The ultimate MMORPG according to me

[HappyMojo]

The ultimate MMORPG according to me

(But what do you think?)

 

 

 

About this forum post

I’ve been playing MMORPG’s for several years, having my first taste of it with Everquest II, which kind of inspired me to try other online games. However, years have passed and I’ve grown older, prettier, a bit more heavy and perhaps a bit more fond of beer - but that’s another story. As I’ve grown older, so have my taste in games. The normal Hack N’ Slash games simply doesn’t cut it for me anymore.

I want more then just mindless grinding and basic questing, because I believe that MMORPG’s have so much more potentials then that. Therefore I will try to define what I believe would be the ultimate MMORPG – Not just for me, but all kinds of players.

And now that Bioware and Lucasarts are working on their huge super secret MMO game, which is hopefully “Knights of the old republic 3”. Let's face it, Bioware does make some great games, so I got… ehh… inspired to make this giant post.

 

 

 

 

Good and bad things in MMORPG’s I have played

The biggest MMORPG today is “World of Warcraft” with over 8 million subscribers. But why has it become so popular? For me the game itself isn’t that good at all. It’s basically just grinding and questing and earning enough exp to get a few better skills every second level. And when you finally reach the level cap, it’s more grinding to get rare epic items. All in all, boring!

But what makes it so special? Why did I keep playing it?

 

First of all, it game was very easy to learn. I didn’t take long for me to “master” my skills and find new and intuitive use for them. That was important to getting started – but what carried me through the levels were the social aspect. I joined a guild of players about my own age. We quested together, and we were always joking over the guild chat. That was the fun part for me. That was the reason why I kept playing.

 

Eventually I got bored with “World of Warcraft” and wanted to try something new. So I then tried “Dungeons and Dragons Online” which is in my opinion the best MMORPG I’ve ever played. The thing I really liked about “Dungeons and Dragons Online” was that you were able to build and customize your character. You didn’t have to be a fighter, mage or a cleric. Because of the multiclass system, you were able to create a fighter/cleric or a mage/cleric/paladin if you wanted that. You had 14 levels for you build, and you could make good builds and bad builds. The character development was far more challenging then the linier system that is used in “World of Warcraft”.

Also the gameplay was far better too. You entered dungeons with your party with the possibility of having several difficulties (Solo, normal, hard and elite). Because of the multiclass system, you could become far more then just a healer, tank or dps. My build was a fighter/cleric so I could buff, heal, tank and even crowd control. I had so many options that I even enjoyed the Hacking and Slashing.

The graphics and audio was great compared to “World of Warcraft”.

 

But “Dungeons and Dragons Online” wasn’t perfect. The chat system was messy compared to “World of Warcraft’s”. Player versus player (PvP) was limited to the taverns brawl rooms. The user interface was rather bad, and you couldn’t customize it. There were no addons or tweaks. Finally it became boring running around the same city (Stormreach), and I started missing the open landscaped in “World of Warcraft” that I used to hate. So I decided to try something new.

 

I tried Archlord for about ten minutes before I went crazy and deleted the game. Yes, I didn’t give the game a fair chance. But the freedom of movement is important for me as a player. I need to be able to jump when I want to jump. I couldn’t do that in Archlord. For instance you can’t jump down a one foot hill – you have to go around it grrrr! I had to drink a six-pack to calm myself down.

(No wonder that gamespot.com gave it a 2,8 rating of 10)

 

I also tried “GuildWars Nightfall”, but other then the lack of a monthly fee; the game itself didn’t make an impact on me. All the characters looked the same, the combat system was boring – but that’s just my opinion. Perhaps I had my hopes set a bit too high. But there was one thing in “Guild Wars Nightfall” that I simply loved. Like “World of Warcraft” it had huge open landscapes. But unlike “World of Warcraft” where you had to spend a lot of time travelling back and forth, you could simply teleport between all the known areas. This meant that you could spend your time doing what you wanted, rather then spending 50% of your play time on travelling (75% if you’re under lvl 40 and don’t have a mount :S ).

