Atton vs. HK-47

[ForeverNight]

@Laura: IIRC there's a cut line in TSL where HK-47 remarks that the newer HK-50 Units are inferior to him.

 

Also, one has to remember, HK-47 is NOT a mass produced droid, he's a singular one of a kind built by Revan droid IIRC. With HK-50 being mass produced, it's obvious that there would have to be some skimping in the design/creation in order for them to be created in large numbers.

[Laura Muffin]

Robots are lame. Meatbags ftw

[ForeverNight]

Nice arguement.

 

There's no way around it though, HK-47 thinks faster than Atton, he has a multi-track mind allowing him to think of more than 1 thing at a time with no loss of ability, he is physically stronger than Atton, he shows an ability to think for himself -as evidenced by his solo missions-; and he is faster than Atton aside from when Atton uses Force Speed.

 

Anyway you cut it, Atton is screwed.

[Delta 62]

as i said HK all the way.....and if robots suck why are the always kicking human butt?

[TKA-001]

@Laura: IIRC there's a cut line in TSL where HK-47 remarks that the newer HK-50 Units are inferior to him.

HK-47 saying something doesn't prove jack. Furthermore, he hates everything about the HK-50s for a few insignificant reasons which make him look extremely prissy for an assassin droid (their color, "lack of subtlety" as if the systematic disabling of the Harbinger and disposal of everyone at Peragus wasn't subtle, and their use of "organic" instead of meatbag"), so I seriously doubt he would admit that there's anything that makes them equal/superior to him even if he was specifically aware of such a thing.

 

Also, one has to remember, HK-47 is NOT a mass produced droid, he's a singular one of a kind built by Revan droid IIRC.

The HK-50s were designed by Revan as well (KotOR Campaign Guide).

 

With HK-50 being mass produced, it's obvious that there would have to be some skimping in the design/creation in order for them to be created in large numbers.

Why? We are never given any reason to believe this in the game. No real technical differences between 47 and the 50s are really mentioned except their proficiency with languages (IIRC HK-47 boasts that he knows 600 languages, and the HK-50 boasts that he knows 6,000).

 

Reasoning? His reflexes are faster than humanly possible.

And where does the technical information which states this come from? Or is this simply an assumption that all droids are faster than is possible for humans on your part? Moreover, Jedi reflexes are above and beyond normal humans as well.

 

HK kills Jedi. That is his primary function, to hunt and kill Jedi.

Actually, his primary function is to assassinate people, not Jedi, although he was used for both purposes with varied success.

 

HK would be able to figure out how much particle drift there would be on his shot at a range of... let's say 25 miles.

25 miles is is approximately 40 kilometres, which is twice as long as a Super Star Destroyer. No sniper rifle can shoot that ****ing far, especially not over a horizon.

 

in order to compensate for Atton's ability as a Jedi to see things before they happen- and pretty soon we have a Jedi that's either dead with a confused expression on his face, or simply confused.

Or Atton could simply duck, or deflect the shots with his lightsaber... Just because a laser is fired from a "Jedi killer" doesn't make them any more effective than a laser fired by any schmuck with a gun.

 

Now, HK can retreat and set up some mines to detnonate when Atton is standing on them or stay put and use melee.

So all of a sudden Atton's Jedi precognition magically disappears so he can't see, detect, or predict the presence of the mines until he's on top of them?

 

Yeah, he can. He has fully articulate hands and the strength beyond mortals, he can use swords.

He can? When and where does HK ever use a melee weapon, or is at least stated to be able to use one?

 

And, since he can think faster than Atton,

Just because he's a droid? Atton's reflexes as a Jedi rate him far above and beyond an ordinary person also.

 

 

Anyway, now let's give HK a MAC-11 and tell him to close the gap.

 

Not even Obi-wan could defend from that. Blaster bolts move FAR too slowly and repeat too slowly.

I seem to recall Obi-Wan simply using the Force to stop bullets Matrix-style in the CW Cartoon. Furthermore, if bullets would be better-used against Jedi, why are they never used against them (or anyone)? Besides, why can't a Jedi just jump out of the firing arc of the bullets or something?

[ForeverNight]

25 miles is is approximately 40 kilometres, which is twice as long as a Super Star Destroyer. No sniper rifle can shoot that ****ing far, especially not over a horizon.

 

IIRC horizon line is 35 miles, so 25 is a reasonable shot, you'd have to have great optics, but you can do it.

 

The HK-50s were designed by Revan as well (KotOR Campaign Guide).

 

One of those things that I wish they'd mention in game as opposed to only in other material only for the pnp RPG that I have no interest in....

 

I seem to recall Obi-Wan simply using the Force to stop bullets Matrix-style in the CW Cartoon. Furthermore, if bullets would be better-used against Jedi, why are they never used against them (or anyone)? Besides, why can't a Jedi just jump out of the firing arc of the bullets or something?

 

Not seen the CW Cartoon. As for why not, I dunno, why don't they do that with blasters? Maybe because bullets move FAST. You fired a gun, it hits the target much sooner than it does with a blaster in Star Wars.

 

So all of a sudden Atton's Jedi precognition magically disappears so he can't see, detect, or predict the presence of the mines until he's on top of them?

 

It was a quick idea off the top of my head. Yeah, he would figure it out, but it was just something I thought up while half-asleep. Sorry for that.

 

He can? When and where does HK ever use a melee weapon, or is at least stated to be able to use one?

