mur'phon Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 There is a massive definition of it, but I won't get into the boring aspects of the theory. Sociology is one of my subjects, so I'm familiar with it, and I wouldn't say it's boring. I however question if it is an actual self, or if we are merely reacting to our enviroment. Do you personally believe that your prestige online should be respected offline? I try to avoid respecting people out of their "prestige", so no. Where do you see your online persona and its roll in real life? It serves little purpose in real life other than as a reminder of different "persons" I can be, it's just one role amongst many. Do you believe that people should take notice of the social hierarchy online but in real life? No. I dislike hierachies, I speak to my teachers with the same amount of respect as with my friends, it wouldn't be any diferent with an smod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 WR; I agreed with nearly all your post As do I with yours too mur'phon; we posted at the same time. At the same time, much of this attitude of "leaving when the bell rings" has been ingrained in them in high school and college. For the formative years of their lives, millennials, (which apparently I'm part of, though I don't feel like it), have been trained to get up, move, go, stop, sit down, eat, chew and swallow to the sound of a buzzer at a specific time and within a specific amount of time. I don't think you are part of that group, enculturation is insidious and while it may effect members of the intelligentsia the can fight against it. It takes time to break out of that kind of indoctrination. Indeed, and do most even have the ability to fight against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Personally I think its more than a theory and is quite interesting My on-line persona has little effect on my life outside of being on the computer; I do try to be helpful and kind to those of you I consider friends; and don't regard any of you as any one I know face to face. I dislike social hierarchies; people are people, I'm usually (especially in real-life) at the top of them, but I'll chat to anyone and I often dislike they ways those 'at the top' treat those 'at the bottom'. I hear you man. I am beginning to think: As long as a person is cognitive about the differences between online and offline activities, they will be able to assimilate into a company (society) with success. Personally, I have never seen the impact of a blog, and its possible lead to an actual job for a offline company. On the other topic:: When a person is hired for a job, they have to adapt themselves to the standards of the employer. People are not hired to 'force' an employer to adapt. On the other topic:: "Actual Self" was a psychological term, which Sociologist similar to Rollo May borrowed and introduced into Sociology from the psychologists. Hehehe... Yes, the subject is not boring, but it may be boring for the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 When a person is hired for a job, they have to adapt themselves to the standards of the employer. People are not hired to 'force' an employer to adapt. Indeed; so I worked 9-5 as I was asked; however you did not get the best out of one of your employee's also, universal rules are always a bad idea as people are all different, and the more intelligent an individual, the more likely I think they are to fight against a silly system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 No but read my post, if the employer dosen't adapt when the employees have other job oportunities, they'll leave, and he/she'll be in deep trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 No but read my post' date=' if the employer dosen't adapt when the employees have other job oportunities, they'll leave, and he/she'll be in deep trouble.[/quote'] What actually occurs is that the employer hires another employee, and the original employee gets fired. Regardless about them having another job or not. I guess it depends on what the employee is originally hired for. If the person is asking for something to change for moral reasons, I can see where you are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What actually occurs is that the employer hires another employee, and the original employee gets fired. Regardless about them having another job or not. You really think its that easy to fire people today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 You really think its that easy to fire people today? Yes I do. I think there has been a change in technology, which makes most employees 'a dime a dozen'. It’s a harshness of the technology world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I said either or. If there is more workers than jobs, the employees have to adapt, If there is more jobs than workers, the emplyees have to adapt. In adition, the "best and brightest" are often able to demand it, even if there is no shortage of workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 I said either or. If there is more workers than jobs' date=' the employees have to adapt, If there is more jobs than workers, the emplyees have to adapt. In adition, the "best and brightest" are often able to demand it, even if there is no shortage of workers.[/quote']Oh, iI get it! Lol... I missread your posts. Since you put it that way, you do have a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yes I do. I think there has been a change in technology, which makes most employees 'a dime a dozen'. It’s a harshness of the technology world. Well I know in the UK it's becoming more difficult to fire people, and you would have to have examples of incompetence etc to be able to get rid of them. Only working contracted hours of 9-5 is not grounds to fire someone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Well I know in the UK it's becoming more difficult to fire people, and you would have to have examples of incompetence etc to be able to get rid of them. Only working contracted hours of 9-5 is not grounds to fire someone... Lol... I forgot that the visitors to these forums come from multiple countries. Where I live in the United States, the employee pool compared to job availability is pretty massive. If someone wanted to get rid of an employee, they will find it easy to replace the individual. Lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Remember, not all workers can do all the jobs, so it is likely several sectors where workers arent plentyfull. It dosen't help the employer in a plumber firm that there are hordes of carpenters without a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Dude, I can't think of ONE person who made it big because of confidence in their online status, give us a celebrity who made it big... Dude, you've