 

But in all these four games I’ve named, there’s one thing I am missing from my old Everquest II days. A proper skill and profession system! In “World of Warcraft” you are limited to a very few skills and professions. “Dungeons and Dragons Online” have a better use of skills, but once you become high-level, you skills will be overridden by high-level spells, making them a bit obsolete.

The best skill system is still the good old Everquest II, yet it’s still very limited and boring to develop. But does the future hold anything special?

 

 

 

What’s coming in 2008?

2008, a new year! But so far I haven’t got my hopes up so far. One of the big contenders of knocking “World of Warcraft” of its throne is “Warhammer Online” (Or, so it is said). But so far I’ve failed to see any difference. One should expect that a game that is released in 2008 should look far better then “World of Warcraft” that was released in November 2004. But no, it actually looks worse.

If you look a Warhammer Online’s key features, I can’t find any innovative development. For me it sounds like another World of Warcraft in another package – but I’m hoping that I’m wrong.

Warhammer online is just one of many World of Warcraft clones like: “Age of Conan”, “The Chronicles of Spellborn” etc…

 

The one MMORPG that does lift my spirits a bit is Aion. It is built on the old Farcry engine, and the graphics does look quite good compared to other MMORPG. One great thing is that you can fly! The use of landscapes is not only stunning, but also quite innovative.

The game itself is angels vs. daemons with dragons in between to uphold the balance in the PvP fights. You can either play an angel or a daemon. Let’s say that the angels are beginning to thrash the daemons a bit too much, thereby disturbing the balance in the game. Then the dragons, who are a non-player faction and a common enemy to all players, will launch attacks on the angels, to uphold the balance.

Even though I’m not much of a PvP player, I think I’ll give this game a try.

 

Still, these are the ones who caught my attention, and there are many more at mmorpg.com – you can look them up yourselves.

 

 

 

What can we learn from other games?

If we look at the normal RPG, we can learn a lot. For instance one of my favourites was Knights of the old republic. What I liked about that game was the story and the NPCs. Those who have played KOTOR will properly remember HK47’s many references to the ‘meatbags’ he had killed. I loved his steadfast personality, his mockery and his background stories. I could spend hours prying his secrets from him. It was great and it gave the game a bit more substance.

Why not implement NPCs like this in a MMORPG? Someone who are more then just a quest giver. Someone who you need to work with, talk with, gain his/her trust, and then perhaps get a quest from the NPC.

Perhaps even getting cross social references, where NPC hears of your deeds and perhaps lands you a quest because of earlier actions. Or perhaps like in Mass Effect your chosen background will change NPC’s standings towards you. Perhaps you can overhear people (NPCs) in the streets, and get quests that way, it will give the game so much more substance.

There’s nothing more idiotic then getting one of the quest from “World of Warcraft” – “Find me 6 boar ribs”, then to be amazed of how many boars that doesn’t have ribs. It’s stupid, but simple.

 

Another upcoming MMORPG, “Tabula Rasa”, combines a first-person with a MMORPG. This is also seen in Hellgate and of course Mass Effect. But why stop there? Why not implement vehicles like spaceships, tanks, star fighters, dragons, you name it, into a MMORPG and combine it into quests?

 

 

 

All skills and no classed and no levels

Imagine a MMORPG without levels. Everything is done in skills. The character starts with a number of skill points that the player can use for his or her leisure. The player can choose to make a soldier by adding some skill points into guns and melee combat. Or perhaps the player decides that he would rather play a tech-head that cracks security system, or perhaps he wants to combine the two, making the character a soldier who knows a bit about security system.

As the game progresses and the player gains more experience, more options becomes available. The player may choose to become a pilot, or a medic, a politician, a trader, a criminal thug, a smuggler, a weapon crafter or perhaps an Ewok gunslinger….

