Flirbnic Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Evil is just something that people don't approve of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted March 28, 2002 Author Share Posted March 28, 2002 "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." That's from Hamlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien426 Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 "Evil is a point of view. God kills indiscriminately, and so shall we." - Lestat, Interview With The Vampire So Gabez would kill Dawn just because she's the key ("Spiral" was on TV yesterday). None of us can decide what's good or evil in a grand scale. The Cold War might be considered a bad thing, since there was so much hate and distrust. But it advanced technology a great deal (space travel programs). Then again, technology can be viewed as evil, too. There are more drastic examples. Think them up for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiKo Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 but god 'killing' people is a good thing! if no one ever died, just think of the over population here on earth. lets say for a moment, that all the people who ever died would rise from their grave and continue on with their life, we wouldnt last a second on such a crowded planet. so 'God' has to 'kill' people in order for other people to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haxaty Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I will not try to discuss what evil is according to me. But I would like to share a link with you, which should make you (at least some of you...) http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/apologetics/evil/agoodrea.htm But please do note, that this is not my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raVen_image Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 That was an good argument, and well presented. That author and I arrive at the similar conclusions through different premises, though. I don't begin with the premise, "If God created all things, and God didn't create evil, then evil is not a thing." I start from the point, "If God is omnipotent, then God is both 'Good' and 'Evil'." Omnipotence is omnipresence. Therefore, God is as much evil as it is good. If we say, "God is not evil", then we separate God's presence in this thing we call evil. We cheapen God with our words. To suggest that God is not part of all beliefs, actions, events, etc., suggests god's ignorance (that's IGNOREnce; the act of ignoring ... not the popular notion of 'stupidity'), and omnipotence is removed from God. In other words, we spare ourselves the truest horror of life, that there is no TRUE evil that is not also good. It's only our poor interpretatation of the events. The author and I still arrive at the same conclusion: Good = Evil =God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmatz Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 You guys get really into things heh... but reading it all is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapezoid Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Some people just take the omnipotent God thing too seriously. Can God create a boulder so heavy that even he cannot lift it? Of COURSE he can! What are you, and idiot? He's GOD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Shutt Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 Whatever. All I know is that your avatar is going to give me a seizure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabez Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 My advice is to not stare at it for too long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raVen_image Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Originally posted by Schmatz You guys get really into things heh... but reading it all is very interesting. Are ALL Catholic people spammers ... or is it just you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Originally posted by raVen_image To say that "murder is evil" is to say that your god is evil. Your wrong, God doesn't murder, he may kill people but not murder, and the only reason he kills is if that person is bad or if it is their time. Death is the only thing that accually kills and murders if you think about it. God is pure love and he doesn't murder, he doesn't really kill either, death does. Death will be destroyed when Jesus comes again. Jesus is always with us anyways, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haxaty Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 "Can God create a boulder so heavy that even he cannot lift it? Of COURSE he can! What are you, and idiot? He's GOD!" You are going the wrong direction there... we were talking about the good and evil concept and how it relates to God, not about his actions. Further more, I find your words insulting about something which you couldn't possibly understand (don't take that as an insult, for we all can't understand it). Lifting the boulder against gravity is silly, for gravity wouldn't exist without God... And if you want to take this any further, then why don't you think of the boulder as part of God? So.... Death was created by God, and Death is evil or acting on it's own will if I may freely interpret your post, wouldn't God have to be or have a small part which is evil to create such a thing? And just look at raVen_image's marvelous post about that subject. PS I didn't want to participate in this topic, because I sensed that I can't express my views good enough. I thought that I could add something anyway, by adding a link to an interesting text. Unfortunately, I realised too late that not many people are interested in it, and by doing so, I almost killed the topic for those readers... Fortunately, raVen_image was able to make a perfect extract, and to even improve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raVen_image Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Thanks Haxaty ... now watch me kill the topic: Originally posted by Kjølen God is pure love and he doesn't murder, he doesn't really kill either, death does. I think you are confusing your gods. Jesus is, indeed, a love god and has nothing to do with killing. But, he is reputed to be the son of Yahweh. The Hebrew tribes had many gods. Yahweh, is the Hebrew god of war. (There are many sources to confirm this. Ask a jewish Rabbi, he'll know) It was the descendants of David that decided to follow Yahweh above all other gods, because he helped them win so many battles. He is not really a loving god--he is a cruel one. Read your old testament. "Thou shalt worship no other gods before me." -- You don't say this to a people that have only one god. You say it to threaten those people who worship from a pantheon of gods. So, Yahweh became the one "true" god, but love is not in it's satchel of tricks. When the Egyptians angered Moses, Yahweh sent a plague of death to all the first-born sons of Egypt. Moses predicted this and claimed that his god would carry it out. This is not random death. This is blatent killing and it is only one of many examples from that bloody testament; from that bloody god. Where is the love in these acts? For