Science & Christianity- debate over everything

[Arcesious]

Okay first off let me say that I’d like this thread to be a civilized discussion without flaming or people getting mad. Let’s not do the conventional atheist vs. theist routine. Let’s put EVERYTHING out on the table and begin with the simple process of elimination. I’m not your conventional average Christian.

 

My ideas on this are different than I bet you’d expect in some aspects.

For example: I agree that earth is very old and that evolution is partially true. I don’t believe humans evolved from apes though. So… let’s start with the beginning.

 

Universal creation. Factors are too complex and perfect for this to be a random occurrence. The big bang may actually in a sense be true. The bible never said in exactly what form God created the heavens (universe) and the earth. God could have made a big explosion and controlled it to create the desired conditions. Or in some other way. The big bang couldn’t have been formed without something to create it, matter and energy cannot come out of nothing ness, except from God. God is the only answer to the universe’s creation. Every atheist says they’ll eventually find an explanation that disproves God, but have they yet? No. Until they actually do, I guess God is the only possible explanation, and I bet they’ll never find it as long as they don’t stop to consider that a creator might be the only answer to their unresolved equations. In genesis, the world day is a mistranslation!

 

The word in Greek and Hebrew that was translated to day also can translate to age or period, but day is the dominantly most used form of the translation. Science proves that Earth and the universe must be old. Therefore human error has translated the bible to say that the universe and earth were created in 7 days, where it should instead say 7 ages or 7 periods of time. Ages and periods of time are undefined, but we know that there were seven of them. Seven phases. The bible says that every creature will reproduce after it’s own kind, not another. How could scientists ever say it’s even possible that there can be cross-species breeding? How can a bird breed with a reptile? It doesn’t make sense. Sure there’s natural selection, the bible says that God gave all creatures, including humans, the ability to adapt.

 

Evolution in the bible is called adaptation, so the bible actually partially agrees with evolution in the natural selection part of it. How could tens of thousands of very complex species have come forth without a creator? Everyone knows it’s impossible for life to come out of a pool of chemicals. The factors are impossible. But when you think about it, god created man from dust. What if what I’ve just said was false was true, and God was the factor that caused the chemicals in the dust and goo to become life? Who knows? It might be possible that that is the case. People who wrote the bible don’t have the understanding of deciphering it we have today. They didn’t understand science as we did, but we have explanations for what they didn’t understand now. Explanations that may only further prove it. As you’re reading this, I want you to know that I’ve given you some ground in this. I’ve somewhat agreed with evolution and abiogenesis in this. Now, Christianity wasn’t an official religion until after Jesus Christ died on the cross, I know.

 

But there were prophets such as Moses, who wrote part of the bible before that time, and Christianity wasn’t actually named, but it was a religion. Judaism may have come first, but Christianity is a purified version. Okay this part is rather complex, bear with me; I’ll explain everything as I go.

 

The Story of Job actually comes before Exodus, which is where the story of the great flood came. In Job it mentions creatures such as the Leviathan, which was a name the people back then had for a dinosaur. The bible pretty much discretely says that humans lived during the time of dinosaurs. And the great flood in exodus is what caused the dinosaurs to die out. Imagine this. In the bible it says god separated the two waters, the sky and the oceans in genesis. As this time, earth was tropical everywhere. Even at the poles.

 

Now, either the air pressure in earth’s atmosphere or some other gas heavier than water was in the atmosphere. And the atmosphere actually was filled with tons and tons of water, enough to flood the entire earth. Somehow, the pressure of the atmosphere at that time or some other force, likely a gas that held the water up in the atmosphere somehow did that. Now, a force from God or some other outside force causes the water in the atmosphere to collapse, and flood the entire earth, covering every continent, and covering the highest point on earth by at last 20 feet. Now, Moses and his family survive this flood on the ark, along with tons of different animals, which is in the frozen mountains of Turkey. Obviously the water pressure must be so great that it kills even the aquatic dinosaurs. The bible says they were on the ark 40 days and 40 nights.

 

I guess God likes the number 40. Now, I bet that earth’s rotation around the sun entered the winter season, and this ended up being the first winter, and from the forces of both a rapidly changing climate on earth and the cold covering the earth, an Ice Age likely occurred. Over time the ice slowly melted away to the poles and the Ice age probably ended. Moses, his family, and all the animals and human descendants from Moses’ family likely lived though the ice age, but didn’t write in the bible about it. Now it makes sense why the ark is in the FROZEN Mountains of turkey huh? Plant life probably came back when the earth froze, life that could withstand the ice age conditions, which explains the dove bringing an olive branch back to Moses. I’m not sure if I’m write about this, but aren’t olive trees able to survive cold weather conditions?