 

 

 

A quest example

Then let’s say you got a quest from a high standing official. The quest says that you have to infiltrate a hostile planet and get an item of some sort. Let’s say this you have made a rogue-like character and needs someone who can fight and make a diversion. You also need someone who can heal the wounded, and a pilot good enough to get the party through the planetary defences, and someone who can breach the enemy’s security system.

Then imagine that you got the people you needed, and that your character is sitting in the spaceship with other players. Now it’s up to the pilot to get you through all the defences. The player who plays the pilot does what he has designed/built his character to do. The rest can only hope that he is good enough to get through the defences.

Let’s say it goes well, you found a great pilot and you get through the defences. Now you’re on a new planet. The fauna is different and you don’t know what’s hidden in the shadows. No doubt the enemy (Perhaps other players) knows that you are there. Now it’s up to the soldiers who are playing first-person shooter (thanks to the great UI), to kill any enemy while you and the security expert try to steal the quest item. The pilot can either help on the ground or provided cover from the air. The medic patches up the soldiers.

In the end, the quest is a success, and you all return home as heroes. You all get medals, a few more skill points, perhaps a new rank and maybe some milk and cookies. Some NPC’s might even find an interest in you

The enemy on the other hand hates you a bit more, and may send some assassins (Perhaps players) your way…

 

Anyway…

You think that pilot was great and add him to your friends list or perhaps your faction/guild or whatever. You may have picked up a few cool items along the way, and perhaps a weapon crafter can implement these items into your weapon, or you can sell them on the auction house for some credits.

 

 

 

Summery – The ultimate MMORPG

Summery of what the ultimate MMORPG should contain.

1) Easy to learn and use

 

2) Good feel and freedom of movement

 

3) Stunning graphics and audio.

 

4) An open world that the player can explore.

 

5) Possibility of easy and quick travelling.

 

6) Dynamic questing – like I’ve described above.

 

7) Dynamic NPC’s.

 

8) Customizable character development.

 

9) Customizable UI (User Interface)

 

10) Great social tools

 

11) Extensive skill system

 

12) PvP and PvE should be well developed. (Perhaps like Aion)

 

13) Innovation! More then just an old game in a new package.

 

14) Multi platform – not just those blasted consoles! (*grumbles* Mass Effect *grumble grumble* PC *grumble*…)

 

I’ll add some more later on… This post has become a bit longer then I expected…

[Aash Li]

The one thing I hate about most of the quests in Warcrack was that you couldntuse diplomacy to solve a quest, there wasnt another way to do it. It was just "I need you to go to this firbolg town and slaughter the boss and his cronies because he took my lunch money." Instead of giving you an option to go there and reason with the guy, or perhaps do something for the enemy and get the quest item that way for the original giver.

 

Ive been playing Tabula Rasa since almost since launch. Its fun and solo'able up to Palisades, then you need a group for nearly everything. Ive got a ranger, and Ive died more times in that one game than I did in guild wars and warcrack combined. Theyve made the players substantially weaker than the enemy, which just isnt fun, when youve got overwhelming numbers to fight.

 

What I did like about TR was that your armour always matched! Or you could get quest armour that matched by the time you finished an area.

 

Warcrack, you had food and drink, that you could RP with, you could mod the UI, you had clothes that were just for RP, and there were events (admittedly the same thing every year). You had sleep, eat, sit, walk, run, jump (my least favourite action because of the goobers). When you got stuff like this, it adds to the immersion. And in so doing, makes the game more fun.

[SilentScope001]

I think I played several MMOs on and off, NationStates, Urban Dead, etc. But the one MMO I always go back to is "Real Life". So, I'll compare my MMO to your wish-list, see if it is right for you.

 

1) Easy to learn and use

 

I think so. There are always lots of tutors willing to help you along the path, and the UI is really user-friendly.

 

2) Good feel and freedom of movement

 

Total freedom. You can do whatever you want.

 

3) Stunning graphics and audio.

 

Yep. Stunning graphics and audio. You can't get more stunning than Real Life.

 

4) An open world that the player can explore.

 

Certain areas do indeed require certain items like passports and surivial kits, but, yeah, I think you can explore all 148,940,000 km² of land and 361,132,000 km² of water.

