.html...interesting fact to notice from those benchmarks: at low & medium settings the vram amount doesn't make any difference and show that 512mb of Vram are useless unless you play at high settings and the 8600gt can't simply allow you to do that.

 

 

The Ati 3850 beats the 8600gts (superior to the gt) and even the previous generation ATI/AMD top card, the x1950xtx :

 

Benchmarks: (the 8600gt isn't even mentioned as it is an entry level card and can't even compete with those cards)

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=8

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/15/amd_radeon_hd_3800/index.html

http://www.clubic.com/article-85538-5-amd-ati-radeon-hd-3850-3870-rv670.html (in French but the graphs speak for themselves)

 

The only 3 cards that are worth looking to at this time based on quality/price are the two ATI/AMD 3870 and 3850 and the 8800gt IMHO. Of course, if money is an issue (I have no idea of how much the 3850 costs in India but here they aren't much more than the 8600gt and they cost less than the gts) then the 8600gt can be chosen as an entry level (and not midrange) solution but don't expect that it will last very long and that it will give 60fps in recent games...it may end up costing more in the end.

 

btw, I wonder what all this has to do with sabrez processor decision....

 

Reread the thread

 

 

Turns out I've found a good deal with a couple of Core 2s, so that's a problem solved.

 

Now for graphic cards!

Edit: @ tk below... lol but as a somewhat "aesthetic-obsessed geekess" (if that's possible!) I still think that you should hide those wires: they look ugly

[tk102]

I hate being called a geek !! Being able to save money doing ones own pc stuff isnt geeky in my book ! Its not like we're all making mind altering glasses

 

You know you love it Astro.

[Q]

Ahh, vindication.

 

Any other time I would agree with you, Astro, but not right after a product refresh like this one. The new midrange has the same performance as the old top-line, and the old midrange is now, well, crap. The 8600 series, along with ATI's 2600, has never been good since the day it was released. Now, there's no reason to buy one whatsoever.

 

It would be like recommending a 6200 or 7300 a year ago. I can not in good conscience do it.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz @ tk.

 

Yes! Thank you for the numbers D333. I guess sabrez options are more well defined now.

 

So, with the limited price range, where the 3850 is out of the question, what is their left to recommend ? Dont say the 6200TC

 

mtfbwya

[Sabretooth]

Yes! Thank you for the numbers D333. I guess sabrez options are more well defined now.

These numbers are making my brain hurt. Is this revenge on me for calling of you geeks?

 

I've been convinced to stay away from the 8600, thankfully, and will now wait for the 8800GT to drop price. For some reason, I have heaploads of patience.

[Darth333]

Is this revenge on me for calling of you geeks?

The plot has been uncovered!

[Astrotoy7]

These numbers are making my brain hurt....

 

tk's freaky-geeky glasses are making my brain hurt !!!

 

By the time the 8800GT etc falls in price, your eager and wealthy colleagues here will be urging you to buy <insert current mid end tech in 12 months time>

 

Rather than get into fruitless debates about low-mid end kit again, Im going to say this from now on in all applicable instances :

 

get a part time job, or go on a crime spree Theres no other way for a middle class student to get 1337 kit.

 

mtfbwya