 

Morals. Reason. Truth. Common Sense. Angles and Demons. Sin. These are the more delicate areas that seem to others like superstitious.

God created the angels and heaven before he created the universe itself. Heaven is likely another dimension. (Pure speculation of course, I have no proof whatsoever of that ‘fact’, so I won’t try to go prove it)

 

He created the angels with free will. Lucifer, Satan; wanted to be like god, and god cast him down. 1/3rd of the angels followed Satan. Satan was an archangel, like Gabriel. He is not a red guy with horns and a pitchfork. In fact, he looks like a beautiful and majestic angel. He is the master of deception, of lies, of twisting words, of evil itself. The demons are actually also angels. Butt hey are evil and under his command. He and his demons are the little suggestive voice in the back of your head that likely corrupt your conscience to suggest to you to do bad things. But it is your choice to do so. Now you might think it’s your own mind and your thoughts that suggest you do something bad, but Satan is the master of deception, he does this so perfectly that you don’t even realize it’s him suggesting that you sin. Is it not so hard to for once think it’s possible that other higher beings created by God exist among us? Beings who know your every wish, desire, what makes you mad, what can drive you to insanity, or what can give you joy and happiness? (Rhetorical)

 

Now God doesn’t make mistakes, he's God. This was all part of his plan. He is God. God must have a purpose. He can’t just be God and do nothing.

 

Everything must have a purpose and reason for existing. This is all a grand plan of his. He creates angles that can be corrupted by their own free will, and evil is born for a purpose. He then creates the universe and us. We are like a Jury. God is the Judge. Out of his perfection he wanted other beings to be able to experience what it is like to be like him. Therefore he created us.

 

The angels were not meant for this purpose. He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross to save us from our sins. All except for one sin- not believing in him. This may seem like a bunch of superstition, but in fact it is a grand plan.

 

How else could it possibly be more perfect for us to debate like a jury on this earth. The conditions are perfect. Good and evil combat on this earth with such perfection. God didn’t make us perfect for obvious reasons. We are like a jury hat will experience sin and good, and in the end such experience will lead those of us who believe in God and Jesus to experience perfection for eternity. Heaven and hell… Don’t believe and you go to hell, believe and you go to heaven. Typical of any religion huh? No. It’s not that simple. I don’t believe in God and Jesus because I want to go to heaven instead of being condemned to hell, I believe because I know it’s true. I believe because I repect God.

 

God is God. He is above everyone and everything. He deserves respect. Who are we to challenge the truth and power of a being with infinite power and understanding that makes our minds seem like the minds of fools? We can’t possibly compete with God. He knows what’s good for us and many of us are so deceived by Satan that we don’t know what’s good for us. We are of a curious nature, seeking out the unknown and debating what is true. What else could be more perfect to debate Good and evil and all else? Wouldn’t you be happy serving God in heaven, having ultimate understanding just like him and living eternally in perfect content? It’s not something we can comprehend. We debate it because it requires some faith. God made the situation like this for a reason. He loves us. But not with conventional love.

 

It’s called Agape Love (agape is a Greek word) Agape means unconditional love. Despite our sin and corruption he understands and graces us out, for it was his plan all along for us to experience sin. There is something called the great white throne judgment. This will occur after the tribulation, which is after the rapture. When all believers on this earth disappear into thin air, hopefully some of you who will not be persuaded by what I’ve said will finally realize I was right if you don’t agree with me now.

 

The white throne judgment is where God will judge everyone; those who believed in him will go to heaven and those who didn’t will go to hell. As simple as that. If you don’t like it I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is. This will likely be debated over and over again, until the rapture and all believers on earth on gone and unable to debate again. There will be false prophets after we disappear. There will be an antichrist. A person who everyone will love and want as a leader. He will unite the world and create one world belief. The tribulation will last 7 years.

 

Many great natural disasters will occur, and the first 3 ½ years will be peaceful. The last 3 ½ years full of war and destruction. When this time occurs, and I’m proven correct, despite all you will have debated against me to disprove me, I will be proven right and the final piece will finally click into place. This antichrist will deceive many. I am warning you of this. It is your choice whether to believe me or not. This may be debated as anyone sees fit, but my point still stands.

