superthrawn Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Yesterday, while rereading I, Jedi, I came across something catastrophic. At least to me. This also proves the point that the EU is not the be-all, end-all that many take it to be. While reading, there was a section where Corran Horn's past is talked about, and the simple fact of the matter is, he couldn't have existed. It speaks of a Jedi named Nejaa Halcyon, a well known Corellian Master. This isn't a surprise, the Halcyon line is known to be strong in the Force, from Father to Son. And this is where the first contradictions are. We know from E2 that Jedi were highly discouraged, even kicked out of the order for marrying, yet Nejaa had a wife and a son. So, a Jedi that came from a line that couldn't have existed married a woman whom he couldn't have, fathered a son he shouldn't have, and was then promoted to Jedi Master. But, it gets worse. Nejaa trained his son in the ways of the Force. But, the son of a prominent Jedi, who was well known, would definitely be tested for Force sensitivity. Hal Horn should have been at the Jedi Academy during his childhood, he would have been about the same age as the Younglings Yoda trains in E2. And this is where the whole history falls apart. Nejaa trains Hal in secret because he doesn't want Hal to betray their little game to the Empire's Jedi Hunters. And then he went off and died just after the Clone Wars. This whole history just doesn't fit. Hal Horn would have been exterminated with the rest of the Jedi, or fled. He wouldn't have been hidden. Corran Horn simply can't have existed. I don't know. Maybe this is just my way of seeing it, but that's the only thing I can come up with. And believe me, I tried. Corran Horn is one of my favorite characters of all time, from anything. To have how I think of him tarnished this way is painful. If anyone can think of anything intelligent to say, please sound off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 THis is what SW authors call Being run over by a Semi-truck named George Lucas They can take a lot of liberties, but they end up being proven wrong a lot of the times by GL, especially when they go into the near past during the clone wars. Tim Zahn wanted the Norghri to be "sith" but Lucasfilms woudl not allow him to do that, thus he had to change some history, and thier name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Jedi kind of HAVE to get married. To they'll do stufff like have kids and make sure there will be Jedi in the future. Which leaves me wondering: what if someone DOESN'T want to be a Jedi? I'm not sure the council would approve of some angsty guy with powerfull force potential running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Originally posted by superthrawn Yesterday, while rereading I, Jedi, I came across something catastrophic. At least to me. This also proves the point that the EU is not the be-all, end-all that many take it to be. While reading, there was a section where Corran Horn's past is talked about, and the simple fact of the matter is, he couldn't have existed. It speaks of a Jedi named Nejaa Halcyon, a well known Corellian Master. This isn't a surprise, the Halcyon line is known to be strong in the Force, from Father to Son. And this is where the first contradictions are. We know from E2 that Jedi were highly discouraged, even kicked out of the order for marrying, yet Nejaa had a wife and a son. So, a Jedi that came from a line that couldn't have existed married a woman whom he couldn't have, fathered a son he shouldn't have, and was then promoted to Jedi Master. But, it gets worse. Nejaa trained his son in the ways of the Force. But, the son of a prominent Jedi, who was well known, would definitely be tested for Force sensitivity. Hal Horn should have been at the Jedi Academy during his childhood, he would have been about the same age as the Younglings Yoda trains in E2. And this is where the whole history falls apart. Nejaa trains Hal in secret because he doesn't want Hal to betray their little game to the Empire's Jedi Hunters. And then he went off and died just after the Clone Wars. This whole history just doesn't fit. Hal Horn would have been exterminated with the rest of the Jedi, or fled. He wouldn't have been hidden. Corran Horn simply can't have existed. I don't know. Maybe this is just my way of seeing it, but that's the only thing I can come up with. And believe me, I tried. Corran Horn is one of my favorite characters of all time, from anything. To have how I think of him tarnished this way is painful. If anyone can think of anything intelligent to say, please sound off. A) Go to http://www.theforce.net . Sound off on their forums. There some expert-level people there. B) Hal Horn lived on Corellia. Corellia split from the Republic only weeks before the events of AotC. Easy answer. Not the ultimate answer, but I'd have to withold that till Episode 3 is released... C) I fail to understand why this is even an issue. It's just a little silly, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 The only thing I can can think to say is: Try not to think about it. If you enjoy the EU stories, then read them and while you are consider them to be the REAL Star Wars universe, no matter what Darth Lucas may come up with to smooth out a sticky plot point in the movies. With this many people contributing to the overall universe, there will be inconsistancies, no matter how strict the continuity filters are kept (and from what I can tell. the SW universe has been kept pretty loose, even in the movies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 OMFG, A FUCTIONAL CHARACTOR FROM A FICTIONAL UNIVERSE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST!!!!!! WTF ARE WE GOING TO DO!!!!!! anyways, I don't find that too catastrophic, thats really what you just said....