 

5) Possibility of easy and quick travelling.

 

Just aquire a car, and you could really go anywhere quickly and easily.

 

6) Dynamic questing – like I’ve described above.

 

Yes. Quests actually change, for you and for everyone else, depending on your actions. As you rise in ranks, you gain more responsiblity and have more of an effect. But even if you mess up a small quest, the ramifications can affect you greatly and could easily cause you to no longer get the same quest line.

 

Very, very dynamic.

 

7) Dynamic NPC’s.

 

Erm, there's the kicker that might make you upset. From what I read, other than animals such as bears and wolves, there ARE no human NPCs in Real Life. Everyone is a PC.

 

8) Customizable character development.

 

Er. You can't really customize anything in Real Life. You are given parents, income, and an innate skill set when you start off and you have to deal with the cards you dealt with. You have to customize your character from that skill set, and I think that's the most annoying part of Real Life.

 

9) Customizable UI (User Interface)

 

I don't think we have that either in Real Life. You only got one UI. Use it or leave.

 

10) Great social tools

 

Social tools=check! But I rarely use them.

 

11) Extensive skill system

 

Yeah, sure. You could, in theory, really do anything you want in Real Life. In pratice, not so much, as you need really a good innate skill set to have a chance, and even if you got potential, will you be able to use it?

 

12) PvP and PvE should be well developed. (Perhaps like Aion)

 

Combat? Combat?!

 

Don't you realize that in Real Life, combat is lethal? Well, uh, no, I'm the one that actually telling you about it, but in Real Life, sure you can fight in wars and hunt animals, but Real Life has permadeath, so if you die, that's it. Sure, you could gain much benieft, but in the long term, it's not worth it. Most people play Real Life for other reasons, like talking to others or accumlating wealth, not to go and kill each other.

 

PvP is well developed, there are lots of plotlines, your death can have effects, and you could very well cause lots of mayhem and have lots of fun and maybe even rise in the ranks to become the military leader of an army and kill even more people. BUT, with "permadeath", I have to say, Real Life's combat is just plain stupid and moronic.

 

In some servers, you can get 'drafted' (i.e., FORCED to enter into PvP), which can make people who would rather prefer the non-combat aspects of the game very angry. My server doesn't do that currently, but you can see why

 

13) Innovation! More then just an old game in a new package.

 

Not very innovative either. Just a copycat of Action/Adventure games, with a sidebar of annoying grinding activites such as the "shuffling papers" mini-games. The whole 'social' aspect does sound good, but WoW did that so much better than Real Life.

 

Well, they do have the longest grind, if you count that as 'innovation'. It takes 18, that's right, 18 years to get the CHANCE to get to the more prestigous degrees, and then you deal with very difficult issues after that. Plus, if you don't have the innate skill set to make it far, you won't make it, simple. And a lighting strike can kill you and wipe out your WHOLE progress, wiping away 60-70 years of work.

 

14) Multi platform – not just those blasted consoles! (*grumbles* Mass Effect *grumble grumble* PC *grumble*…)

 

Real Life only plays on one platform, Reality. So, it won't really worry for you.

 

In the end, while I think I should cancel my account and move onto other games, I am still addicted to Real Life, because, I confess, I am one of those dreaded 'gold miners' over there, aquiring stuff and then selling them for valuable 'WoW gold'.

[Aash Li]

As for Aion, Ive been anxiously awaiting that game for atleast 2 years. >.> Its in beta in Korea now from what I hear, so hopefully we get beta early next year.

[Corinthian]

Aion? Aion? This is AGE OF CONAN.

 

Seriously, the game is amazing. It's completely different from WoW, other than being in a fantasy world. Check it out.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Aion? Aion? This is AGE OF CONAN.

 

Seriously, the game is amazing. It's completely different from WoW, other than being in a fantasy world. Check it out.

 

 

I hope you're in the BETA because the game won't be released until 2008 and judging before playing is quite stupid.