 

Other religions. We can debate that too. I say Christianity is right and every other religion is false. As simple as that, but I can’t prove it totally. That’s why the bible says you have to have faith. Pretty bold words I guess but that’s why we’re going to debate this aren’t we? I won’t force this on you. I infact just want to debate this because I need a bit of a challenge for once.

 

Who knows? I might lose this debate, but as I aid, if the tribulation and rapture do happen, no matter how this debate turns out my point will have been correct. We’ll just have to see what happens. Also calling you atheists… it’s such a strong term. But I guess it’s the only term I can refer to you as. I just want you to know I hold nothing against you and I hope we can still be friends and our opinions of each other don’t change for the worse.

 

I don’t want this DISCUSSION to become a flame war, so seriously let’s be civilized. I’ll be civilized, unlike how I was in the past a few months ago. Anything I forgot to mention will probably come up in this debate anyways, and I should be ready for it this time. I hope there are some Christians out there to help me out in this debate, because I’m not a one-man army. In fact, if I don’t prove anything, I won’t be cynical when this debate ends and saying something like “we’ll just have to see who has the last laugh”. So don’t’ worry about that. Besides, everyone is here because debating’s fun, right?

The word count of this entire post is over 2300… lolz

[Web Rider]

thanks for formating. After putting the effort into reading it all, I refuse to discuss this with you. good day.

[Arcesious]

um... why not?

[Web Rider]

um... why not?

 

Because:

A: I don't have the knoweledge needed to address alot of this.

B: the latter half of it is "try to disprove me that the Second Coming is going to happen!" And that's something I have no desire to due.

C: there are many, many, logical fallacies in here that simply make my head hurt reading.

[Arcesious]

eh, okay. fine by me i guess. i've got a headache form debating in other threads anyways, so i might as well take a break.

[mur'phon]

You may want to splitt that text wall into paragraphs, makes it easier to read.

 

Universal creation. Factors are too complex and perfect for this to be a random occurrence.

 

Even if the odds of the universe forming the way it has is 10^gogol, it is still possible.

 

The big bang may actually in a sense be true. The bible never said in exactly what form God created the heavens (universe) and the earth. God could have made a big explosion and controlled it to create the desired conditions. Or in some other way. The big bang couldn’t have been formed without something to create it, matter and energy cannot come out of nothing ness, except from God.

 

So, let me see if I understand you corectly. Matter and energy can't come out of nothing, but God created matter and energy out of nothing? What created God then? Did God came out of nothing to create the big bang out of nothing? Sorry, but this isn't making any sence to me

 

God is the only answer to the universe’s creation.

 

I have yet to see you prove it, though I hope you can.

 

Every atheist says they’ll eventually find an explanation that disproves God, but have they yet? No. Until they actually do, I guess God is the only possible explanation, and I bet they’ll never find it as long as they don’t stop to consider that a creator might be the only answer to their unresolved equations.

 

Scientists can only make hypothesises based on testable theories/evidence. Until someone can prove the existence of a god/gods, they won't be a part of a hypothesis conserning the creation of the universe. Atheist tend to need scientific evidence in order to believe something, god/gods will be considered an answer as soon as someone makes a testable hypthesis of the excistence of a god/gods, and after enough time it isn't disproved.

 

In genesis, the world day is a mistranslation! The word in Greek and Hebrew that was translated to day also can translate to age or period, but day is the dominantly most used form of the translation. Science proves that Earth and the universe must be old. Therefore human error has translated the bible to say that the universe and earth were created in 7 days, where it should instead say 7 ages or 7 periods of time.

 

Or maybe it was suposed to say he/she/it created it in seven days. Don't get me wrong, you may very vell be right, but you don't know it was mistranslated.

 

The bible says that every creature will reproduce after it’s own kind, not another. How could scientists ever say it’s even possible that there can be cross-species breeding? How can a bird breed with a reptile?

 

Luckily, evolution dosen't require different species to mate, though maybe you weren't getting at evolution.

 

How could tens of thousands of very complex species have come forth without a creator? Everyone knows it’s impossible for life to come out of a pool of chemicals. The factors are impossible.

 

Why is it impossible? It hasn't been done yet, but no one knows if it's possible or not. As for the amount of species, you only need one to come from chemicals, the rest can evolve from it (if you believe in evolution).

