news: GameInformer Talks Revan with Daniel Erickson

[Tommycat]

adamqd has a point. Bioware created Revan and Malak. It is their creation that got messed with by TSL. Revan got turned into a different animal by TSL. In fact the whole story of TSL kind of seems out of whack with Star Wars canon. So Bioware retconning TSL out is ok I guess... Still would have liked to see them actually DO the story from the point of after TSL. But since Revan was their creation and Revan was just thrown out as a name drop in TSL, It seems fitting that Bioware resurect him and redo his story.

 

Kinda sad but not terribly so. My excitement for the game has dropped a bit, but I still want to try it out.

[Quanon]

Yes, a good point. But IMO TSL was a great game, that brought a nice depth to SW.

Its kinda sad Bioware just flushes it out, well, I wouldn't be so bugged by it, if it got replaced by something good. Or better.

 

But after reading that, I'm not so impressed, so I've got more doubts now if this game is going to be as good, as other Bioware things.

[Sir Vougalot]

I've got to disagree with you guys regarding the quality of The Sith Lord's story. I think it was very well done and may have even been better than the first game's story had they had time to finish the game (which was LucasArts' fault, mind you, not Obsidian's), but the very different storytelling style ended up becoming really messed up once they were suddenly forced to wrap it all up in just a few months. I don't think it is that far of a departure from Star Wars canon as Star Wars has become a boiling pot for many different types of storytelling methods, from lighthearted to very, very dark (there's even a horror novel out now, which contains lots of gore that you most certainly would not see in one of the films).

 

So, while it may be true that they are glazing over The Sith Lords' story, they certainly are not overriding it. After all, the whole idea of having this other mysterious faction of Sith working from the Shadows that Revan had come upon in his journeys is clearly inspired by the "true Sith" mentioned by Kriea. In fact, I believe that one of the timeline videos even mentions that the "true Sith Empire had returned." (As an aside, I am getting really tired of hearing - or reading - that term mentioned among fans, so I hope what ever they are called in The Old Republic sticks in everyone's minds and replaces the now annoying title of "true Sith.")

 

So yeah, they're obviously using a idea from the second game quite heavily - indeed, the idea, the one mystery that has kept fans waiting for answers for years.

[Tommycat]

Actually I think I remember the "true Sith" was given mention in the first game's loading screens.

 

As for the big problem with Obsidian's story, it's the same problem I have with other Obsidian stories. The ending. And ya can't tell me that if they were given more time the ending wouldn't have been so bad. I mean NWN2 had a similarly dissapointing ending. It also had the whole wiping out of the Jedi thing which was a pretty big retcon in itself. I also personally hated how they turned Revan into some sort of Sith GOD. He was strong enough in the first one. Then Obsidian decided to make him into some super being.

[Darth Avlectus]

Actually I think I remember the "true Sith" was given mention in the first game's loading screens.

 

It was.

 

As for the big problem with Obsidian's story, it's the same problem I have with other Obsidian stories. The ending. And ya can't tell me that if they were given more time the ending wouldn't have been so bad. I mean NWN2 had a similarly dissapointing ending.

 

Granted. But the story would have been better. LA did cut Obsidian's produciton time from 36 months to 12 months.

 

It also had the whole wiping out of the Jedi thing which was a pretty big retcon in itself.

While true, I see little else by which a second KOTOR could have been made. L.A. wanted it in the first place, Obsidian was only doing their bidding. *shrug*

I also personally hated how they turned Revan into some sort of Sith GOD. He was strong enough in the first one. Then Obsidian decided to make him into some super being.

I can agree there--Exile seemed upstaged that entire game by Revan's previous accomplishments, *and* by Kreia the whole game. It still seemed like it was all about Revan and that was kind of insulting to the character. Still if Revan were relegated to *a mention* would'nt that have had the effect on the other side of things that they were "too easily invalidating" Revan by basically putting him on the back of the shelf?

 

I suppose it's just as well but I still think they could have made TOR without crunching TSL. Just my opinion, my friend.

[Tommycat]

It was.

Thanks, I was pretty sure it was... Just needed verification.

 

 

Granted. But the story would have been better. LA did cut Obsidian's produciton time from 36 months to 12 months.

I disagree here. I think it might have been longer, and possibly had those missing scenes back. But at the time Obsidian didn't exactly have a track record of good endings. It may have been more polished. but if you give Avelone more time he makes the story longer and slaps a roughshod ending on it.

 

While true, I see little else by which a second KOTOR could have been made. L.A. wanted it in the first place, Obsidian was only doing their bidding. *shrug*

LA wanted the Jedi wiped out?