 

Look at his joints, look at his hands! Those are like a human's, he has joints in the right places to hold a melee weapon, he holds a blaster -which has a grip not unlike a melee weapon's- and has a strength of 16, that's higher than anybody else's beginning strength! If he COULDN'T hold and use a melee weapon than it would be a gigantic oversight on Revan's part.

 

And where does the technical information which states this come from? Or is this simply an assumption that all droids are faster than is possible for humans on your part? Moreover, Jedi reflexes are above and beyond normal humans as well.

 

Alright, the last bit was outta there, I dunno where it came from... prolly just getting overeager to get out the post in the middle of class, I'll concede that he is likely NOT physically faster than Atton.

[Forogorn]

Possible Outcomes:

 

-Atton shocks HK-47 and disables him.

-HK-47 shoots Atton unexpectedly from the back.

-Atton Force pushes HK-47 into an area with water leaving HK to his doom.

-HK-47 goes close to Atton and throws a detonator to blow both of them up.

-Atton can slice HK-47 in half.

-HK-47 can shoot Atton and lie that it was a friendly fire/kill.

 

There are many more possible ways for both to be the victor, but I can't list them all.

[TKA-001]

IIRC horizon line is 35 miles, so 25 is a reasonable shot, you'd have to have great optics, but you can do it.

Why is twenty-five miles a reasonable shot? Besides, isn't the length of "the" horizon dependent on where you are?

 

One of those things that I wish they'd mention in game as opposed to only in other material only for the pnp RPG that I have no interest in....

Doesn't matter. It still exists.

 

Not seen the CW Cartoon.

Clone Wars Chapter 8, I believe. You can see an image of it here.

 

Maybe because bullets move FAST. You fired a gun, it hits the target much sooner than it does with a blaster in Star Wars.

Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross-Sections, Page 3: "Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible 'bolt' is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed. Therefore, targets can explode instants before the 'bolt' actually arrives." That sounds about as fast as a bullet to me, but I dunno.

 

Look at his joints, look at his hands! Those are like a human's, he has joints in the right places to hold a melee weapon, he holds a blaster -which has a grip not unlike a melee weapon's- and has a strength of 16, that's higher than anybody else's beginning strength! If he COULDN'T hold and use a melee weapon than it would be a gigantic oversight on Revan's part.

I'm not saying it's physically impossible or anything, just that HK apparently does not have bladed-combat in his programming, since we've seen no actual evidence of it.

[ForeverNight]

Why is twenty-five miles a reasonable shot? Besides, isn't the length of "the" horizon dependent on where you are?

 

Why is it reasonable? Because he could actually make the shot with good enough optics and with eyes that are truly as sensitive as they should be. And, while the horizon does depend on where you are, IIRC in flat areas it's ~35 Miles.

 

Doesn't matter. It still exists.[/Quote]

 

Yeah, I'm just saying that I wish it was in the video game as well as just another D20 source book.

 

Clone Wars Chapter 8, I believe. You can see an image of it here.

 

Thanks! However, Obi Wan knew it was coming -at least that's what I get from the image- so it's moot point, I would like to see him do it against a bullet he get's 'surprised' by... or, at least as surprised as Atton can.

 

I'm not saying it's physically impossible or anything, just that HK apparently does not have bladed-combat in his programming, since we've seen no actual evidence of it.

 

How hard is it to add to his programming? And, while we've seen no evidence, we also must remember that his memory has been damaged most severely, though the game you can't active the Assassination Protocols, who knows what goodies lie in wait there?

 

Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross-Sections, Page 3: "Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible 'bolt' is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed. Therefore, targets can explode instants before the 'bolt' actually arrives." That sounds about as fast as a bullet to me, but I dunno.

 

So why, pray tell, is it that it's not until the bolt arrives that the damage is done in the movies? Also, that's Attack of the Clones, what about ~4000 years prior?

[Visas]

Atton of course.

[Totenkopf]

Possible Outcomes:..........

 

There are many more possible ways for both to be the victor, but I can't list them all.

 

Too true. I favor HK over Atton, but it really could go either way depending on the circumstances.

[capnnerefir]

You're all forgetting something very, very important: this is Star Wars. And in Star Wars, the Rule of Cool is far more important than any law of physics or logic. That's how we get things like ships exploding in space even though that's not possible due to lack of oxygen. Or the fact that there's some sort of underwater tunnel that goes through the core of the planet Naboo even though the core of a planet is really, really hot. So it comes down to this: what would be cooler?

 

So, who is cooler? Atton, who would be just another Jedi, or HK, the psychotic robot killing machine? HK, no contest. Ergo, HK would win (baring any plot concerns, which surpass even the Rule of Cool and have resulted in things like the Death Star being blown up and Darth Maul getting killed).

 

So, HK would win because he's cooler, which is a perfectly valid reason in Star Wars.

[playloud]

HK, no contest. Ergo, HK would win (baring any plot concerns, which surpass even the Rule of Cool and have resulted in things like the Death Star being blown up and Darth Maul getting killed).

 

...or Jar Jar surviving during The Phantom Menace.

[Tobias Reiper]

Considering they're party members, they wouldn't fight, and HK wouldn't have his assassination protocols by that point because of HK-50, so that's a major disadvantage.

Overall, I say Atton, because he was who I always brought with me, thus major level and skill advantage.

[Andychs]

A jedi is always more superior then a driod since a jedi will have the advantage of using the force.

 

so hard for HK to sneak up on him, or have a chance imho.

 

one thing The Clone Wars have taught me... driods are a dime a dozen, so easy to kill...

 

more interestingly... who will win? HK-47 or General Gervious (sp)?