 

But when you think about it, god created man from dust. What if what I’ve just said was false was true, and God was the factor that caused the chemicals in the dust and goo to become life? Who knows? It might be possible that that is the case.

 

Wait, first you said life from chems are impossible, now you say it is possible if God helped? I'm sorry, but I need to know a) what God did that the chems weren't capable without him/her/it, b) evidence for he/she/it actually doing it, and c) proof of it being the christian god and not another.

 

The bible pretty much discretely says that humans lived during the time of dinosaurs.

 

I would like to see where it says that. And would you mind telling me why c-14 estimates put the dinosaurs on earth milions of years before humans?

 

And the great flood in exodus is what caused the dinosaurs to die out. Imagine this. In the bible it says god separated the two waters, the sky and the oceans in genesis. As this time, earth was tropical everywhere. Even at the poles. Now, either the air pressure in earth’s atmosphere or some other gas heavier than water was in the atmosphere. And the atmosphere actually was filled with tons and tons of water, enough to flood the entire earth. Somehow, the pressure of the atmosphere at that time or some other force, likely a gas that held the water up in the atmosphere somehow did that. Now, a force from God or some other outside force causes the water in the atmosphere to collapse, and flood the entire earth, covering every continent, and covering the highest point on earth by at last 20 feet. Now, Moses and his family survive this flood on the ark, along with tons of different animals, which is in the frozen mountains of Turkey. Obviously the water pressure must be so great that it kills even the aquatic dinosaurs. The bible says they were on the ark 40 days and 40 nights. I guess God likes the number 40. Now, I bet that earth’s rotation around the sun entered the winter season, and this ended up being the first winter, and from the forces of both a rapidly changing climate on earth and the cold covering the earth, an Ice Age likely occurred. Over time the ice slowly melted away to the poles and the Ice age probably ended. Moses, his family, and all the animals and human descendants from Moses’ family likely lived though the ice age, but didn’t write in the bible about it. Now it makes sense why the ark is in the FROZEN Mountains of turkey huh? Plant life probably came back when the earth froze, life that could withstand the ice age conditions, which explains the dove bringing an olive branch back to Moses. I’m not sure if I’m write about this, but aren’t olive trees able to survive cold weather conditions?

 

I hope you have some evidence of this, because no geological evidence I have seen so far sugest anything of what you describe. And if you wondered: no, olive trees dosen't like cold weather that much.

 

Is it not so hard to for once think it’s possible that other higher beings created by God exist among us?

 

It's hard for me to believe anything without evidence.

 

Now God doesn’t make mistakes. This was all part of his plan. He is God. God must have a purpose. He can’t just be God and do nothing. Everything must have a purpose and reason for existing. This is all a grand plan of his. He creates angles that can be corrupted by their own free will, and evil is born for a purpose. He then creates the universe and us. We are like a Jury. God is the Judge. Out of his perfection he wanted other beings to be able to experience what it is like to be like him. Therefore he created us. The angles were not meant for this purpose. He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross to save us from our sins.

Again, I need evidence to believe anything.

 

All except for one sin- not believing in him.

 

So, Gandhi goes to hell for not believing in him, while Richard Lionheart gets a ticket to heaven? Seems quite unfair to me

 

This may seem like a bunch of superstition, but in fact it is a grand plan. How else could it possibly be more perfect for us to debate like a jury on this earth. The conditions are perfect. Good and evil combat on this earth with such perfection.

 

So, can you point out the black and white warriors for me? I seem to only be able to see shades of grey.

 

I believe because I know it’s true

 

How do you know?

 

God is God. He is above everyone and everything. He deserves respect. Who are we to challenge the truth and power of a being with infinite power and understanding that makes our minds seem like the minds of fools? We can’t possibly compete with God. He knows what’s good for us and many of us are so deceived by Satan that we don’t know what’s good for us. We are of a curious nature, seeking out the unknown and debating what is true. What else could be more perfect to debate Good and evil and all else? Wouldn’t you be happy serving God in heaven, having ultimate understanding just like him and living eternally in perfect content? It’s not something we can comprehend. We debate it because it requires some faith. God made the situation like this for a reason. He loves us. But not with conventional love. It’s called Agape Love (agape is a Greek word) Agape means unconditional love. Despite our sin and corruption he understands and graces us out, for it was his plan all along for us to experience sin. There is something called the great white throne judgment. This will occur after the tribulation, which is after the rapture.

