Gameplay: Sabers, Force, and Guns.

[DeathBoLT]

There has been many topics focusing on various aspects of gameplay.. this is more on how I think they should interact with each other.

 

I'm hoping the Double-swing shall be thrown out, as its purpose was sort of botched up in the sense that the gamespeed was too fast and as a result, double-swinging hardly left you open at all, thus limiting Single-fire's use in Multiplayer to very few situations.

 

I'd like to see the lack of double-swing in Jk2 and the single-fire's damage boosted up to that of the doubleswing(nearly killing them, or killing them depending on where you hit.)

 

I also hope to see more horizontal type swings and acrobatic-related saber attacks.

 

Force powers should augment these fights but not take over. So that Force Jump eats through your mana.. thus limiting how frequently you use it. Force Speed should also should be one of those powers that consume large ammounts of mana. Unless classes like Jedi Knight, Mercenary, etc. are featured, Grip should be easily counterable, as it just doesn't seem right that a Jedi could just wring another Jedi's neck like Vader would do with his officers that failed and be as helpless as U could do in JK. Most JK FF 'l33ts' will grip you and then stand off at a distance leaving u unable to fight back while 80(which a full grip will do) of your health is being drained.

 

What I think should happen is that certain force powers should choose what type of style you use. If you put a lot of points into say Force Agility, your main weapon would become your saber, your regular run and regular leap would become faster and higher, and many advanced acrobatics, kicks, etc. would be avaliable to you. Depending on how many points you put into 'Force Agility' would dictate on how fast, frequently and strong you would be able to pull the physical attacks(kicks, punches, biting ears, whatever) and acrobatics off. However if U allocate your points into more Force Based powers(i.e. lighting, etc. etc.) and only put a few points into Force Agility would mean you would be more Emperor Palpatine like, not really doing more than lifting a finger for a devastating attack.

 

Make sure the powers are balanced so that people going for really strong Force Based powers(lighting, etc.) would have an equal chance against people capable of moving quicker and able to dance circles around each other.

 

Auto-blocking should work as protection agaisnt blaster bolts and act like the shield does in RUNE(you strafe to one side so that ppl attacking you will first probably end up desrtoying your shield b4 they get to you- only you won't have to strafe side to show your shield arm to your opponent since the saber is a two handed weapon). Long parentheses hehe. To prevent the people that would just sit there and block everything, have each saber hit be able to bat the blocker's saber around after each swing. The ability to block should be replenished when not blocking. Amount of 'Blocking reserve' should be improved by strong Force Agility powers(as the art of saber fighting will be the main focus of anyone strongly routed in force agility.)

Note: Saberthrow should be blockable.

 

As for guns, I'd like:

- The Stormtrooper Rifle to have the power of the sniper rifle in UT(as in 2 shots will do a unshielded person in).

 

- The Bryar shoulda had the Scope, as I'd like every weapon to have a use. The Bryar practically has no function beyond as the weapon u'd start with b4 U recover ur lightsaber, if such a scenario would be covered. The stormtrooper rifle was fast firing but inacurate. It was the Byrar's function to pick ppl off at a distance. Now that that role is being given to the Stormtrooper Rifle, the Bryar has lost its usefulness. If u're starting with the Lightsaber in multi-player or single-player, who would use the Bryar?

 

- Thermals: Make 'em more explosive. Their current explosive capacity leaves them only useful in certain situations in CTF Nar. If they're extremely explosive, they will have a real room clearing value.

 

- Stun baton: If u have a sneak Function like DS9: The Fallen had so that U could silently come up behind troopers without them noticing and hit them with a power 1-kill attack. I'm not quite sure what this weapon's use is beyond that..

 

- Bowcastor: It'd be nice if you could deal out some splash damage like UT's Ripper's secondary fire does..

 

I'm kinda glad that the concussion rifle will probably not be making an apearance in Jk2. It would kill any form of saber fighting beyond what JK had as you would have two jedis having an elaborate duel, both weakened in health and mana and BAM you take them both out.

 

Guns are important, but they should take the back seat when it comes to Jedi Outcast: Jedi Knight 2. It ain't Doom: Jedi Knight 2, Quake: Jedi Knight 2 or even Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight 2. Katarn is a Jedi Knight, not a Mercenary, as he was in the Dark Forces and Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight. Ergo, Sabers and the Force should be the focus in Jedi Outcast: JediKnight 2.

 

Either way, don't forget DF2: Jedi Knight but don't make a repeat of it with fancy graphics. Make a new game with new gameplay with the need to develop new strategies and new skills. I don't think I'm the only one thats utterly sick of JK's current gameplay and strategies.

 

a bit long, thanks for bothering to read all ofthis even if it is a bit unfocused and a tad poorly written..

hehe

[PreTZeL]

i agree with some, and disagree with some, but it makes sense...some

heh

[Guest digl]

the concussion rifle will probably not be making an apearance in Jk2

How do you know that?

[Guest Tie Guy]

In all of that long speech...er type... you never metioned any new ideas from JK. You said it should be like this game or that game, but not like JK. JK was a great game, and it holds it's own as far as gameplay. I think that they should look to make improvements and expound upon the original concepts of JK. JK was really good, it just has some flaws that need to be adressed. I mean, this is a sequel to JK, not a collection of all the aspects of other games, right?

[DeathBoLT]

Hmm, it was a poorly written post. I lost my focus and you missed my point Tie Guy. JK was a great game- I loved it but then again, it got old and boring. FF Oasis is great. NF BGJ is a very graceful form of fighting(unless u just jerk mouse). But do you want another 4 years of it? I want everyone to start out as newbies and have to learn new styles and strategies. A Jedi Knight with upgraded graphics won't cut it.