got to be kidding. I think Larry Page's online status deserves confidence. And a celebrity who made it big online - have you ever heard of the porn industry? Not trying to be vulgar; it's still true. I think it gives 'nerds' a chance to practice social skills and to learn to take some risks without real-life consequences. Those skills do transfer over into real life and can help people that way. Yeah, but not entirely. I use skills from the real world and bring them here, not the other way around. But that's moot in this discussion. As for my importance here--my status is about as important as the pixels it comes with. If LF disappeared tomorrow I'd miss the people here surely, but being an s-mod here doesn't mean squat in Real Life, nor does it matter on the other forums I visit. I disagree. I think that this is most definitely a part of your real life. And not only that, but this connection we all have with you (be it good or bad) affects us. I think that has something to do with our real lives. Why would you say that all of this isn't real? _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Agreed, after all, the internet may be pixels and coding, but it's still a form of communication. So are cellphones, phones and TV... It may be electronic and able to hide your real identity so you can be different online, but it's still a form of communication,not too much different from talking to someone face to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Yeah. I would have to say, onlining (don't make my mistakes and use that word...) is no different from many other things: If you're smart enough to realize it's conenction to reality, interpret it with a grain of salt, and not let it control you, it's like to make you a better person. I for one like these forums so much because it lets us have these conversations which we would never get to have in real life. People may be "more free" online because they're freer to find a community with much more like intrests. Also, the anonymity of onlining has many sides. Like on blogging, it makes it easier to be evil and insult people. However, race, religion (possibly) social status and, most relavantly (in my mind) age don't make a difference, allowing different social interaction, more "pure" interaction perhaps, based on intelligence and niceness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I disagree. I think that this is most definitely a part of your real life. And not only that, but this connection we all have with you (be it good or bad) affects us. I think that has something to do with our real lives. Why would you say that all of this isn't real? _EW_ Most of what we do here isn't a whole lot different than if we had a big clubhouse somewhere. Unless you have skills you've developed here that might be relevant to an employer (or has helped you to become successfully self-employed), it has no direct translation into the "real world". If Jae went to work and demanded a raise b/c she's a smod on LF, she'd be laughed out of the room (at least figuratively). Now if you mean that you can incorporate some of the things you've learned here into your education, or even networked w/a fellow LF member and scored a sweet job op, then you probably have a point. Or, to take a severe turn, if someone wrote something that cut you to the quick and moved you to commit suicide, then that too would impact your real life. As regards firing and hiring, numbers alone won't necessarily influence your ability to stay at a job if you're perceived as a negative asset. They'll just fire you and spread your work around to the rest of the staff. Given that most people aren't going to just up and quit b/c the job sucks (and most people have bills), you can't merely say blithely that.....well, if everyone quit.. My brother works in personnel at a company and every so often I hear about the crazy schemes people come up with to try to sue for losing their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I for one like these forums so much because it lets us have these conversations which we would never get to have in real life. Your moving in the wrong circles I have conversations such as these quite often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relenzo2 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ah, mi ami. We aren't all that lucky! If I may expound upon myself a bit, the equalizing enviornment of forums goes even deeper. I, and pretty much everyone here, will listen to a person with 1/2 posts about the same as a super-moderator (unless knowledge of the workings of the forum is an issue). This is because we know that online ranking means squat in reality, just as our real status is nowhere to be found online. So it bites into differentiation both ways. Granted, your best friend online may be a creep who throws babies into lava pits for thrills, but it won't hurt you very much because you'll never see past their computer screen (unless you meet them in person. I won't go there) Dude, you've got to be kidding. I think Larry Page's online status deserves confidence. And a celebrity who made it big online - have you ever heard of the porn industry? Not trying to be vulgar; it's still true. I disagree. I mean, sure, there are people who became famous online, but has any of that fame tranversed network boundries to "real" social circles? Take LonelyGirl15, for exampe (whoever she is). Try bringing her up next time people are discussing Baraq Obama or Britney Spears and you'll see what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't think you are part of that group, enculturation is insidious and while it may effect members of the intelligentsia the can fight against it. I'm 22(well, 6 days till I'm 22), so I guess I'm in that 18-27 category. I generally disagree with the "generations" thing because my parents skipped a generation, they're on average 20 years older than most of the parents of people age. Indeed, and do most even have the ability to fight against it? In time, I think most will develop it, though it may be a LONG time. And I'd like to address the long running, who'll adapt first argument. Th Source really proved my point that employers have a low view of their employees and view them as cheap, replaceable, and not worth respect. If I am in a job and am paid to work from 9-5, I'm going to work from 9-5. I will likly not leave work till 5:30 or 6 because I would finish things up and help clean up(assuming the place is closing at that time). I would not however, end up leaving at 9pm. Unless of course, I was being paid for my time. I don't work for free and if employers believe that they will be able to get free work out of us, they're the ones who need to adapt. Employers are spoiled by cheap (illegal)immigrant labor and the poor who are