[HerbieZ]

This real life looks nice, unfortunately i want to kill people and loot their bodies so il stick to MMO's kthxbye.

[John Galt]

checked out darkfall? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall

 

a few friends and I are already organizing a guild.

[HappyMojo]

I think I played several MMOs on and off, NationStates, Urban Dead, etc. But the one MMO I always go back to is "Real Life". So, I'll compare my MMO to your wish-list, see if it is right for you.

 

 

 

I think so. There are always lots of tutors willing to help you along the path, and the UI is really user-friendly.....

 

LMAO - But can I get a real jedi lightsaber and a Twi'lek Dancing girl?

[Aash Li]

Hrmm... just watched the age of conan video on mmorpg... and I must say it does look rather nice. And gorey.

 

I bet the censorship people will be squealing that its going to make kids into murders. heh

[stoffe]

The one thing I hate about most of the quests in Warcrack was that you couldntuse diplomacy to solve a quest, there wasnt another way to do it. It was just "I need you to go to this firbolg town and slaughter the boss and his cronies because he took my lunch money."giver.

 

My only experience in MMOs so far is Guild Wars, but this seems to be a general weak point in MMOs from what I've heard and seen. Many quests tend to be fairly straight forward, checklist style where you can only solve problems in one way and where combat is usually unavoidable and your only choices are the tactics used to handle it. I guess it's hard to have loads of dialog with meaningful choices in multiplayer cooperative play worlds though.

 

Ive died more times in that one game than I did in guild wars and warcrack combined. Theyve made the players substantially weaker than the enemy, which just isnt fun, when youve got overwhelming numbers to fight.

 

Another thing I'm not terribly fond of in Guild Wars. Seems a bit typical that the weakest person with least potential for growth in the land has to shoulder the mantle of hero and brave hordes of opponents who are all much more powerful and have cooler skills than you do.

 

It diminishes the warm fuzzy feeling of victory knowing that you only win because you already know in advance what's going to happen, and you can't die permanently thanks to the handy Deus Ex Machina devices reviving you whenever you get wiped out. Dying is quite an immersion breaker for me, though I can reluctantly accept it when the plot requires it. Wearing some ridiculously powerful enemy down by dying, being revived, dying, being revived, dying ad nauseam just feels silly after a while.

 

Areas where you can't take two steps without being mobbed and torn to shreds by a huge pack of powerful monsters aren't very entertaining to explore when you don't like to die. Unfortunately I seem to have run into that particular road block with Guild Wars.

[stingerhs]

those are some good, solid ideas there. to be honest, i can't find a fault with any of them, but none of them would really change my biggest criticisms of every popular MMO i've ever seen. that criticism is that nothing in the game world ever really changes. think about it for a moment: for the most part, everybody is running around performing a bunch of quests, but none of those quests have an impact on anybody except for the people that complete the quests.

 

IMHO, all MMO's have really squandered the fact that there are so many people online at the exact same time. why don't we have situations where the actions of those that are playing affect everybody?? why don't we have it where rival factions can have peace or go to war?? and when they go to war, why can't they take over certain things like resources or territory?? its not that the games don't have the manpower to accomplish this, so why can't it be implemented??

 

think about it, if you had the above, an MMO based around Star Wars would be incredible. could you imagine hundreds of people duking it out in real life the similar to the epic battles from the movies?? the great thing is that the events in the game wouldn't have to match up with the movies. everything could be different, and there could be more than just rebels and Imperials, too.

 

that's where i think MMO's have really squandered an opportunity to do something truly grand. the closest i've seen is Planetside which was a MMOFPS, but even that was so simplistic that it wasn't really on par with what i described.

 

anyways, back to Mass Effect.

[Aash Li]

Stoffe... I could start playing GW again if you dont have anyone to play with. That was my main reason for stopping playing. No one to play with, I was and probly still in a European guild run by a girl from Russia. hehe. But because Im in the US, and they arent, theres a bit of a time issue. So I was usually on at the same time as them during the late night or weekends.

