Kotor2-TSL: Better and more likeable the more you play it?

[JCarter426]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

That's exactly why I like Peragus.

 

It works better for the story. With Peragus, you're trapped on a station full of crazy droids and two people who you know you can't trust yet you need their help to escape; with Taris, you're supposed to be in a big rush to find Bastila and get off the planet, but you can't stop yourself from hanging out at the cantina playing pazaak.

Yeah, yeah. Looks like a Star Trek random episode. But it only worked once, and that was Peragus failing. I could play Taris ten times, and still find out new things I completely missed previously. Sure, you can argue that Peragus had a similar characteristic, but I can count on one hand, how many NPCs you interact with on Peragus/Harbinger.

 

Although, I agree that Taris was much better than Telos. I hate Telos. It was basically Taris, only with fewer side quests and a much longer main quest, and really ugly and dark (and not in the good way).

Another place that completely killed K2 for me. Telos IV. What the... If that was Carth's home, he should be happy it was destroyed, because it's such a cesspit. Even the huge, but unpopulated Nar Shadaa was better.

 

And since I'm talking planets, let's go with that. The Smuggler's Moon, Nar Shadaa. Full of aliens, poor commoners and refugees being pushed around by thugs, Crime Lords and stronger refugees. I remember how excited I was when I first got there; specially after Atton mentioned the Red Sector (Which, unfortunately, we never get to see). And I can tell there's nothing worse than a big let down. Get there and realize you're virtually alone, even if there are dozens of automated NPCs that will always mumble the same thing and wonder where Goto's Yacht is after you blow it up. Overrally, crap. And I'm not counting whatever they intended to do about it.

 

And then we get the recycle bin planets: Korriban and Dantooine. I wonder if they used a full year developing the game to just re-use old areas and add a few uninteresting others. And I reckon that Korriban is smaller than it's counterpart on K1. Again, I'm well aware of the cut-content, but if Bioware could, they would have made every empty dustbowls (they call it planets) on Mass Effect, actual interesting places.

 

Onderon and Dxun. Ahh, some places that won't allow me to say that all locations on K2 are crappy. Okay, Dxun was small, but it was thrilling. I don't know, it's how it was implemented on the game perhaps - somewhere where the space was wisely utilized - but it left me completely satisfied. And we're left with Queen Talia City-State. You know how Telos intended to be the new Taris? Forget it, we've got Iziz. How they intended to display a good ol' battle. We've got the Civil War. How a good cantina must be? We've got one, plus a murder case.

[JCarter426]

You know, Dxun and Onderon were the only planets that were really completed.

 

The only thing I didn't like about Onderon was that it was really short, and that you couldn't return to it (which was probably why it was short). Onderon is too important a planet to be given that fate.

 

Nar Shaddaa I actually despised the first time. And the second time. And I stopped playing after the third time. But now I love it. Sure, it's ugly, and it's empty, and there's not much to do until you've gotten the Exchange's attention. But the whole Jekk'Jekk scenario is my favorite part of the game. As for the side quests, Nar Shaddaa got all the good ones. The only problem is that you're forced to do the side quests, which is a little annoying (Dxun had this problem, as did Korriban in K1).

 

Korriban...eh...I've never had a problem with it. It's small, but that's all right. Especially if you pick Korriban last (before Dxun/Onderon part 2). If they had made it populated again, that would spoil the point. If they had made it bigger, it would be too empty. The only problem is that Korriban was supposed to be a mini-planet like Dxun, but the planet it led into (M4-78) was cut.

 

Dantooine...the less said about that one, the better. Actually, I liked parts of it--Dopak's take on the settlers is very interesting. But in general it just wasn't well-executed; the main quest was kind of dull, really just a "go here, then, here, then there" kind of mission, and the side quests weren't any better. And the battle was anticlimactic, because (of course) most of it was cut.

[Rabish Bini]

Dxun/Onderon were my favourite places in both KotOR games, I dunno why, but I just loved them, both times you visit them. The side quests that must be completed to gain Mandalore's respect, the murder case on Onderon, then absolutely slaughtering tons of enemies on Dxuns Sith temple and Onderons Sky Ramp/Temple, I loved it .

 

And I really enjoyed Kreia and her cryptic-speak, made the story so interesting, I loved the story in TSL.

 

Now, the bad parts, Peragus and Telos, the very definition of boring, what in tyhe world were they thinking?! Maybe they should've given up the pot before making those 2 planets, if I was Carth, I would've helped the Sith destroy Taris. And Peragus, the whole thing was just boring, and you can skip an entire section of the main quest by blowing up the terminal to open the door instead of finding the dead miners. What the hell?!

