Mojo Book Club | On Stranger Tides | Chapter 17

[BaronGrackle]

Even from the early chapters, I love how precise/scientific the rules of vodun are for this universe. It's highlighted by the antagonist Hurwood, who works with a very logical and scientific mind.

 

There are a lot of antagonists in this story. Benjamin Hurwood and Leo Friend have been introduced, and the other two I'm thinking of have at least been mentioned... (edited out)

 

I adore that Shandy has a puppeteering background. It's a little sad that the closest Guybrush has come to this skillset has been his use of ventriloquism in CMI, or his use of the handpuppets in EMI, and I'm pretty sure those are both coincidences.

 

But, after seeing the influence of puppetry on Shandy's piracy career (an example being his early fight against Philip Davies), I like to think that maybe Guybrush found a way out of the cannibals' hut based on his ability to identify poor flooring.

Edited March 10, 2023 by BaronGrackle

[TimeGentleman]

I'll try to catch up this weekend. I wouldn't mind stopping for a week but I'm also happy to move on to chapter 6!

[Gins]

12 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

Even from the early chapters, I love how precise/scientific the rules of vodun are for this universe. It's highlighted by the antagonist Hurwood, who works with a very logical and scientific mind.

Yes, it seems well researched and balanced. I like the descriptions of the "magic system", if you will, how you can recognize magic by its smell, how the magic was once prevalent but got weaker over time, how the individual characters found their way into it and how they chose to use it. In particular Leo Friend is a gross antagonist in many ways. The chapter written from his perspective is well written in the sense that it puts the reader into his boots, and repulses them all the same. Rooting for his comeuppance 😬

 

12 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

But, after seeing the influence of puppetry on Shandy's piracy career (an example being his early fight against Philip Davies), I like to think that maybe Guybrush found a way out of the cannibals' hut based on his ability to identify poor flooring.

 

Don't forget that one time he identified a trap door at Rum Rogers' house.

Actually, more closely related to puppeteering: Guybrush's background as a kid who played with his (sister's?) dollhouse saves his life when he gets to show his competence with dolls not only once but twice in LeChuck's Revenge. Although the way Guybrush ends up using it does remind me of the way an evil brother would play with his sister's dolls.

 

11 hours ago, TimeGentleman said:

I'll try to catch up this weekend. I wouldn't mind stopping for a week but I'm also happy to move on to chapter 6!

 

Then on to Chapter 6! The book is long enough as it is, I also still have to catch up.

[TimeGentleman]

Finished chapters 4 and 5. Really enjoying it still. I like how the details of the magic are slowly creeping in, and the sense that there's a lot of stuff that Shandy doesn't know but also even some stuff Shandy has witnessed that even the reader isn't made privy to. Also agreed that the Leo Friend section is really effective - absolutely want this guy to meet a nasty end. It's also great how he's thinking about how he needs sugar for his blood energy and how people are envious of his strong and nimble body, and in everyone else's narration he's this waddling panting creep.

 

Please be careful with spoilers, everyone - I was wondering if 

Spoiler

his uncle subplot would end up getting left behind because he decided to fully embrace being a pirate

 

so it's a bit frustrating to have it revealed ahead of time that that's not the case.

[BaronGrackle]

I do apologize. I'll be more cautious in the future.

[TimeGentleman]

Thanks

[Huz]

I dropped this for a few weeks, but I've caught up to the end of Chapter 5 as well now. It's good that there's been plenty of exposition and character development and Guybrush Jack is still only on Melee Island.

 

Like Gins, I caught a reference to a real-life pirate I missed last time round - I probably thought he was fictional. Mine was Stede Bonnet, who I only know from watching the slightly disappointing sitcom Our Flag Means Death. I wonder if he'll come into it again? I can't remember!

[ThunderPeel2001]

I haven't read it in years... the main thing I took away was the sheer lack of direct references to anything in the Ron Gilbert Monkey Island games. Am I misremembering that? Also how the general vibe was a lot darker. I do think there's a character called "LeGrande" early in the book... am I wrong about that? (Then again Gilbert grew up in La Grande, Oregon.)

[BaronGrackle]

19 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I haven't read it in years... the main thing I took away was the sheer lack of direct references to anything in the Ron Gilbert Monkey Island games. Am I misremembering that? Also how the general vibe was a lot darker. I do think there's a character called "LeGrande" early in the book... am I wrong about that? (Then again Gilbert grew up in La Grande, Oregon.)