[lukeiamyourdad]

IMHO, all MMO's have really squandered the fact that there are so many people online at the exact same time. why don't we have situations where the actions of those that are playing affect everybody?? why don't we have it where rival factions can have peace or go to war?? and when they go to war, why can't they take over certain things like resources or territory?? its not that the games don't have the manpower to accomplish this, so why can't it be implemented??

 

Well, I would love to have that too, but I fear too many things can be out of control and the human factor (read idiots) can still ruin things for everyone. Some people negotiating peace, but a single idiot starts murdering members of the opposing faction and the hostilities continue. It takes only one moron...

[HappyMojo]

 

IMHO, all MMO's have really squandered the fact that there are so many people online at the exact same time. why don't we have situations where the actions of those that are playing affect everybody?? why don't we have it where rival factions can have peace or go to war?? and when they go to war, why can't they take over certain things like resources or territory?? its not that the games don't have the manpower to accomplish this, so why can't it be implemented??

I agree that would be great, but as "lukeiamyourdad" mentioned, it only takes one idiot. But I believe that it could be made, if it took a lot of gameplay to get a certain status to be able to declare war, or something like that.

 

Also, I would be cool to have a "slave world" or a "conquered world" where the players have to fight the rulers... In real roleplay, it's not uncommon to play a slave that tries to escape... why not in a MMORPG?

 

 

think about it, if you had the above, an MMO based around Star Wars would be incredible. could you imagine hundreds of people duking it out in real life the similar to the epic battles from the movies?? the great thing is that the events in the game wouldn't have to match up with the movies. everything could be different, and there could be more than just rebels and Imperials, too.

Then imagine that you have earned a whole lot of status, and have become a starfleet admiral, giving orders to people with lower status in these great wars. That would be sweet.

 

 

Hrmm... just watched the age of conan video on mmorpg... and I must say it does look rather nice. And gorey.

Yes, but still not much difference from WoW

[Corinthian]

Maybe not in geography, but in terms of gameplay, WoW and Age of Conan are leagues apart.

[HappyMojo]

I admit Age of Conan does have some new cool features, like the guild cities for instance. But other then that, I still don't see much of a differance. It's still sounds like another Hack n' Splat MMO to me

[Aash Li]

http://www.mmorpg.com/gc-germany.cfm/section/videos/id/1107

 

Chronicles of the Spellborn, a german-made game. It looks really cool, something Ive been waiting for. This an Aion.

[Serpentine Cougar]

The only MMO that I'd really like to play is EVE Online, because it lets the players make the story so you feel like you're actually a part of it (at least that's the idea I get from what I've heard). All other MMO's seem to be just hyped-up versions of level-grinding. The reason I don't play EVE is because of the subscription; if Guild Wars wasn't another level-grinder (albeit a probably really cool one), I'd probably play it because of the lack of subscription fees.

[Aash Li]

Guild Wars is hardly level grinding. Theres only 20 levels, and you can max the chara out if you know the right quests, and right areas. Unless youre unfortunate and have a Factions of Nightfall chara, then you need to get someone to run you through a few missions, or run you through a mission prologue-thingy (Nightfall) so you can get off the locked island and get to these quest-caches that will level you fairly quick.

 

Guild Wars isnt a level-grinder, its a money-grinder. If you want the pretty armour sets you have to run out and farm the money up to get the horrifyingly expensive materials to buy them. Especially the black dye, which, last time I was on there was 12 platinum. >.>

 

I was going to try Lineage 2, because I played it on a private server once and loved it. The graphics are so pretty. Even if it is a grinding game. The one thing that killed my want was forced-pvp. I dont mind battlegrounds, or arenas, but every server is a pvp server! >.< And since you loose xp, and can even loose level from dying, ganking becomes a nightmare... no thanks.

 

So, Im currently out of a game right now... waiting for either Aion or Spellborn.