 

Dantooine for me was ok, could've been better though, but it was pretty fun getting the mercenaries and the guards on your side.

 

Korriban was fine in my opinion, and the cave was pretty interesting, if not pointless.

 

Taris on the second visit, was pretty lame aswell, seemed more like a time waster to get to Atris, I mean, get on with the bloody thing!! Although, Taris would've been enjoyable had they added the droid factory (thank you Team-Gizka).

 

I won't even get started on Malachor V.

 

 

Now, K1 was enjoyable, and the better game IMO, but TSL had more replayabilty, and that's a big factor in my books. (that's why I loved Warlords Battlecry II),

 

I really hated Manaan, I mean, the great Lord of the Sith was captured by a bunch of walking fish? I would've blown up the entire joint, Star Map and all.

 

I enjoyed the other planets though, and Rakata Prime and the Star Forge were big pluses for me.

 

 

Geez, I rambled on for a while, the point is, TSL had more replayability factor, and it did remain interesting through every playthrough, but I liked it the same each time, which is less than K1.

[Rev7]

Taris on the second visit, was pretty lame aswell, seemed more like a time waster to get to Atris, I mean, get on with the bloody thing!! Although, Taris would've been enjoyable had they added the droid factory (thank you Team-Gizka).

Do you mean Telos?

Geez, I rambled on for a while, the point is, TSL had more replayability factor, and it did remain interesting through every playthrough, but I liked it the same each time, which is less than K1.

I must say that I agree...

Onderon and Dxun. Ahh, some places that won't allow me to say that all locations on K2 are crappy. Okay, Dxun was small, but it was thrilling. I don't know, it's how it was implemented on the game perhaps - somewhere where the space was wisely utilized - but it left me completely satisfied. And we're left with Queen Talia City-State. You know how Telos intended to be the new Taris? Forget it, we've got Iziz. How they intended to display a good ol' battle. We've got the Civil War. How a good cantina must be? We've got one, plus a murder case.

I personally think that Dxun/Onderon was probably the best planet/mission in TSL. I just think that it was way too short. I really don't like how you only really get to go to one city. I mean this is a huge planet! I think that it just would have made the experiance a little bit better.

[JCarter426]

Taris on the second visit, was pretty lame aswell, seemed more like a time waster to get to Atris, I mean, get on with the bloody thing!!

 

Agreed. They really should have cut most of the restoration zone and expanded Citadel Station, which actually had some promise. Being forced to go through Citadel Station, then the restoration zone, then the Czerka base, and then Atris' place is just painful.

 

(Side note: they actually planned for Citadel Station to be much bigger, and didn't add the Czerka base until later. )

 

Although, Taris would've been enjoyable had they added the droid factory (thank you Team-Gizka).

 

The HK factory doesn't come until the endgame sequence, so Telos is still going to be dull.

 

I really don't like how you only really get to go to one city.

 

It's the only city.

[Rev7]

^

On Telos that is.

 

I was generally talking about all of the planets.

[JCarter426]

I thought you were talking about Onderon...

 

Anyway...yeah, it would be nice to visit more than one city on each planet. But really, could it be done? BioWare had three years to work on K1, and they had to cut areas. Obsidian had only thirteen months, and they had to cut even more.

 

At least BioWare and Obsidian put some effort into explaining why you only visit one city. In K1, Manaan, Tatooine, Dantooine and Korriban only had one settlement (Kashyyyk they sort of botched, and while you only get to visit one place in Taris, the modules are so big that you don't really notice). And in K2, Telos is all one big city (though you can only visit four places, which is annoying), Onderon only has one city, Dxun you get to by crashing, and Korriban and Dantooine are the same as in K1. So things could be worse.

[Da_man]

The HK factory doesn't come until the endgame sequence, so Telos is still going to be dull.

 

He was talking about K1.

[Rev7]

Well, on some planets you do get to visit more than one area on the planet. For example, on Telos. I know that Dantooine had more than one settlement. It says so in KotOR 1. When you talk to Jedi Knight Bolook about the murder of Calter Netic. During the investigation you figure out that there is at least a space port on the other side of Dantooine.

 

Korriban would be better, IMO, if you got to explore just a little bit more. I mean, it is a whole planet of ancient sith tombs and ruins! There is bound to be a lot more to explore. Yes, I know that it would be quite hard to do in a video game, (and I know that KotOR 2: TSL seemed to be rushed) but I think that it would just be a plus in a video game that is an RPG. I did research a little bit on the planets that are in the KotOR series and it seems to me like you 'explored' "points of intrest".