It doesn't have direct references, but it's a setting that's about 50% pirate and 50% vodun/voodoo, and Ron has said it was a major influence.

 

Monkey Island is definitely a more comedic series, but the less comedic mystical parts (especially in the original SMI) ring similarly to the mystical parts of On Stranger Tides. Like... the Prologue introduces ghosts manipulated by voodoo objects and ceremonies. The first chapters have voodoo talismans used for mundane piracy tasks. It has the heads of a two-headed dog, separated and used as navigational trackers because each head will point to the other. That's a far cry from ordinary root beer that kills ghosts, but it's not a far cry from a rare, unexplainable root that can dissolve spirits. (And maybe the root beer isn't even as far removed, since ordinary candy apparently attracts the ghosts.)

 

I keep it in my mind when I think of Ron Gilbert's earliest plotting for Monkey Island, in which the Secret was a hidden crevice into hell itself. That hell gate puts me in mind of Stranger Tides' prologue, in which the dead are summoned back into the land of the living through a ceremony.

Edited March 13, 2023 by BaronGrackle

[TimeGentleman]

Really enjoyed chapter 6, it evoked the dread of ship battles and just horror of war in general brilliantly. The stuff about how the cool collected Englishman realises that actually he was in shock last time and now he's on the verge of crying, vomiting and pissing himself all at once in sheer terror was great. And a tantalising cliffhanger!

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by TimeGentleman

[Gins]

All caught up, just in time for tomorrow's unlock 🥳

 

I think chapter 5 also softens the earlier discussed spoiler regarding a certain relative, since he's been mentioned now. And Jack is just as surprised to learn he's involved somehow, as he should be.

 

Does remind me of Monkey Island, in particular MI2, how Guybrush learns repeatedly that somehow the Marleys are involved in many things 😁

Edited March 15, 2023 by Gins

[Gins]

Forgot yesterday, but here it is: Chapter 7!

[TimeGentleman]

Loved chapter 7 - it moves so fast! I only really expected Shandy to get captured by the end of this chapter, never mind talk his way out of it and then do *another* turn and start shooting Navy captains! Gripping!

 

I also love that throughout the whole thing he's still referred to as Shandy - the narrator knows what's up even if Shandy doesn't.

 

Also, we're getting to the stuff about Blackbeard involving marriage and killing his crewmembers in his rituals to increase his voodoo power, which are echoed in LeChuck to varying extents.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by TimeGentleman

[BaronGrackle]

This is one of those funny things about SMI: despite the design documents talking about LeChuck's obsession with Elaine, and despite the Scumm Bar patrons saying he fell in love with her... if you listen to what LeChuck says, he talks a lot about his "plans" for the "governor", and shows little indication that he's infatuated with Elaine romantically.

 

Quote

Wait! I'll handle this personally. My plans are too important to be messed up by amateurs.

 

Quote

My plans for the Governor are far too important, and much too near completion, to risk letting a would-be pirate like you get in the way.

 

Quote

With years of planning almost destroyed by my death, I'm not taking any chances now.

Years of planning? Planning what? A wedding ceremony? I guess that's the real answer.

 

But if you tilt your head and squint, it can almost sound like LeChuck has a plan that requires him to be legally married to the Governor of Mêlée Island in general, as opposed to pining over the woman named Elaine Marley.

 

(Which is interesting when reflecting on EMI assigning voodoo significance to the gubernatorial seal(s), but we've strayed a bit beyond authors' intents.)

Edited March 20, 2023 by BaronGrackle

[Gins]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:17 PM, BaronGrackle said:

This is one of those funny things about SMI: despite the design documents talking about LeChuck's obsession with Elaine, and despite the Scumm Bar patrons saying he fell in love with her... if you listen to what LeChuck says, he talks a lot about his "plans" for the "governor", and shows little indication that he's infatuated with Elaine romantically.

 

 

 

Years of planning? Planning what? A wedding ceremony? I guess that's the real answer.

 

But if you tilt your head and squint, it can almost sound like LeChuck has a plan that requires him to be legally married to the Governor of Mêlée Island in general, as opposed to pining over the woman named Elaine Marley.

 

(Which is interesting when reflecting on EMI assigning voodoo significance to the gubernatorial seal(s), but we've strayed a bit beyond authors' intents.)

Excellent observation! Indeed from the top of my head I don't remember any kind of infatuation of LeChuck's with Elaine.

 

In Secret he's mostly talking about her just the same way he talks about any other of his objectives, quite businesslike.