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Ep II also cancels out the fact that Bevel Leimsik(sp) ever existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrawn Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Well, he could still fit in. He could be the one who actually is the on site designer, supervising the technical construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 I don't remember it saying that Jedi were not supposed to get married or that the council didn't want them to love. I took it that Obi-wan didn't want Anakin to fall in love and then get his heart broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 actaully, all we see is the initial diagrams of the Death star, if you nice there are some Greeblies sticking out of the DS from what you see in AotC And Bevel is the one who perfected the desgin and got the thing to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superthrawn Posted June 6, 2002 Author Share Posted June 6, 2002 First off, I know this is a little silly. This isn't what passes for a life in my book, I just wanted to bring this to the attention of everyone else, because it was something I don't think that anyone else noticed. Secondly, I know that fictional characters in fictional stories don't exist, but this fictional character shouldn't have been in this fictional story. The point about Corellia seceeding from the Republic has been brought up to me before. The only thing I can say to that is that Hal was being trained in secret before Corellia started causing all that trouble (that they eventually would). About the Noghri, well Zahn had other throwbacks to the Clone Wars too. Like, his story about the Outbound Flight Project, which seems never to have happened. Although, an interesting thought: at one point Pellaeon mentions that the first clones that were faced by "The Fleet" (meaning Imperial) were highly unstable. Oh, the hiddent meanings one can draw from that. Like, this coalition was in the future considered the Empire, and that these clones could be considered unstable (interesting presequel reprecussions, or just another EU mistake?) About Jedi not being able to marry, the fact is they weren't, at least not at the time of E2. Obi-Wan says to Anakin when he wants to go chase Amidala: "Don't, you'll be kicked out of the Jedi Order" (I know, that's kind of strangely worded.) Not to mention she says "I thought you weren't allowed to love?" Another point: Jedi don't have to marry. The Force will sometimes randomly pick people to be Force sensitive. i.e. Anakin Skywalker. Now, I'm not saying they're all concieved my midichlorians, but it's a start. But anyway, I guess I should stop rambling now, and go see what the people on TheForce.net, or whatever it is, have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 Wow...you want to rewrite the EU but you don't know theforce.net is? O.o And Jedi aren't a separate race...Force sensitivity may be more common in bloodlines but it pops up randomly in normal families... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 i think the great example of Force randomness is Dorsk 81, who is a CLONE and all of the 80 clones before him never had one touch of force sensitivity. heck, even Dorsk 82 never had it in him either. And dont bring up the Immaclate conception of Anakin, George just didn't want to have to bring sex into the star wars universe. No one has sex in star wars. Kissing is the farthest they ever go, that is how they make babies, by kissing of course thank the maker Luke and Liea never had a kid as a result of thier kisses. And NEVER kiss a wookie, you end up having Ewoks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Your expert is here. 1. Correlian Jedi are the exception, they can marry, have kids train them, have green robes and silver sabers. 