 

I'm probably getting tiresome, but evidence please

 

When all believers on this earth disappear into thin air, hopefully some of you who will not be persuaded by what I’ve said will finally realize I was right

 

Sure, if it happens I'll curse myself for not being convinced without any evidence shown, not terribly afraid of it happening though

 

When this time occurs, and I’m proven correct

 

Thats a rather bad attitude man, correct me if I'm wrong but you are essentially sayng " I am right no matter what, I don't care if I don't have evidence, I'm still right"

 

Other religions. We can debate that too. I say Christianity is right and every other religion is false. As simple as that, but I can’t prove it. That’s why the bible says you have to have faith. Pretty bold words I guess but that’s why we’re going to debate this aren’t we? I won’t force this on you. I infact just want to debate this because I need a bit of a challenge for once. Who knows? I might lose this debate, but as I aid, if the tribulation and rapture do happen, no matter how this debate turns out my point will have been correct. We’ll just have to see what happens.

 

Changing from *when* to *if* is an improvement, though I hardly see the point in debating with someone who have no evidence suporting him, yet seem to be unable to considder that he/she may be wrong.

 

Also calling you atheists… it’s such a strong term. But I guess it’s the only term I can refer to you as. I just want you to know I hold nothing against you and I hope we can still be friends and our opinions of each other don’t change.

 

I do not hold anything against religious people in general, and my oppinion of them hasn't changed. My oppinion of you is another matter, it hasn't improved to put it mildly.

 

I don’t want this DISCUSSION to become a flame war, so seriously let’s be civilized. I’ll be civilized, unlike how I was in the past a few months ago.

 

Untill you seem to be able to think critically and question your own belief (you don't have to change it), I don't see the point in discussing anything. On a side note, I'll be surprised if this dosen't get locked/ignored before long.

 

I hope there are some Christians out there to help me out in this debate

 

No worries, there are enough christians here, wether they will support you is another matter.

 

Besides, everyone is here because debating’s fun, right?

 

And to have ones oppinions/beliefs questioned and pherhaps changed, to learn something new, and to talk to people from al over the world. You May want to keep that in mind

[Ray Jones]

I learned the other day that circa 75000 years ago some tiki tiki volcano erupted and darkened earth's sky for about 6 years, thus causing a near global catastrophe, which was also affecting the African continent with droughts and stuff.

At that time most humans, if not all, were living on the African land. It is assumed (and genetic tests indicate that) that most of them died as a indirect result of the eruption, and that all humans of today are ancestors of not more than 1000 humans who somehow survived that scenario.

It is also given that our genetic code has not changed over the past 35000 years.

[Arcesious]

Quote: So, let me see if I understand you corectly. Matter and energy can't come out of nothing, but God created matter and energy out of nothing? What created God then? Did God came out of nothing to create the big bang out of nothing? Sorry, but this isn't making any sence to me

 

Quote:

Scientists can only make hypothesises based on testable theories/evidence. Until someone can prove the existence of a god/gods, they won't be a part of a hypothesis conserning the creation of the universe. Atheist tend to need scientific evidence in order to believe something, god/gods will be considered an answer as soon as someone makes a testable hypthesis of the excistence of a god/gods, and after enough time it isn't disproved.

 

Answer: Still, every bit of science you ever have tested without includign the possiblity of God has always turned otu the same. it doesn't work. the only real explanation anyone can truly come to at this moment is God is the answer, whther they liek it or not.

 

Quote: Or maybe it was suposed to say he/she/it created it in seven days. Don't get me wrong, you may very vell be right, but you don't know it was mistranslated.

 

Answer: Yeah i know i can't be sure of that but it makes more sense doesn't it?

 

Quote: Wait, first you said life from chems are impossible, now you say it is possible if God helped? I'm sorry, but I need to know a) what God did that the chems weren't capable without him/her/it, b) evidence for he/she/it actually doing it, and c) proof of it being the christian god and not another.

 

Answer: He used his great power. the chemicals can't just bcoem life. everyoen shoudl know to make DNA you need RNA and to make RNA you need DNA and to amke Amino Acids wou need DNA and to make protein you need Amino Acids... and so on and so forth. pretty much only God could've done that. and cells are so complex and work so well. how could it not be God's work? answer to C: i dunno. i guess i have to have faith don't I? Every religion requires soem faith, and to not believe soemthing we can't fully understand is arrogance in a sense i think. (not saying ur arrogant, cause ur not.)