 

I can agree there--Exile seemed upstaged that entire game by Revan's previous accomplishments, *and* by Kreia the whole game. It still seemed like it was all about Revan and that was kind of insulting to the character. Still if Revan were relegated to *a mention* would'nt that have had the effect on the other side of things that they were "too easily invalidating" Revan by basically putting him on the back of the shelf?

Well they also kinda kicked Revan out of the Galaxy anyway. Threw him right outta the known universe. (S)He was only a remnant. But built up into godly status. Then thrown out. So they did both. The character you played was in Revan's shadow. and he was nowhere to be seen(save the one scene in that place... vague to avoid spoiler).

 

I suppose it's just as well but I still think they could have made TOR without crunching TSL. Just my opinion, my friend.

As I noted, I would rather they hadn't squashed TSL. But it just don't see it as too much of a loss if they do.

[Darth Avlectus]

I disagree here. I think it might have been longer, and possibly had those missing scenes back. But at the time Obsidian didn't exactly have a track record of good endings. It may have been more polished. but if you give Avelone more time he makes the story longer and slaps a roughshod ending

on it.

 

No I mean the story itself, I was conceding the on the ending actually b/c I happen to know from my bitchy (now) ex-girlfriend that their games hadn't been stellar on endings.

 

I mean so far as other content and to articulate the threat and perhaps bring it to a little more believable level, if they had more time to refine the story it would have done...better. Though possibly not to a GREAT HUGE deal, but noticeably at the LEAST.

 

LA wanted the Jedi wiped out?

 

Ok, then I want you to come up with your own alternate storyline premise/point that was a worthy threat to call a galactic wide catastrophe in the making.

 

And it better be perfect in every way while making millions of dollars.

 

 

Well they also kinda kicked Revan out of the Galaxy anyway. Threw him right outta the known universe. (S)He was only a remnant. But built up into godly status. Then thrown out. So they did both. The character you played was in Revan's shadow. and he was nowhere to be seen(save the one scene in that place... vague to avoid spoiler).

 

Wha???

 

So while we agree that Revan has been insultingly overblown...you're saying TSL should have been about Revan again?

 

 

 

As I noted, I would rather they hadn't squashed TSL. But it just don't see it as too much of a loss if they do.

 

It'll be what it is, but considering all things they might not purge it so utterly. Think of how much has been since made canon. We'll have to wait and see.

[Tommycat]

No I mean the story itself, I was conceding the on the ending actually b/c I happen to know from my bitchy (now) ex-girlfriend that their games hadn't been stellar on endings.

 

I mean so far as other content and to articulate the threat and perhaps bring it to a little more believable level, if they had more time to refine the story it would have done...better. Though possibly not to a GREAT HUGE deal, but noticeably at the LEAST.

 

Well, honestly aside from the ending the story was relatively complete. A few more months would have been plenty to complete the game. Maybe a bit mroe to bug-fix.

 

Ok, then I want you to come up with your own alternate storyline premise/point that was a worthy threat to call a galactic wide catastrophe in the making.

 

And it better be perfect in every way while making millions of dollars.

 

A promising young Jedi padawan begins his trials to become a full fledge Jedi Knight. During his(her) trials (s)he and her master are attacked by Sith that had been in hiding. They had secretly been placing themselves in all areas of the Republic. Biding their time. Now revealed they begin their overthrow of the Republic.

 

Best I can do without a few weeks workup. And I would have started you off with a lightsaber.

 

 

Wha???

 

So while we agree that Revan has been insultingly overblown...you're saying TSL should have been about Revan again?

 

Not necessarily. I just feel that it was crappy to throw the character away as "went to the unknown regions" but instead the character could have been used as something more than a mention. Perhaps in the case of my story, Revan could be the master that gets slain. Or if he went all dark sidey, perhaps Revan was the Sith you meet on your trials. Some form of closure to the character.

 

 

 

It'll be what it is, but considering all things they might not purge it so utterly. Think of how much has been since made canon. We'll have to wait and see.

 

Either way, I'll be playing it. I really hope that they at least acknowledge more of TSL than in just passing. I have my doubts though. Looking at the timeline, it doesn't appear to even show any of the TSL events.

[TheRogueForums]

Wow. Great thread. It's fantastic to see all the excitement around the KOTOR lore. There is much that we obviously aren’t revealing but I did want to clear up any misconceptions about what I was talking about in the interview.

 

• Revan and Malak went into deep space and met the Sith Emperor. They were turned and sent back to prepare the way for the return of the true Sith.
  