 

As for eve, I tried that once, its pretty, its game play was meh. And youre just a ship... a spaceship with guns and stuff... it was fun customizing stuff. But then eve is also world pvp too... so you risk getting holed up in a space station by an enemy force that wants to gank anyone that leaves. Or you could be out farming asteroids (which I really thought was fun), and have some huge battleship player zip in and destroy you for the fun of it... again, no thanks.

[stoffe]

Stoffe... I could start playing GW again if you dont have anyone to play with. That was my main reason for stopping playing. No one to play with, I was and probly still in a European guild run by a girl from Russia.

 

The different times zones are a bit bothersome at times. I do have some people I play with, mostly to do missions and some of the tougher quests. Jae and Rogue Nine from here who lured me into the game to begin with, among others, and I've played a few times with Samuel Dravis as well. If you want someone to play with I'm often on during "american times". I currently have an Elementalist character who's doing Nightfall and Eye of the North, and a Necromancer who's doing Prophecies. Give me a shout if you want someone to play with.

 

Then imagine that you have earned a whole lot of status, and have become a starfleet admiral, giving orders to people with lower status in these great wars. That would be sweet.

 

Well, to loosely paraphrase Frank Fontaine, people come expecting to make it big and forget that someone still has to clean the toilets. Since people likely don't want to clean toilets for fun during their free time, the ones stuck in the Lowly Grunt positions will probably get bored with being bossed around fairly quickly and abandon the game. And a navy made up entirely of admirals doesn't sound very effective

 

That's one of the problems making MMO stories compared to single player games. In a game with thousands or millions of players not everyone can be the special hero. You can't have a galaxy full of Revans, and being Trask just isn't quite that interesting.

 

Guild Wars is hardly level grinding. Theres only 20 levels, and you can max the chara out if you know the right quests, and right areas. Unless youre unfortunate and have a Factions of Nightfall chara, then you need to get someone to run you through a few missions

 

That's another problem with Guild Wars, some of the missions are so hard and obscure that they require you to have advance knowledge of what will happen to have any chance at all to succeed. Fortunately I've had some nice people help me through some of those parts of the game otherwise I'd likely be stuck there. And being stuck in a game isn't fun for very long.

 

(That, and enemies continuing to level beyond the lvl 20 level cap doesn't feel entirely fair )

 

Guild Wars isnt a level-grinder, its a money-grinder. If you want the pretty armour sets you have to run out and farm the money up to get the horrifyingly expensive materials to buy them. Especially the black dye, which, last time I was on there was 12 platinum. >.>

 

Quite. Money always seems to be in short supply, and the only reliable way of getting it seems to be looting and killing, since the quests and mission gold rewards are so ridiculously low they feel more like an insult than a reward. And as soon as you manage to scrape together some gold there is always something extremely expensive to spend it on so you will stay poor most of the time.

 

(And while there are a few quite expensive or hard to get utility items, the game makes you pay most for fashion rather than utility.)

[HappyMojo]

Well, to loosely paraphrase Frank Fontaine, people come expecting to make it big and forget that someone still has to clean the toilets. Since people likely don't want to clean toilets for fun during their free time, the ones stuck in the Lowly Grunt positions will probably get bored with being bossed around fairly quickly and abandon the game. And a navy made up entirely of admirals doesn't sound very effective

 

That's true... unless you limit the number of positions as "Fleet Admiral", "High Chancellor" or perhaps "Crime Lord". PvP could be so much more then just combat.

Still, I believe that many players would prefer to be a simple pilot, doing dog-fights, rather then stand around the tactical map as a high-ranking officer.

[lukeiamyourdad]

That's true... unless you limit the number of positions as "Fleet Admiral", "High Chancellor" or perhaps "Crime Lord". PvP could be so much more then just combat.

Still, I believe that many players would prefer to be a simple pilot, doing dog-fights, rather then stand around the tactical map as a high-ranking officer.

 

"Savage", which was a game that mixed both RTS and action game features in a multiplayer arrangement tried something like this and the result was so-so. Of course, this was no MMORPG. The commander, the one who could build buildings (heh) and give orders had an RTS camera and controls while the rest were grunts who slowly gathered experience and items to destroy the opposition or help build the base and defenses faster. You could vote out a commander and it happened a wee too often...