 

btw, the references towards other games like RUNE and all were to help describe what I was talking about, as certain aspects of RUNE, etc. might roughly match certain aspects of JO: Jk2 gameplay possibilities.

 

I would like to see a Force Agility type power--that enables you to kick hard, do fancy acrobatics, etc.--tho hehe.. something thats always on like Force Defense in mots..

 

Digl, regarding your question asking how I knew the conc probably wouldn't be in JK: I don't hehe. I was gonna make an argument defending my point but I looked at my sources(press release) and realized that the list doesn't state that the current list is limited to the the lightsaber, Bryar blaster pistol, blaster rifle, stun baton, Wookiee bowcaster, thermal detonators. It merely stated that those guns would be included in it. Sorry for that bit of incorrect info hehe

[KillerBee]

I would like to see the devides of FF, nf etc removed.. tho its quite good for jk, its always imo divided the comunity. I would rather see a game where a force using sabrest can beat a gun using nfer.

this would mainly be done by removing, or changing speed (short bursts, high mana usage) and issuing the gunners with bits of string an essential bit of jedi killing kit

also remove force surges, make them just replenish to full.. instead. still important but not totally important..

[DeathBoLT]

good ideas KillerBee

[toms]

using the second-fire button to do kicks would be cool. That way kicks(/punches) and saber moves could be combined in a single battle, like in the movies.

 

Kicks might not do much damage, but they might knock the enemy back a bit, not be auto blocked and disable their blocking for a second to allow a follow up saber swing to get through. just a thought.

 

a restraining bolt would be a cool weapon too... assuming you could sneak up on droids to plant it it would have an effect a bit like the cosh in thief, disabling the enemy without a sound. only on droids though....

 

having weapons that affected only droids/living would be a cool feature.. ion weapon for droids and some sort of dart toxin sniper rifle for the living.

 

too much jumping about should fatigue you....

and maybe after force speed ended you would be unable to run for a few seconds as you got your breath back.

[PreTZeL]

they implement something like that in Day of Defeat, a MOD for Half-Life, i wouldnt be suprised if it worked its way into Outcast

[Tap[RR]]

Id like the gunners to be limited to the force, like the more guns they use, the less they can use the force. (or just make gunners not be able to use force abilities at all) This can happen if they make it class based instead of weapons just scathered all over a map or make it personalities like mots but stricter (aim sucks if your a jedi using a gun or your blocking ablilites are poor if your a merc using a saber) also i want to see the damn conc be blockable, reflectable so it balances out with everything else. Also i hope they increase the weapon damage for any blaster so people wont just go running around using concs instead of other weapons it should be balanced,not just bigger weapon = best.

[Millions o' Monkeys]

I know this is totally against jk but i think it would be great if you could choose your own arsenal of weapons before the level starts

that would be fun

[Guest Kettch]

The heavier gun u have, the slower is your walking speed, the smaller ur jumping ability.

 

So people with the concussion rifle can only "walk" instead of running around. With "Fists", u should have the fastest running rate, "lightsabre" is the next.

 

Make it a little bit like Counter Strike

[CaptainRAVE]

I dont think the lightsabre should have any weight effect. The blade doesnt weigh anything, and that handle would be very little, so little you probably wouldnt effect running or jumping.

[Bartolo_JCS]

aye

 

[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Bart-=[JCS]=- ]

[OrIoN]

marry me deathbolt.

[DeathBoLT]

sure thing or1on

 

That would be kind of cool to choose your arsenal before game.. jsut as long as everything uses energy or power cells so that the matches aren't brief and then u go back to a ingame menu like RS does..

[DeathBoLT]

*disapointed that no one else seems to have any views on how the overall game play should turn out*

 

or maybe just a few were willing to read my long and somewhat confusing post hehe

[txa1265]

(partial duplicate of post in other topic, plus more)

 

I like JK/MotS quite a bit, and also think that the new game should build upon it ... but also not be a hi-res version.

 

I am thinking that the best choice would be to let you should choose a 'player mode' (i.e. Light Kyle, Dark Kyle, Mercenary Kyle, etc) and get an arsenal based on that. The Jedi modes would focus on Saber and a couple other needed weapons (perhaps Bryer with scope and some detonators), whereas Mercenary Kyle would get a small armory. Force balance would shift accordingly. Light Kyle would get 'knowledge and events', things like that spider-sense (you are about to be shot), and perhaps also ability to 'know' the path to follow (e.g. Kyp Duron into the Maw ;-) Dark side is pure power ...

 

As for the spider-sense, I think it should be a one-shot sense - in other words, the screen would flash and you would either see or be direted to a oncoming bullet. You'd be given a second or so to react, but then be on your own. Possibly have a 'force sense' autotrigger, and also a key to use it manually.

 

All abilities grow with experience, of course.

 

I think this type of set up would allow individuality and optimization rather than a broad-brush approach. As it is with JK/MotS, some people hate the force/saber stuff. Myself, without the force/saber/Star Wars stuff - I'd rather play UT or Oni. I like to go around with saber only as much as possible.

[DeathBoLT]

c'mon.. more ppl share their opinions plz

[acdcfanbill]

maybe the stun could be the 2nd function of the stormtrooper rifle, cause they have a stun setting. it could be used if, say you had to infiltrate a building full of techs and engineers, and you couldnt kill innocents, but of course, they would call in troopers if you leaf them concious. it would be useful for stealth missions, if you were on a planet that was hostile to Jedi, and since your light, you cant just kill people. i can see stun being useful for this purpose. maybe it would be more useful in add-on missions, than in game, but it still might have a place...

[Jimi-Wan1587246508]

i totally agree with you acdcfan, they should put the stun in there.

 

BTW, ACDC ROCKS!

[acdcfanbill]

ya i know, especially live!!