• Being Sith and away from the Emperor’s direct influence neither Revan nor Malak followed orders exactly as they were supposed to. Then, of course, Malak betrayed Revan.
  
• The Jedi took in Revan and returned him to the light, though as it was not a natural turn for him when he went dark, there was much they couldn’t undo and they decided to remove his memories and hopefully his taint with it. Yes, Revan’s return to the light (and his gender as male) are canon.
  
• Later Revan returned to deep space to confront what he knew was out there but how much he actually remembered and how clearly he remembered it is still a mystery, as are the events that followed. What we do know is that it took hundreds of years for the Sith to re-emerge as originally planned.
  

The rest is all speculation and have fun with that. For those of you convinced that somehow we’re going to destroy KOTOR, I ask you to remember that the creative team (including the lead writer and lead designer) that was in charge of KOTOR’s story is on this staff, working on this game. Trust us that our investment in this lore is at least as strong as yours.

 

Hope that clears things up a little.

[jrrtoken]

That doesn't really clear anything up, but only confirms mine and others suspicions that TSL's canon is being ignored and even flat-out retconned. He seems to have pulled Revan's allegiance to the Sith Emperor out of thin air, as that was never even hinted at in K1. Also, notice how he speaks of preserving KotOR's canon as if it is the monastery at Petra, but says nothing concerning K2, not even an allusion or implication.

[Hallucination]

^Revan's reasons for switching to the dark side was a complete mystery, they even said so in K1. This isn't a retcon, it's just Bioware filling in a blank.

 

As for preserving K2, he did reuse the idea of Revan going back out there to fight the Sith Lords (which also tells us he didn't go back to the dark side after regaining his memories).

[TheRogueForums]

^ That. Makes sense to me- just seems like some people are looking for leaks in the life boat.

[Ztalker]

Hmmm...at least it's somewhat explained WHY Revan went. And it still leaves the way open that he made an epic last stand there to prevent the Sith from starting the war.

 

Alas, it STILL ignores the TSL canon

 

EDIT: And it keeps the possibiliy of Revan having joined the Emperor and become a Raid boss (lame)

[Rake]

Good point Ztalker, MMO's revolve around cool bosses, and I bet the devs would think it awesome to have Revan or something like the ghost of Revan as a raid boss, perhaps against his will (to appease the people that love seeing Revan as a hero).

[Sir Vougalot]

Actually I think I remember the "true Sith" was given mention in the first game's loading screens.

 

Dude, I believe we (collectively) have been through this many times on these forums now: The "true Sith" mentioned in the loading screen was obviously a throw-away line that they intended to do nothing with. And it clearly does not refer to the same group that Kreia refers to. In the loading screen, seems clear (sorry to be so redundant here) that "true Sith" refers to the Sith species seen in the Tales of the Jedi comics, in order to differentiate between them and the mostly human Sith seen in the game. The "true Sith" mentioned in The Sith Lords originally referred to something else entirely, having nothing to do with the line of succession that was a hybrid of the Sith species and the exiled Dark Jedi from the Hundred-Year Darkness (despite the claims LucasArts is making to the contrary now, Obsidian clearly had something else in mind back when they made the game); but now it refers to the remnant of the Old Sith Empire that has been plotting in secret from the Unknown Regions, fleeing known space after the Great Hyperspace war.

 

Sorry to sound so snappy, but I'm getting a little tired of people trying to point out that the "true Sith" idea came from the first game when it obviously did not. In fact, I doubt very much that BioWare ever anticipated that that one line from the loading screen - which was obviously used without much thought to describe something very simple to the audience - would gain so much attention later on.

[Sir Vougalot]

That doesn't really clear anything up, but only confirms mine and others suspicions that TSL's canon is being ignored and even flat-out retconned. He seems to have pulled Revan's allegiance to the Sith Emperor out of thin air, as that was never even hinted at in K1. Also, notice how he speaks of preserving KotOR's canon as if it is the monastery at Petra, but says nothing concerning K2, not even an allusion or implication.

 

Uh, how? Retconned, yes, but certainly not ignored. Why? because this whole "true Sith" idea comes straight out of The Sith Lords (and if you're thinking of using the but-they-were-mentioned-in-KOTOR excuse, see my above post). In fact, it was because of TSL's ending that fans have been anxiously wondering about these mysterious "true Sith" for years, such fascination clearly being the driving motive behind the story of this game.

 

How was Revan's allegiance to the Sith Emperor hinted at in KOTOR? Also, kudos for mentioning the Monastery of Petra!