 

Quote: I would like to see where it says that. And would you mind telling me why c-14 estimates put the dinosaurs on earth milions of years before humans?

 

Answer: In the bible god created the animals before humans. who says dinosaurs couldn't have existed for millions years before humans and eventually humans coexisted with them? it's possible and my non-christian histroy books seem to imply that it might be true.

 

Big Quote: Quote:

Is it not so hard to for once think it’s possible that other higher beings created by God exist among us?

 

 

 

It's hard for me to believe anything without evidence.

 

 

Quote:

Now God doesn’t make mistakes. This was all part of his plan. He is God. God must have a purpose. He can’t just be God and do nothing. Everything must have a purpose and reason for existing. This is all a grand plan of his. He creates angles that can be corrupted by their own free will, and evil is born for a purpose. He then creates the universe and us. We are like a Jury. God is the Judge. Out of his perfection he wanted other beings to be able to experience what it is like to be like him. Therefore he created us. The angles were not meant for this purpose. He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross to save us from our sins.

 

 

Again, I need evidence to believe anything.

 

 

Quote:

All except for one sin- not believing in him.

 

 

 

So, Gandhi goes to hell for not believing in him, while Richard Lionheart gets a ticket to heaven? Seems quite unfair to me

 

 

Quote:

This may seem like a bunch of superstition, but in fact it is a grand plan. How else could it possibly be more perfect for us to debate like a jury on this earth. The conditions are perfect. Good and evil combat on this earth with such perfection.

 

 

 

So, can you point out the black and white warriors for me? I seem to only be able to see shades of grey.

 

 

Quote:

I believe because I know it’s true

 

 

 

How do you know?

 

 

Quote:

God is God. He is above everyone and everything. He deserves respect. Who are we to challenge the truth and power of a being with infinite power and understanding that makes our minds seem like the minds of fools? We can’t possibly compete with God. He knows what’s good for us and many of us are so deceived by Satan that we don’t know what’s good for us. We are of a curious nature, seeking out the unknown and debating what is true. What else could be more perfect to debate Good and evil and all else? Wouldn’t you be happy serving God in heaven, having ultimate understanding just like him and living eternally in perfect content? It’s not something we can comprehend. We debate it because it requires some faith. God made the situation like this for a reason. He loves us. But not with conventional love. It’s called Agape Love (agape is a Greek word) Agape means unconditional love. Despite our sin and corruption he understands and graces us out, for it was his plan all along for us to experience sin. There is something called the great white throne judgment. This will occur after the tribulation, which is after the rapture.

 

 

 

I'm probably getting tiresome, but evidence please

 

 

Quote:

When all believers on this earth disappear into thin air, hopefully some of you who will not be persuaded by what I’ve said will finally realize I was right

 

 

 

Sure, if it happens I'll curse myself for not being convinced without any evidence shown, not terribly afraid of it happening though

 

 

Quote:

When this time occurs, and I’m proven correct

 

 

 

Thats a rather bad attitude man, correct me if I'm wrong but you are essentially sayng " I am right no matter what, I don't care if I don't have evidence, I'm still right"

 

 

Quote:

Other religions. We can debate that too. I say Christianity is right and every other religion is false. As simple as that, but I can’t prove it. That’s why the bible says you have to have faith. Pretty bold words I guess but that’s why we’re going to debate this aren’t we? I won’t force this on you. I infact just want to debate this because I need a bit of a challenge for once. Who knows? I might lose this debate, but as I aid, if the tribulation and rapture do happen, no matter how this debate turns out my point will have been correct. We’ll just have to see what happens.

 

 

 

Changing from *when* to *if* is an improvement, though I hardly see the point in debating with someone who have no evidence suporting him, yet seem to be unable to considder that he/she may be wrong.

 

 

Quote:

Also calling you atheists… it’s such a strong term. But I guess it’s the only term I can refer to you as. I just want you to know I hold nothing against you and I hope we can still be friends and our opinions of each other don’t change.

 

 

 

I do not hold anything against religious people in general, and my oppinion of them hasn't changed. My oppinion of you is another matter, it hasn't improved to put it mildly.

 

 

Quote:

I don’t want this DISCUSSION to become a flame war, so seriously let’s be civilized. I’ll be civilized, unlike how I was in the past a few months ago.