 

In Revenge, I'm not sure if he even mentions Elaine. He's single-mindedly driven by his revenge.

 

In Curse suddenly these three characters turn into Popeye, Bluto and Olive Oyl.

 

In Return,

I guess Ron just went with it

🤷‍♀️

Edited March 22, 2023 by Gins

[Jake]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:42 AM, Gins said:

In Return, I guess Ron just went with it 🤷‍♀️

Which thing did he go with? LeChuck has the wedding gown in his quarters, yes, which is creepy as hell, but he again doesn’t really care about Elaine as part of the plot or most of his dialog. It feels closer to MI1 and 2, where mostly he is interested in obtaining power/treasure, and smushing Guybrush. 

[Gins]

14 hours ago, Jake said:

Which thing did he go with? LeChuck has the wedding gown in his quarters, yes, which is creepy as hell, but he again doesn’t really care about Elaine as part of the plot or most of his dialog. It feels closer to MI1 and 2, where mostly he is interested in obtaining power/treasure, and smushing Guybrush. 

 

RMI:

Hm I might misremember the contents of his diary... 🤔🤔🤔

 

Edit:

 



 

Or not!

Edited March 22, 2023 by Gins

[TimeGentleman]

Folks, please ALSO be careful with RTMI spoilers! I haven't played it yet!

[Gins]

1 hour ago, TimeGentleman said:

Folks, please ALSO be careful with RTMI spoilers! I haven't played it yet!

Oh sorry, I spoiler tagged mine 😳

[ThunderPeel2001]

On 3/20/2023 at 3:17 PM, BaronGrackle said:

Years of planning? Planning what? A wedding ceremony?

 

Groomzilla.

[Gins]

7 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Groomzilla.

 

Clearly the band was practicing for the wedding. LeChuck also wanted the yellow flowers for the wedding, so he had a grudge on poor Otis.

 

LeChuck needed Something Old, the Secret. Something New, a nemesis. Something Borrowed, the bride, and Something Blue. Turns out ghosts are blue! It was a lot of work to get these.

 

Weddings cost money too. That's why he took the second job as Sheriff.

[Gins]

Forgot yesterday. But Chapter 8 was unlocked!

[ThunderPeel2001]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:17 AM, Gins said:

LeChuck needed Something Old, the Secret. Something New, a nemesis. Something Borrowed, the bride, and Something Blue. Turns out ghosts are blue! It was a lot of work to get these.

 

This is such a good idea that I'm amazed none of the sequels took advantage of it... It would have been more interesting than Golden Keys, for example. What if LeChuck was looking for four distinct objects around the Caribbean. The Voodoo Lady thinks it's for one reason, only for Guybrush to discover later in the game that they're part of a "New, Old, Borrowed, Blue" voodoo wedding curse. 

 

Be such a fun twist.

Edited March 24, 2023 by ThunderPeel2001

[Gins]

On 3/19/2023 at 9:39 AM, TimeGentleman said:

Loved chapter 7 - it moves so fast! I only really expected Shandy to get captured by the end of this chapter, never mind talk his way out of it and then do *another* turn and start shooting Navy captains! Gripping!

 

Hadn't finished the chapter yet when you posted this, but by now I have and now I can comment on this. Really liked this one. Again a chapter full of vivid descriptions, and that twist was despite the speed at which it came, well earned.

 

On 3/19/2023 at 9:39 AM, TimeGentleman said:

I also love that throughout the whole thing he's still referred to as Shandy - the narrator knows what's up even if Shandy doesn't.

 

I've seen this style of hinting at the character's inner identity in other books too and it's a trope I absolutely love. It allows the writer to write outward actions, even thoughts, matching one mindset, and yet hint simply with the name, that their subconscious has a different idea. You feel brilliant when you catch it emerging.

 

In some works, there are also phases when the author uses a "fakish" name e.g. a more formal name for a character, but in one moment, the "real" name comes back and you know, boom!, a transformation happened and now things are gonna get real!

[TimeGentleman]

I enjoyed chapter 8 but it was mostly fulfilling the set-up of chapter 7. I was a little surprised when it ended, but then I saw that we're onto 'Book 2' after this, and this chapter made more sense as a sort of denouement for Book 1 - it resolves the previous actions, establishes Shandy as being well and truly in the pirate's life now, and sets into place what will presumably be the dynamic of the next book, with Davies now set against Leo Friend and wanting his ship back.