shidobu Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 What do you think? Good idea? Fatal blow to the mysticism of the force? post away. Personally, I dislike the idea, because the force has been [since the 1st trilogy anyway] a type of mysterious religious entity which was innate and non-tangible. While I understand Lucas' reasoning for the midichlorians [quick IDing of "the one" and such] I think there are more tasteful ways in which this goal could be accomplished without reducing force powers to an extra organelle in your blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prowl lightstar Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I think it depends on who you are to certain extent. Qui gonn believed in the living force (the theory of Midichlorians) where as most other jedi believe in the unifying force (more religious/mystical). I think the Midichlorians were Qui gons new fangled scientific theory of the force. I think most other jedi believe in the force as a religion. Does it matter whether you believe in the Living force or unifying force? Does it make any difference to your ascension to the force upon death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NerfYoda Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I always thought that the midichlorians are attracted to Jedi folk, that way if youve found midichlorians you've probably found Jedi. I forget exactly what it says in TPM, but that seems to me the most reasonable explanation for their existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikeeba Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I think it was a lousy idea. It completely destroys the meaning of "May the Force be with you." It ruins the religious aspect of it and cheapens the Light/Dark side part in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbas WhOr3 Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 They tested Annies blood? No? So therefore a blood transfusion would enable the force in a person unknown of the ways of the force?? What u dudes think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic~Angel Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I would have to say the idea of it is an okay one but not all that well put together. It sounds most likely to be a wacky scientific reasoning to finding jedi. Like they say 'It's in everything ' so I guess that a high-concentration means a jedi. If however that they are only a way of detecting one and not a determiner of power like they are mistaken to be then I'm cool with it. Did they ever say that the amount distinquishes the power? They say Yoda has a high count of it but that could just mean it is more obvious that he is a jedi. Picture a foggy day were you can't see any cars in front of you. There are lights out there, every car has them. Some cars however have those fancy pants (which I want) blue lights that cut through the fog or mist and are more visible to you. It doesnt tell you that they are more powerful then regular lights, they're just more visible. Bad analogy I think...if you dont understand then its okay. I barely do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexual Ewok Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I think it should and will end up like the Holiday Special, and the "Bonus Never Before Seen Footage" of the Special Editions... Things we wish we never witnessed. BTW, Greedo was framed, he never shot first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbydrmmr Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Doesn't Qui-Gon say in TPM that Midichlorians exist in all living things? So, that doesn't mean that anyone can use the force. I think maybe it is when people have higher concentrations of them, is what allows the force in people Qui-Gon also says, that midichlorians "continually speak to us, telling us the will of the force". So, people like Anakin that were never trained would not be able to utilize the force bacsue they wouldn't be able to quiet their minds to hear the midi's speaking to them. The training that allows one to listen to the midi's and become a jedi is kinda another aspect. It is still a mystic religious thing once your training has completed. To me, the force is kinda both aspects. The midichlorians, or the living force part...and the training, or the unifiying force. I dunno...this is kinda hard to explain... Maybe I don't make any sense either though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Oy Vay. It doesn't ruin the mysticism of the Force. It just explains why some people can use the Force, and some people can't. The Force is still the same mystical energy field that it always was. Except now there's a reason why some people can use it, and some people can't. If you think it somehow ruins the mystical aspect of the Force, then you never really thought about the Force very much, and it shouldn't matter to you anyway. When I learned about them I thought 'Oh, ok--that's how they can tell how someone is a Jedi. Too easy.' It's a minor plot point, and if you think about it rather than whine about it, you'll find that the Force hasn't been changed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I find the idea of midichlorians, very retarded. I preferred my own personal belief, which the movies had implied prior to TPM, that special ability with the Force was a genetic trait. Otherwise, why would the son and daughter of Anakin be a threat to the Emperor? This whole midichlorian thing makes absolutely no sense. I mean, if they're just another symbiotic life-form, then why couldn't someone just grow a bunch of them in a petri dish, and then inject them into themself with a syringe, and become even more powerful than Anakin? It's just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 midichlorians are stupid. everything Yoda says in ESB goes againts any such idea. Lucas was smoking something. "BTW, Greedo was framed, he never shot first." so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Originally posted by Vagabond I find the idea of midichlorians, very retarded. I preferred my own personal belief, which the movies had implied prior to TPM, that special ability with the Force was a genetic trait. Otherwise, why would the son and daughter of Anakin be a threat to the Emperor? This whole midichlorian thing makes absolutely no sense. I mean, if they're just another symbiotic life-form, then why couldn't someone just grow a bunch of them in a petri dish, and then inject them into themself with a syringe, and become even more powerful than Anakin? It's just stupid. High Midichlorian count != ability to use the