[Da_man]

Korriban would be better, IMO, if you got to explore just a little bit more. I mean, it is a whole planet of ancient sith tombs and ruins! There is bound to be a lot more to explore. Yes, I know that it would be quite hard to do in a video game, (and I know that KotOR 2: TSL seemed to be rushed) but I think that it would just be a plus in a video game that is an RPG. I did research a little bit on the planets that are in the KotOR series and it seems to me like you 'explored' "points of intrest".

Well, in K1 we saw the /sith students looting the crap out of the tombs so there would be almost nothing left, but only 4 modules on the whole damn planet? They could have atleast let us explore the caves/tombs.

[Rev7]

^

My point exactly. I just think that there isn't enough. I really do think that there could be more! Unfortunately there isn't...

[JCarter426]

He was talking about K1.

 

Nope.

 

I just think that there isn't enough. I really do think that there could be more! Unfortunately there isn't...

 

Oh, I agree there could be more. But I think if there were more, people would complain that it was repetitive and dull.

[Rev7]

Oh, I agree there could be more. But I think if there were more, people would complain that it was repetitive and dull.

Some people might find the game repetitive and dull.

[Rabish Bini]

He was talking about K1.

 

Um, no I wasn't,I was talkin about the cut HK factory from Telos in TSL, you were gonna invade it as HK-47 to save the HK-51's from being controlled by G0-T0. Luckily, we have Team-Gizka restoring it.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

(Side note: they actually planned for Citadel Station to be much bigger, and didn't add the Czerka base until later. )

 

Obsidian had only thirteen months, and they had to cut even more.

 

(M4-78) was cut.

 

A game is not made of "would be's" and "what if's". Even if the game was rushed, Obsidian knew their deadend and still kept their original megalomaniac plans for K2 that they couldn't manage to complete. It's easy to blame the publisher, but the "given time" don't work with me.

 

I don't think you can explain in a satisfactory way, why Dantooine and Korriban are almost exactly the same as in K1.

[Paddythegreat]

For me tsl gets worse the more i play it, to many plot holes and i think the story is absolutly horrible compared to kotor 1.

[Balderdash]

I haven't played either game in some time now, but for me, I enjoyed TSL immensely; more so trhan K1... but it did indeed get worse each time I played it. However, I did play it over and over again anyway. I don't know if that says more about me, or more about the game.

[JCarter426]

Even if the game was rushed, Obsidian knew their deadend and still kept their original megalomaniac plans for K2 that they couldn't manage to complete.

 

Actually, they didn't. Overnight they lost a full three months.

 

I don't think you can explain in a satisfactory way, why Dantooine and Korriban are almost exactly the same as in K1.

 

No, you're definitely right there. Dantooine and Korriban had some major problems. I wouldn't say that either is "exactly the same" as they are in K1, because it's not even close. They just look the same, but that's only one of the problems, and it's forgivable if everything else is done right--which it wasn't. Dantooine's main quest was severely lacking, and the side quests were rather dull. And Korriban was just too short to be a planet on its own (understandable, as it wasn't meant to be, but that doesn't make it all right).

 

On a related note, I couldn't stand Dantooine or Korriban in K1 either. In fact, I'd say that K1's Dantooine is actually worse.

[Knight Of Honor]

You people, please, you are all so demanding. What does it take to make you satisfied?

[Rabish Bini]

You people, please, you are all so demanding. What does it take to make you satisfied?

 

A good, complete game, K1 and TSL were good as, but TSL is too unfinished, (team-Gizka are Gods).

 

It would've been awesome if they includedM4-78, as that's the one main thing Team-Gizka aren't doing, which is understandable as there was barely any files on the planet and some animations were cut rendering it near impossible to restore.

[JCarter426]

Not to mention that all the quests were reused in other parts of the game. While this was a good move for the most part (the Nar Shaddaa dock quests were well done), they really should have cut that stupid computer puzzle instead of moving it to Goto's Yacht.

[Da_man]

You people, please, you are all so demanding. What does it take to make you satisfied?

 

Moved to THIS thread.

 

To get back on topic, K1 Dantooine sucked. The plot just plain sucked, and the plains would slow my computer down so much, it wouldn't work. Managed to get past it somehow. In my oopinion, Korriban in K1 was too long, but in TSL, it was waaaaaaay too short too have any meaning in the plot. The tomb in the caves is pretty cool though.

[Astor]

The tomb in the caves is pretty cool though.

 

I always thought that they could have implemented that as part of the Korriban main quest - let's face it, there's not much else to do. You go into the caves, sensing a Jedi or something, and the body you find in the tomb is Vash's apprentice, who has the key for the academy. That would have made it interesting.

 

Or maybe something involving Czerka and the old colony, or, instead of going back to the Sith Academy, you are sent to the Sith Temple, as there might be clues there.