Ironic end

[Samnmax221]

No doubt, but I think the point stands that true comprehensive sex ed is much more effective than abstinence only.

No disagreement there. Some parents are just dumb enough to think that their spawn is going to be harmed any more by learning actual and important information about sex, than they would be learning on their own. Quite the opposite actually.

[Achilles]

Someone mentioned Sarah Palin recently...

 

[Jae Onasi]

It doesn't know its being aborted, it isn't sentient, it's not murder.

Brilliant logic there. Let's wait til you're asleep so you don't know you're being killed, and then it won't be murder. Your definition of life is inconsistent with accepted scientific and philosophical definitions.

 

If Christians really want to put an end to abortion once and for all, then they need to stop lobbying the government to criminalize it, and instead, campaign to eliminate the need for an abortion. Abortion is a quick and easy resolution to one's problem, therefore, the problem must be prevented in the first place.

Abortion, particularly late term, cannot be described as 'easy'. During a late-term abortion, the mother labors just like she would with a live child.

 

My thoughts on this from a post in the the thread on 'what's up with traditionalists and comprehensive sex ed:

The concern, at least in a lot of evangelical circles, is that comprehensive sex ed gives the message that 'sex outside of marriage is OK, everyone's doing it, just use a condom and go at it like a bunch of humping bunnies'. Sex outside of marriage isn't condoned in Christian faith for a variety of reasons besides just 'God said so,'--sex with multiple partners contributes to increased risk of STDs and even in a single partner relationship there's the risk of unwanted pregnancies, among many other things. Condoms don't prevent either STDs or pregnancy 100%. The only thing that's 100% effective in preventing the spread of STDs and unwanted pregnancies is abstinence.

 

The problem with abstinence-only programs is that unless it provides alternative activities for students, it ignores the fact that a. teens are horny and b. humping like bunnies can be darn fun. Just telling someone 'don't do it til you're married [because if you're Christian you'll burn in hell]' doesn't work well when you're cuddling with your beloved and have your hormones hijacking your brain. The evangelical community sometimes assumes that teens are going to have the same level of wisdom, maturity, and understanding of delayed gratification as adults, and that's not always the case. Saying to a teen 'don't do that' is pretty worthless without a good explanation and offering alternative activities to 'hooking up'.

 

The other obvious problem with abstinence-only programs is that at some point a lot of people are going to get married, and newlyweds really need to know how babies get made/not made so they can make appropriate arrangements for birth control (or lack thereof if they want kids right away). They need to have good information on that before the wedding night, not after.

 

While I agree with my evangelical brothers and sisters on the importance of abstinence education (primarily for medical/social reasons rather than just religious in my viewpoint), I disagree with them on it being the _only_ discussion of birth/STD control for the reasons above. Abstinence shouldn't be given lip-service in a comprehensive program, but it shouldn't be the exclusive program, either.

[Emperor Devon]

it isn't sentient, it's not murder.

Brilliant logic there. Let's wait til you're asleep so you don't know you're being killed, and then it won't be murder. Your definition of life is inconsistent with accepted scientific and philosophical definitions.

 

Are you even reading the posts in this thread?

[EnderWiggin]

Abortion is a women's health issue, they aren't just heartlessly killing babies like you morons seem to believe. Late term abortions are almost exclusively undertaken to prevent pregnancy complications, do you know why you don't hear about women dying during child birth very often anymore? Because the pregnancy can be ended, forcing women to go the course due to your own simple minded beliefs pretty much condemns one, or both of them to death in those cases.

 

A woman has the right to autonomy while the baby is still dependent on the mother to survive.

 

That would mean having to admit error and backtrack on 20+ years of (failed) abstinence-only programs.

 

We'd have to introduce comprehensive sex ed like what most other industrialized nations have which of course would not sit well with prudish American/christian values at all.

 

Concur.

 

_EW_

[Achilles]

Brilliant logic there. Let's wait til you're asleep so you don't know you're being killed, and then it won't be murder.

Sleeping people are still sentient (as shown by anyone who has ever woken up when they had to go to the bathroom or when they heard a loud noise in the middle of the night, remembered a dream upon waking, etc).

 

Your definition of life is inconsistent with accepted scientific and philosophical definitions.

Source please?

 

If you're going to cite and/or operationally define terms, please at least give us the courtesy of telling us how you're doing so. TIA.

[EnderWiggin]

remembered a dream upon waking

 

The other night I had a dream that I bought my girlfriend a diamond bracelet, and then it broke the day I was going to surprise her with it, then we were slowdancing.

 

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

_EW_

[Achilles]

"There was a moment last night when she was sandwiched in between the Maori tribesmen and the Finnish dwarves where I thought, 'I could really spend the rest of my life with this girl'".

[jrrtoken]

Abortion, particularly late term, cannot be described as 'easy'. During a late-term abortion, the mother labors just like she would with a live child.

Easy, as in it's a quick one-day operation that can be done before people figure out that you've been knocked up.