force. It means you probably will be able to use the Force strongly, but it clearly doesn't mean you will be skilled in the Force. Why else would the council test his ability in the Force? ('A ship. A Cup. A speeder.'). If a high Midichlorian count was all it took, they wouldn't have bothered with that. Clearly there has to be something else going on--the Midichlorians have to be willing to participate, or something along those lines. I doubt it will ever be explained... If you think about it--that you can't do what you said implies some mystical ties in the Force, it has to chose who--there's no easy way around it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 it could be that midichlorian show up more often in those with the ability to use the force. not that the midichlorian generate the ability to use the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdoch Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Well the whole thing with the force being inherited didn't start with TPM. In Return of the Jedi Luke says 'the force is strong in my family' for instance. There are probably more examples. TPM just gave away the scientific explanation. I do agree that it took away the mystery of the force though. I have no problem with the theorys plausability. It's just that we didn't need to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I do agree that it took away the mystery of the force though. I have no problem with the theorys plausability. It's just that we didn't need to know that. How does it possibly take away from the mystery of the Force. Sit back and think about it. Was the Force mysterious because Jedi could just connect to it?? Was it mysterious because it could randomly chose whoever it wanted to be a Jedi? Oh--it still can. The Midichlorians themselves are mysterious. Just because they are microscopic doesn't mean they can't be powerful. They communicate to Jedi the will of the Force--the Force is still in charge--it's still unexplained, it's still wrapped in mystery. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril High Midichlorian count != ability to use the force. It means you probably will be able to use the Force strongly, but it clearly doesn't mean you will be skilled in the Force. Why else would the council test his ability in the Force? ('A ship. A Cup. A speeder.'). If a high Midichlorian count was all it took, they wouldn't have bothered with that. Clearly there has to be something else going on--the Midichlorians have to be willing to participate, or something along those lines. I doubt it will ever be explained... If you think about it--that you can't do what you said implies some mystical ties in the Force, it has to chose who--there's no easy way around it You're speculating, Vestril. To quote exactly from TPM: QUI-GON : I need a midi-chlorian count. OBI-WAN : All right. I've got it. QUI-GON : What are your readings? OBI-WAN : Something must be wrong with the transmission. QUI-GON : Here's a signal check. OBI-WAN : Strange. The transmission seems to be in good order, but the reading's off the chart...over twenty thousand. QUI-GON : (almost to himself) That's it then. OBI-WAN : Even Master Yoda doesn't have a midi-chlorian count that high! QUI-GON : No Jedi has. OBI-WAN : What does it mean? QUI-GON : I'm not sure. Also... ANAKIN : Master, sir...I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians? QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force. ANAKIN : They live inside of me? QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians. ANAKIN : Symbionts? QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force. ANAKIN : They do?? QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you. ANAKIN : I don't understand. QUI-GON : With time and training, Annie...you will. What this is implying is that having a high midi-chlorian count correlates to raw, potential power with the Force. Does this mean you will be skilled? No. Think of it this way - you could be one of the strongest men in the world - does this mean that you're automatically a home-run slugger? Not necessarily. Without any prior practice, you might be able to occassionally connect with the ball and hit it pretty far. But with practice and training, you've got the potential to be an All-Star slugger. So, sure, they tested Anakin, to see what his current level of skill was. Their reasoning for rejecting him was that he was too old be be trained according to their tradition. Not because he was just loaded with midi-chlorians, but as luck would have it, had no power with the Force. So back to my original assertion, if one were able to cultivate midi-chlorians, and then inject themselves with them, one could artificially make oneself powerful with the Force. If one were already skilled with the Force, say, as a Sith Apprentice/Master, or even a Dark/Fallen Jedi, then one could make oneself incredibly powerful with the skills one already possessed. Conclusion: the introduction of midi-chlorians is Stupid, with a capital S. The previous implication of genetically passing this mysterious ability to your offspring was a much better explanation than this new crazy creation of Lucas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 So back to my original assertion, if one were able to cultivate midi-chlorians, and then inject themselves with them, one could artificially make oneself powerful with the Force. If one were already skilled with the Force, say, as a Sith Apprentice/Master, or even a Dark/Fallen Jedi, then one could make oneself incredibly powerful with the skills one already possessed. Conclusion: the introduction of midi-chlorians is Stupid, with a capital S. The previous implication of genetically passing this mysterious ability to your offspring was a much better explanation than this new crazy creation of Lucas. Ahem. Please don't accuse me of specualtion and then follow it up with rather thoughtless specualtion of your own. Your idea of Midichlorian infusion has a low grade sensablity to it, granted--but consider a few things... Who says Midichlorians are able to be cultivated? They are mysterious and clearly complex creatures wrapped up in the Force--a mysterious energy field that no one really understands, even in the Star Wars universe. It could well be that they only reproduce as per the will of the Force, since they appear to be it's agents. To say, without qualification, that they can be grown and infused into another person is rather reckless. Who says that they can be infused into another person and provide the same benefits, even? Who is to say that they are so general? Perhaps the ability