 

That's what worries me most. You'd have people who are incompetent commanders at the head of armies and you'd have soldiers who would do their own (often stupid) thing on the field. I just fear the battle of egos. Now, I'm not going to be arrogant and say I deserve a high rank or something, I'm not a good leader for huge armies. Small squads, sure, I can get them through many situations, but nothing big. I just don't want to be sent on suicide missions by incompetent idiots who outrank me for some reason but don't necessarily have the same amount of experience.

[Pho3nix]

I've played a few MMO's other than WoW, which are EVE: Online (I found it to be a bit too complex), Guild Wars (I'll give you one guess. That's right, no jumping = zero fun. ) and Star Wars Galaxies. (A near dead community)

 

None of them have topped World of Warcraft. I don't mind the grinding and repetitive quests 'cause it feels worth it when you ding level 70. That's when the fun begins. There are however huge issues in class balance and just small glitches and bugs. And the thing that It lacks the most in my opinion is character customization. I'll have to wait until the next expansion to change my hairstyle and rumor has it, add tattoos.

[HappyMojo]

"Savage", which was a game that mixed both RTS and action game features in a multiplayer arrangement tried something like this and the result was so-so. Of course, this was no MMORPG. The commander, the one who could build buildings (heh) and give orders had an RTS camera and controls while the rest were grunts who slowly gathered experience and items to destroy the opposition or help build the base and defenses faster. You could vote out a commander and it happened a wee too often...

 

That's what worries me most. You'd have people who are incompetent commanders at the head of armies and you'd have soldiers who would do their own (often stupid) thing on the field. I just fear the battle of egos. Now, I'm not going to be arrogant and say I deserve a high rank or something, I'm not a good leader for huge armies. Small squads, sure, I can get them through many situations, but nothing big. I just don't want to be sent on suicide missions by incompetent idiots who outrank me for some reason but don't necessarily have the same amount of experience.

 

You make some very good points. But I believe that it can be done. Incompetent commanders won't hold the position for long. Or, they simply won't advance in ranks. Ranks should not be bought for exp. Also, it's supposed to be a very mature part of the game, since you can't hold these positions unless you understand politics. There will always be people who tries to undermine your work, in hope that they will gain your position - and if they undermine their orders, they will properly end up losing their rank.

Also, each faction within "an army" properly will have their own favourite commander - just like in real life.

And this is the special part of an MMORPG that no one ever used. The possibility to achieve fame and popularity with others. To make people trust your decisions. It should be a part of the game where you can't simply earn enough exp or finish x number of quests to get there. You really have to be good at both the game, and the social part of the game.

 

For instance in WoW. The best guild on the planet is Nihilum. Those guys are insane. It took them three weeks to finish the expansion - most guilds haven't even achieved that yet. They run through 'Black Temple' with is the hardest instance (Dungeon), like a hot knife through butter. They have the best gear, and all of them are really really good players... who don't have a real lives etc...

What makes them so good is their dedication and their ability to work together. And the idea of a Fleet Admiral is not for the masses. First of all, they have to achieve fame in the game. Then they have to gain people's trust by winning different kinds of battle. Then they have to show their dedication to all the people they "work" with... It's no easy task.

 

I've played a few MMO's other than WoW, which are EVE: Online (I found it to be a bit too complex), Guild Wars (I'll give you one guess. That's right, no jumping = zero fun. ) and Star Wars Galaxies. (A near dead community)

 

None of them have topped World of Warcraft. I don't mind the grinding and repetitive quests 'cause it feels worth it when you ding level 70. That's when the fun begins. There are however huge issues in class balance and just small glitches and bugs. And the thing that It lacks the most in my opinion is character customization. I'll have to wait until the next expansion to change my hairstyle and rumor has it, add tattoos.

 

Try Dungeons and Dragons Online. They have a free ten day trial.

http://trial.ddo.com/