desperate for a job, as well as the massive push to outsource EVERYTHING. They think they can treat people like slaves back home and while I realize the attitude that they can't is hurting the market, that's just the way it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ah, mi ami. We aren't all that lucky! I, and pretty much everyone here, will listen to a person with 1/2 posts about the same as a super-moderator (unless knowledge of the workings of the forum is an issue). This is because we know that online ranking means squat in reality, just as our real status is nowhere to be found online. I won't. If I'm asking a question or I need help, having a reputation (see Achilles or Jae if you disagree with the idea that you have an online reputation) for being a knowledgeable person will make me much more likely to believe you. Especially if it has to do with experience (i.e. modding) I disagree. I mean, sure, there are people who became famous online, but has any of that fame tranversed network boundries to "real" social circles? Take LonelyGirl15, for exampe (whoever she is). Try bringing her up next time people are discussing Baraq Obama or Britney Spears and you'll see what I mean? No, I don't see what you mean. Larry Page had no huge reputation before his venture. And now, anyone who sees him in a room is damn stupid if they don't respect him. He has gained a good name for what he's done online. And there are other examples of the same. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well, to a degree, I depend on online reputation for being on forums, at least if only to be taken seriously. At first, usualyl no matter who you are, you start out as a 'noob' on a forum... And how seriosuly you're taken and how well the community accepts you into discussions is based off of how you act. I remember, when I first joined here, I wasn't a very knowledgable person. I was pretty arrogant and stubborn in debates... Same thing on many other forums I went to. But, now, I've changed... With a community like this, it is easy to earn back a good reputation. Sadly, with the whole 'noob' thing taken into account, it starts out as kind of 'guilty until proven innocent', because you're new. I, honestly, would love to have a reputation like Achilles or Jae for example, but I don't worry about it. I'm happy the way I am on here, and even if you aren't the best or most well-respected one of the community, you can always learn more from the discussions and debates. And that, simply and only that, just being able to participate in a friendly discussion or a debate, that's all that really matters as far as 'online reputation' goes for me... Besides, who would waste the time to judge a person's reputation here? That's meaningless, really. All that matters is the socializing with so many diverse and facinating people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think it gives 'nerds' a chance to practice social skills and to learn to take some risks without real-life consequences. Those skills do transfer over into real life and can help people that way. QFE. I have definately seen that in my life. Your online life really doesn't have an effect on your offline life. To an extent, it is just a virtual world. Or at least that is what I see it as... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Your moving in the wrong circles I have conversations such as these quite often Wait until you get out of college (see Achilles or Jae if you disagree with the idea that you have an online reputation) Whut? When did this happen? @ topic: I agree that one's "online status" on this forum or that forum does not translate into "real life", however I do think that one's ability to think, process information, absorb ideas, etc are skill sets that can be honed in one place and used in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 It turns out that the 'Milleniumists', young adults between the ages of 18-27, have problems with distinguishing between online life and real life. It's somewhat interesting to note that social networking sites such as Facebook/Myspace are as much as part of a person's "real life" as anything else they do (good point Ender). That it takes place online is very secondary to what you're doing; it's like saying there's a massive (?) divide between talking to your friend on the phone and talking to them on myspace. To be honest I see very little difference in such cases, and any differences there are aren't really worth mentioning. Why should they be distinguished? Often there isn't any distinction. If you mean they don't know things similar to: "be quiet in a theatre", then that's simply a lack of courtesy. They're as capable of distinguishing between appropriate times for behaviors just as well as anyone else. As a result of buying into their online status, they believe that they are actually someone in real life. When it comes to working for an actual employer, the ‘Milleniumists’ are having issues with assimilating. Instead of staying to finish a project, they leave exactly at 5:00. (Other words, they don’t stay overtime.)People who don't feel like they're needed aren't likely to be too considerate of what the company cares about. If someone were to tell me (or give me the impression) "Do your job and get out of my face", it's not going to inspire feelings of helpfulness. In fact, it would inspire me to do what they pay me for and get out of their face (i.e. leave at 5). If a project needed doing, then the employer obviously didn't care enough about it for me to care. It doesn't seem like this would be an only Gen Y problem; any company that just hires bodies is likely to have this sort of apathy show up. Instead of doing certain small annoying tasks that come with a job, they believe they have a choice in picking what jobs they will do.Again, it'd probably depend on the environment. I have to do a lot of irritating, repetitious things, but I don't really mind because I like to work for the place I do. Knowing that what you do matters to others helps quite a lot for me. According to what I have learned on the radio and television, some ‘Milleniumists’ believe their online persona is actually important to real life. Most ‘Milleniumists’ believe that an online prestige actually has weight on what you do offline.As I said in my first paragraph, it sometimes does affect how you're viewed offline. Online reputations via social networking sites can definitely change the way you're viewed by people, particularly people you've never actually met in person but are likely to at some point or another. Using a smiley at someone not favored by a social group is likely to be as disdained as smiling at them in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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