to connect to the Force that they grant is a personal one. Example, in Ep I the Gungans and the Naboo form a 'symbiont circle' if you took out some Gungans, raised them in a laboratory environment, and then mixed them with a population of Rancors, would they neccessarily form a symbiont circle? Or that the Gungans would provide the same benefits to the Rancors as they would the Naboo? It would make sense to me that the Midichlorians entertain a personal connection to their host, and that regrowing them under different circumstances would meet with limited results. What this is implying is that having a high midi-chlorian count correlates to raw, potential power with the Force. Does this mean you will be skilled? No. Think of it this way - you could be one of the strongest men in the world - does this mean that you're automatically a home-run slugger? Not necessarily. Without any prior practice, you might be able to occassionally connect with the ball and hit it pretty far. But with practice and training, you've got the potential to be an All-Star slugger. An interesting analogy, but I don't see how it connects to my point. Why would they feel the need to test his skills? It seems to me that they would only want to test how much 'practice' he had had after they had chosen to accept him, and that the only reason for testing his ability in the Force prior to accepting him into their order would be to make sure that he actually has the ability to connect to the Force--that way they don't accept or reject a dud, as it is. Think of it this way. When you're born with a high Midichlorian count they are yours to direct, they were created with you and imprinted to you, and if you grow as a Jedi, listening to them and following their way, you move in the same direction as them, allowing yourself to be more taken into the will of the Force. If you grow up without the benefit of Jedi training, you might miss their subtle prodding, and you might grow in a different direction, and ultimately get cut off from them when you grow too far the wrong way. This all goes a little out there, and suggests that Luke and Leia were incredible anomalies...but it's an idea. Their reasoning for rejecting him was that he was too old be be trained according to their tradition. Not because he was just loaded with midi-chlorians, but as luck would have it, had no power with the Force. Hey woah, yeah...I hadn't noticed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Did I, at any point, say or even suggest that they rejected him because he had no power in the Force:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 heh heh. maybe that's how the reminant made all the reborns. they injected them with midichlorians. HA HA! oh and what about the Vally of the Jedi? I guess that's where all the midichlorians hang out, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHA! midichlorian are the stupidest thing since Ewoks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipp05 Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 just a quick biology note .. far as im aware for a midchlorian to be present in ALL living forms (given single cell structures being capable of life).. it would need to be sub microscopic and impossible to cultivate also if they ar symbients are they living structures themselves that reproduce etc? leading to alot of paradoxes .. oh well nm probably ought to leave it to mystic untangible forces.. than a half naked scientific explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Originally posted by greedo626 heh heh. maybe that's how the reminant made all the reborns. they injected them with midichlorians. HA HA! oh and what about the Vally of the Jedi? I guess that's where all the midichlorians hang out, huh? HAHAHAHAHAHA! midichlorian are the stupidest thing since Ewoks. I was in this debate with the assumption that EU meant nothing. I'll continue to think that way. Also, there are far dumber things than Midichlorians out there also if they ar symbients are they living structures themselves that reproduce etc? leading to alot of paradoxes .. oh well nm probably ought to leave it to mystic untangible forces.. than a half naked scientific explanation Yeah...I agree, the half assed scientific explanations are on both sides, but I felt that 'it's mysterious' and leaving it at that would be a cop out so early on...if Vagabond is good though, I'll have to start using that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedo626 Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 hey hey hey now. some of us don't understand big words. let's keep it simple: midichlorians stupid things bad. mystic force energy thingy good. btw, ewoks arn't so bad... hahahahahahahaha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trahern Valley Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 I tend to call them midicolonics, because of where Lucas must have got this fecal matter. The concept is as rediculous as the immaculate conception rip-off. "I can tell how much the force is with you, with a mere blood test. Say, looks like your daddy's a symbiotic organism!" George should be spanked for that one, but I'm not going near those buttocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 how about this, maybe midi-chlorians are by-products of the force... so, even if you are injected with them, they may tell you the will of the force, but w/o the force to act with, you are deaf... or unable to act upon it... this would explain where their higher counts for jedi come from, and the fact that they are related to the force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Yes...Lucas ripped off the the virgin birth idea (read the Bible sometime, the Immaculate Conception is a different miracle), like he 'ripped off' a bunch of other ideas. What's even worse is that he admits that he got these ideas from other places!! How brazen!! Yes, Lucas got his idea's from past mythology, that's part of the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Originally posted by acdcfanbill how about this, maybe midi-chlorians are by-products of the force... so, even if you are injected with them, they may tell you the will of the force, but w/o the force to act with, you are deaf... or unable to act upon it... this would explain where their higher counts for jedi come from, and the fact that they are related to the force... Hey, that's an interesting idea. Very clever... But what about the whole 'Concieved by the Midichlorians' concept, where does that fit in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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