those who may be confused by my earlier statements about omnipotence, and my criticism of Yahweh ... I will clarify: Yahweh is NOT an omnipotent god. It is one of the lesser gods and bible-thumpers are among the deceived. (254 words and one emoticon, Kjølen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Why are you going against me? That's just what I believe. Maybe we should drop the topic. I don't want another Meksilon thing happening, and they would both be my fault. I won't accuse anyone of anything, so I'm sorry. And no, God is not cruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raVen_image Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Oh, hey ... I'm sorry Kjølen. I wasn't really trying to pick on you. But, I've never been able to fathom the Christian attempt to blend Yahewh and Jesus into one entity. I was raised under the disipline of Peter(which means I am Catholic) and after six years of trying, I still couldn't see any coorelation between the two dieties. Yahweh is a war-god, Jesus is a love-god. I don't think that the Jewish Testament and the Christian testament belong in the same book. The two are entirely different doctrines of behavior. So, I attacked your beliefs. And in doing so, I even attacked you (by calling you deceived), but that's MY belief. I promise you: you may attack my beliefs at any time. You may attack me. I'll try not to take it personally. To wit: You may consider me one of those lost souls. I'm going to Hell ...Who's with me? Nobody, huh? Well, don't get too comfortable. That ticket to Heaven is, by no means, a guarentee to permanent accommodations. You can't relax on your laurels once you get there, you know. You have to keep up that pious behavior for an infinity. One mistake ... and you're down in the pit with me. Remember the angel, Samuel? "God is Great, God is Great, God is Gr(boy am I getting sick of this)eat, God is..." **PooF** One little mistake, and Samuel became the Morningstar. Yahweh doesn't give second chances. Good luck, all you "righteous" ones. I'm sure I'll be seeing most of you, eventually, where I'm going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haxaty Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Hah! raVen_image, I am coming along! Hell can't be that bad... I'll have to stay there for eternity, yet my mind can't remember more than the last 100 years, so I won't even remember that there is something better out there. And when I forgot about that.. it will seem normal... and there's something which no one can take away from me.. not even the time mixed with my fading memory... Bob Marley - Be happy don't worry Yeah, I'll be whistling that when they are coming for me! And besides, if Satan really exists, he looks like an interesting guy. The person who defied God and beat the system! Satan, lad, let's kick some royal Christian butt. * after stepping on all those toes, I should apoligize. Yet I am not going to. Slap me, kick me, go ahead. As long as you listen to "Bob Marley - Be happy don't worry" during your efforts. Thanks in advance * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 When your in Heaven there is no Temptation so don't be worried. And God doesn't want you to praise him every minute, he wants to have fun and joke just like us. And who really knows if there is a Hell, I don't think that God would really do that to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnn Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 I'm not much of an expert, but Yahwe saying "Thou shalt worship no other gods before me." just means that the Jews at that time weren't allowed to worship any of the other gods that the surrounding peoples worshipped, since Yahwe was, in fact, the one true god. This is how they taught us in school, so I'm a bit partial about it, but it does sound more plausible than yours. However, he is a righteous bastard. He'd do some incredibly nasty things just for show. and the deal with the Jews did go roughly like 'You worship me, I make you kick ass in wars. You fail to worship me, I make your enemes kick your ass, and spread you around the land'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raVen_image Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Originally posted by Darnn ....just means that the Jews at that time weren't allowed to worship any of the other gods that the surrounding peoples worshipped ... That's certainly Hollywood's view of things. But the proclivity to worship other dieties(even those of your former employers) does not come to you unless you recognise a patheon of dieties, in the first place. If you believe that Yehweh is the ONE true god from the get-go, then you have no desire to look for alternatives. You may be looking at this matter from your 5000 years after the event perspective. For you, there has been only Yahweh. It's not easy for you to "jump ship". But if you had been raised to believe that there was a group of gods available to you--each of relative strength, then you would require the warning, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Without that prime commandment, you might shift loyalties when things got bad. It is not likely, to me, that a Hewbrew would start worshipping the god of another culture, either. How easy is it for you to take Vishnu seriously? Maitreya Buddha? Like trying to adopt another culture is uncomfortable, so to adopting the teachings of another religious doctrine. It is more likely that you would chose one of the gods with whom you are familiar, rather than, say, an Egyptian one. No, the Hebrews of the day had many gods. That Golden Calf was representational of one of them. Yahweh was the god of war in that pantheon. That the other gods get no write-up in the bible is only due to the fact that David's people were so successful in battle, and thus, most of the other Hebrew tribes lost their religious texts over time. The victors always write the history in their favor, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnn Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Well, you seem to know what you're talking about better than me. The Hebrews did, however, worship the gods of other cultures. If I'd been really serious about it, I'd go and look up perticular examples, but I'm not. I know for a fact that they're there, though. Basically, according to the Old Testament, Yahwe (which is kind of a strange way to pronounce it, incidentally) is the only 'real' god, while the rest are just pagan idols. Now that I think about it, that is a pretty shallw way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabb Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 I killed myself, but I don't count as a person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itisme Posted May 4, 2002 Share Posted May 4, 2002 killed a man? oh loads! no wait! ignore that! i never killed nobody! u got no proof! Its a lie! I never killed my wife with a pitchfork which i bought from "DIY yourself" the day before! They never caught the real murderer! How dare you accuse me! I hope that is sorted out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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