2. After Nejaa died Hal's mother married Rostec Horn, a member of Corsec, Rostec adopted Hal and erased all records of the Halcyon line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 No wonder Corellia hates the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Originally posted by K_Kinnison And dont bring up the Immaclate conception of Anakin... Immaculate Conception of Anakin? So...Anakin was conceived without original sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Those rebellious Corellians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Beastie Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Actually, Jedi are allowed to get married, as long as it doesn't get in the way of their service to the Jedi Order. Take Ki-Adi-Mundi (the cone-headed guy who sits next to Yoda), he's married. About four times, if memory serves (cereans have a polygamist culture; one "Honour-wife" and several "Bond-wives"). He also has several children, including at least one teenaged daughter. No word on if any of the children ended up Force-Sensitive. And I recall Plo Koon (another Councillor) had a niece who was undergoing training (okay, I know its not the same thing, but there are family entanglements). And of course, Yoda has a reputation for flirting with anything female. It wasn't Anakin's relationship with Amidala that they were all worried about, it was the fact that that relationship was getting in the way of his duties. Note that in their meeting with her, Obi-Wan was more upset at Anakin's contradicting him than he was about the flirting (he even seemed to tease Anakin about her after she walked out). Even the actual marriage itself wouldn't be any big thing, except for the fact that he didn't notify his Master or the Council, both of whom should've been informed even if only as a formality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Actually marrage is a big deal, it stirs up too many emotions. Thats why its frowned apon, although I think if you went to the council and made a case they'd probably let you marry. Only your partner would probably have to go before the council. Imagine Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Padme at a dinner table. Mace: So Padme, what do you do for a living? You get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Originally posted by Flying Beastie Actually, Jedi are allowed to get married, as long as it doesn't get in the way of their service to the Jedi Order. Take Ki-Adi-Mundi (the cone-headed guy who sits next to Yoda), he's married. About four times, if memory serves (cereans have a polygamist culture; one "Honour-wife" and several "Bond-wives"). He also has several children, including at least one teenaged daughter. No word on if any of the children ended up Force-Sensitive. And I recall Plo Koon (another Councillor) had a niece who was undergoing training (okay, I know its not the same thing, but there are family entanglements). And of course, Yoda has a reputation for flirting with anything female. It wasn't Anakin's relationship with Amidala that they were all worried about, it was the fact that that relationship was getting in the way of his duties. Note that in their meeting with her, Obi-Wan was more upset at Anakin's contradicting him than he was about the flirting (he even seemed to tease Anakin about her after she walked out). Even the actual marriage itself wouldn't be any big thing, except for the fact that he didn't notify his Master or the Council, both of whom should've been informed even if only as a formality. Wow, really? I was under the impression that it was forbidden...can I have confirmation? ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Most force sensitive people are born in families that already have a history of being able to use the force. If the Jedi forbid marragies then one of two things would have to happen to get little jedi. 1.Jedi have one night stands with no strings attached. 2.Their numbers would be extremely small. I mean very very small if they weren't allowed to have families and childern. For some reason I don't see the Jedi going for the one night stand bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Still wondering: Originally posted by Taarkin Which leaves me wondering: what if someone DOESN'T want to be a Jedi? I'm not sure the council would approve of some angsty guy with powerfull force potential running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 you WOULDN'T. They'd have spend their WHOLE LIVES doing that stuff and would be taught to enjoy it. They wouldn't know if they wanted to not like it or not. Scarey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Only Jedi training can unleash the true force potential. Otherwise, you are just a person with a strong will and faster than normal reflexes. Like Anakin was before he was discovered. In the classic trilogy, Leia has as much force as Luke, but with no training she couldn't really tap it like he could. She was highly resistant to mind probes, and better than average with a gun, but without further training she couldn't use it the same way. There must be millions of lifeforms with the force to certain degrees who never learn how to control it. If someone refuses Jedi training the council must have to let them. Even though Anakin was clearly so strong in the force the council originally refused to train him, so they clearly don't feel that natural force potential is a problem. There are bound to be numerous dropouts and washouts from the program as well, with various levels of skill. I'm sure these folks are watched much more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Bastard Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 After reading the first post I'm thinking "what's sad about some stupid character in a book?" Now I see. You're all sad:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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