 

 

 

Untill you seem to be able to think critically and question your own belief (you don't have to change it), I don't see the point in discussing anything. On a side note, I'll be surprised if this dosen't get locked/ignored before long

 

 

Answer: A: because all the evidence i've seen seems to prove it to me

B: Yep. God doesn't care about Human good, just as long as The person believes in him. unconditional love.

C: Faith. i admit i can't prove everything.

D: same as A

E: can't you see it? the world events and everything are fittign together perfectly just like a puzzle with only a few pieces left. there are signs everywhere that it's goign to happen. sure not hard evidence but again i say all religion requires some faith. but then again maybe i could use the null hypothesis concept to my advnatage here...

F: I guess you're right. i can't really prove it. sorry that I kinda came up here saying "I am right no matter what, I don't care if I don't have evidence, I'm still right"

G: You're right about that. still... Christinity exists and if it's true which i myself beleive and 'know' it is thne it's better safe than sorry. but i don't mean to impose that on you in that sense. that what sort of a rhetorical opinion statement or something

H: I hope your opinion of me improves a little from this somehow. sure, after this debate is over i bet you won't consider me to a very logical person but i guess that can't really be avoided. all i'd liek is if we let bygones be bygones from the past, becasue i've changed from the person i was a few months ago.

I: Yeah... this has been debated so much is a stalemate for both sides becasue neither side lets up or gives up. then again this time i'm willign to admit defeat. i doubt this willb e locked but this will probably go dead after a while. i see your point

 

Answer to Ray Jones:

Ya know i bet some people lived in europe at that time already. there is a natural landbridge between those africa and europe. maybe that volcano is what created the sahara desert. i bet alot of people survived in egypt and southern europe. maybe that's what caused the famine mentioned in the bible during Joseph's time as pharoah of egypt... it was mentioned that it was a seven year famine. 6/7 years is very close and maybe that 6 years of dakr sky you mentioned was almost seven years

[Ray Jones]

Arcesious, put [quote=insert name here][/quote] tags around the text you like to quote.

 

Ya know i bet some people lived in europe at that time already. there is a natural landbridge between those africa and europe.

I know. These humans could have been the Neanderthals, I think.

[mur'phon]

Answer: Still, every bit of science you ever have tested without includign the possiblity of God has always turned otu the same. it doesn't work. the only real explanation anyone can truly come to at this moment is God is the answer, whther they liek it or not.

 

How is a scientist suposed to include the possibility of a god/gods in their tests?

 

Answer: He used his great power. the chemicals can't just bcoem life

 

No one knows that, though if you provide evidence, I'll be with you.

 

how could it not be God's work?

 

Because it could maybe have happened without he/she/it/they, I haven't seen anything completely denying the possibility of abigensis. Because simple lifelifeforms could have arived on a meteor. And of course because it could be Vishnu, Allah, Yme or any other god/gods who did it.

 

dunno. i guess i have to have faith don't I?

 

No you don't have to have faith, wether you choose to have it is your choice:)

 

Every religion requires soem faith, and to not believe soemthing we can't fully understand is arrogance in a sense i think

 

I think otherwise:) My stance is more like: to acept something without proof, is to risk deluding your self. Of course I might be wrong.

 

eventually humans coexisted with them

 

Then why have we yet to find any dinosaurs who lived even close to when humans came round?

 

 

can't you see it? the world events and everything are fittign together perfectly just like a puzzle with only a few pieces left. there are signs everywhere that it's goign to happen.

 

Humans are trying to see paterns everywhere, try to look at the skies, and you'll see a lot of familiar shapes, now, try to ask others what they think they look like.

 

but then again maybe i could use the null hypothesis concept to my advnatage here...

 

Using a hypothesis that you have called something like "unscientific rubish" to your advantage may not be a good idea

 

it is thne it's better safe than sorry

 

Maybe christians are right, maybe moslems are right, maybe budhists are right, maybe god/the gods love critical people and saves atheists, some may end up safe, a lot may end up sorry

 

I hope your opinion of me improves a little from this somehow

 

A person who apologies when he think he is wrong, is a person I respect a lot. I was a bit harsh some places, and I apologise for that, but alls well that ends well right?

[Rev7]

In the bible god created the animals before humans

I think that it is the other way around. God created Adam first, then created animals because Adam was...'lonely'... Adam named the animals, animals didn't do the job so God created Eve.

 

I have yet to see you prove it' date=' though I hope you can.[/quote']

Do you have any proof that God didn't create the universe? If so, who created the universe. If you support the 'big-bang' theory, how was all of this matter created? Ect., ect. Please provide us with some proof too.

[Corinthian]

Wrong, Rev. God created Humanity last. Geez. It's the very start of the Bible, would it be THAT hard to look it up?

[Arcesious]

A great flood could significantly destroy evidence of dinosaurs existing when humans did.

 

one question i have:

waht about crocdiels and alligators?

 

Christian sceicntists have included God in their tests. how? The factor, God is likely refered to as an imaginary number- A-Z most commonly X. (from calculus) in their calculations

[mur'phon]

Do you have any proof that God didn't create the universe?

 

No, and I have no proof the universe wasn't created by invisible unicorns either.

 

If so, who created the universe

 

I don't know, dosen't neccesarly need to be anyone.

 

how was all of this matter created?

 

No idea

 

Please provide us with some proof too.

 

I can't, never claimed I could either

[Rev7]

Wrong, Rev. God created Humanity last. Geez. It's the very start of the Bible, would it be THAT hard to look it up?

Hey, I made a mistake. I am sorry. I got a tad bit confused, and I should have gone straight to the Bible at first. So once again, please forgive me.

[Arcesious]

It seems the universe cannot exist without an intelligent creating factor. A.K.A God.

 

It seems my most basic point is impregnable... The Universe cannot and will not exist without God. even though we don't know how God can exist, there is no other explanation besidees that God must exist. God has to exist. If you don't liek it sorry, but every bit of scientific evidence there is and ever will be has an empty hole that only the factor named God can fill.

[mur'phon]

A great flood could significantly destroy evidence of dinosaurs existing when humans did

 

I would first like to see evidence of this flood, then I would ask why a flood, which usually is not bad for preserving fossiles, should wipe out all traces.

 

one question i have:

waht about crocdiels and alligators?

 

What about them?

 

Christian sceicntists have included God in their tests. how? The factor, God is likely refered to as an imaginary number- A-Z most commonly X. (from calculus) in their calculations

 

I'm still not getting how they do it, if you show me an experiment where they used a god/gods, it would probably be easier

[Arcesious]

Evidence of the flood- look at all the ice. that's where it went.

The crocodiles and alligators: i just am wondering if moses took them on the ark or if they somehow survived the great flood

Including God as a factor, he is an imaginary number a factor that cannot fully be calculated. like Pi.

[Rev7]

i just am wondering if moses took thme on the akr or if theysomhow survived the great flood.

The great flood, that was stated in the bible, was a purge. Everything that was not on the Ark died. So that generally leaves you with Moses taking the aligators and the crocidlies with him on the Ark.

[Arcesious]

One last speculation: how did the plants survive?

[Jae Onasi]

Wrong, Rev. God created Humanity last. Geez. It's the very start of the Bible, would it be THAT hard to look it up?

 

Quit flame-baiting, Corinthian.

[Web Rider]

One last speculation: how did the plants survive?

 

there are many kinds of plants that require certain circumstances for their seeds to sprout, some need the shells of the seeds worn down, some need them to be digested, some need temperature, rainfall, or season.

 

A seed could, in theory, remain frozen for a long time, unfreeze and then sprout. How long? Dunno, some seeds are said to last for decades.

[Arcesious]

Makes sense. I bet alot of seeds would float druring a flood.

 

Wow.... everything we've debated here... i've learned some new things and histroy is finally becoming clear... Now more thna ever Christinity is makign even more sense than before to me thnaks to these debates.

[Rev7]

Yah, I have already learned a lot more about Christianity during this 'debate' , and a lot about some of LF users.

 

Well, plants can be overwatered and die. Regardless, we don't know EXACTLY how all of this went down. That is something that I think we will know once we die.

[Web Rider]

Yah, I have already learned a lot more about Christianity during this 'debate' , and a lot about some of LF users.

 

Well, plants can be overwatered and die. Regardless, we don't know EXACTLY how all of this went down. That is something that I think we will know once we die.

 

Plants yes, seeds are not the same as plants. Produced from plants? yes. But seeds don't simply grow when water is applied. Oh, and when you die, do let me know, I'm just as curious to put an end to all this as anyone.

 

of course, if I'm right, when you die that's the end of it, and then we'll never know. oh well.