I Pledge Allegiance.

[Admiral Odin]

the whole thing is you are not forced to say the pledge in the first place.

[Taarkin]

Originally posted by Admiral

the whole thing is you are not forced to say the pledge in the first place.

PRE-FREAKIN-CISELY

[Redwing]

It's hopeless, you know. Everyone is still going to argue about it.

[Cmdr. Cracken]

*sigh* our elders (parent age people) are making this country SUCK to live in....

 

And people wanna know WHY i wanna move back to Korea. sheesh.

[Jem]

I'm planning on taking my next vacations in Korea, it's a kick arse country and I have two friends over there (well one of'em is still here in Senegal for another year....). I also learnt a bit of korean during my rare free times.

 

Country I really want to discover: China.

 

Happy Canada Day by the way

[Zargon]

Originally posted by superthrawn

Heh, you guys are all wrong. Plastics are best. You just watch. Five years from now, there will be no paper money. It'll be worthless, except in some of those esoteric countries that you put on your pedestals, and bow to, like ancient Romans before the throne of Ceaser. Yes, I'm talking about you British and ::shudders:: Austrailians. Home of Steve Irwin... craziest man alive, who should be dead. You'll become so attached to your paper money that it will begin to take on some sort of significance to you other than that of simple currency. And so, as the rest of the world surpasses you with electronic transactions exclusively, you will continue your pitiful existence coutning out change, and wasting energy carrying wallets. I laugh at you.

 

I will use my paper moeny when I go get a slurpee from 7-11 in 5 years, so you can kiss my ass. What the hell do you have against England and Australia? They are both beautiful countries, and Australia has some badass GM cars too......

 

Oh, and about being outraged by the pledge: I am extremely conservative, as are the vast majority of people in my area of the Midwest. We listen to Rush Limbaugh, cut taxes, and we all voted for President Bush. This action is outrageous

 

You are a moron, please do not put me anywhere near you, I am from the midwest, voted for Bush(oh shush, gore was worse, notice i didnt say bush was better). Rush Limbaugh is a fat ass half-retarded windbag. I have nthing against cutting taxes and cutting back on unemployment and welfare(oh believe me I have my reasons). I do find this as a colossal waste o tax monety and time, but its not outrageous. They MAKE people say the pledge in school, and they cannot because of "God", so there, argument over.

 

I quite honestly believe that if you people have a problem with the words "Under God," then you can go form your own private schools where you can say whatever you want.

Should you heed your own advice pot?

 

Or, even better. Home school your children. We Christians do.

 

Homeschooling is the best way to hold back children possible. You cannot replace 8 teachers, and the skills they learn from interacting with hundreds of other kids everyday. 'We christians do', I was raised with a 110% christian upbringing, and went through public schools the whole way, including now in college. Why don't you stop pigeonholing and bringing us down with you.

 

But whatever you choose, leave us and the way we raise our children alone. Not all of us can afford to send our kids to private schools. Believe me, if we could, we would. So, we must do with the absolutely atrocious Public Schools

 

Oh but all you christians homeschool your kids, so why are you putting up with the 'atrocious public schools'?

 

But whatever you do, don't impose your beliefs on us. The country would be better off without you.

 

Liberals.

 

as opposed to ultra conservative make the counrty the way I want it whiny bleeding heart I'm a victim christian?

 

I'd take liberal any day over you.

 

Tell Kettle I said Hi when you go home you hypocrite.

[Jem]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Zargon has left the building!

 

Seriously, I think superduperthrawn should use the term "I" instead of "WE"

[Flying Beastie]

I want to be the minority

I don't need your authority

Down with the moral majority

'Cause I want to be the minority

 

I pledge allegiance to the underworld

One nation under dog

There of which I stand alone

A face in the crowd

Unsung, against the mold

Without a doubt

Singled out

The only way I know

 

I want to be the minority

I don't need your authority

Down with the moral majority

'Casue I want to be the minority

 

Stepped out of the line

Like a sheep runs from the herd

Marching out of time

To my own beat now

The only way I know

 

One light, one mind

Flashing in the dark

Blinded by the silence of a thousand broken hearts

"For crying out loud" she screamed unto me

A free for all

F*** 'em all

You are your own sight

 

I want to be the minority

I don't need your authority

Down with the moral majority

'Cause I want to be the minority

 

Minority, Green Day.

 

It seemed apropos.

[Commander 598]

[Zargon]

Originally posted by Jem

 

 

Seriously, I think superduperthrawn should use the term "I" instead of "WE"

 

exactly.

[superthrawn]

All right, first off, Zargon, you need to stop flaming. That said, let's move on to the issues.

 

Atheism is a religious belief, and is therefore a religion. (Think hate not being the opposite of love.) So, you're imposing your religion on us when you take out the words. Secondly, there is no clause in the Constitution that says anything about the seperation of Church and State, (A major point on this whole issue, I'm surprised none of you brought it up.) since the Pledge isn't mandatory, it does not violate the Constitution, which says: "The State shall not mandate an official religion."

 

Secondly: Rush Limbaugh has some excellent points. I was not kidding about listening to him, or liking him. people simply can't stand the way conservatives talk anymore. Plain and simple.

 

Thirdly: About the schooling. We do have Christian schools. They're all over the country. And, they're providing a much better, and truer education to those people they school. Evolution. It's outdated. Get over it. Unfortunately, my parents cannot afford to send me to a private school. They are simply too expensive. ( I hope school voutures will pass by the time my kids are born.) And, since my parents have to work all day, there is no way they can homeschool me, and besides, I'm not subject to the same horrendous public schooling you are. My school is one of the top 100 public schools in the Nation. And *gasp* people here agree with me! That's why I say we. Not because I'm speaking for millions, just my community, my family, my friends. Personally, I think more people need to stand up for what they believe in in this world. So don't accuse me of taking a "bleeding heart I'm a victim Christian" stance. Quite frankly, when you say that, it makes me ashamed to say I'm talking to you. Anyone who would say that is sick.

 

Sorry to everyone else who reads this, but I need to address everything Zargon decided to flame about my way of life.

 

Now then: Homeschooling is not the best way to hold kids back. It is actually the best way to bring out their potential. A public school can only go as fast as the slowest student, where a homeschooler can learn at his own pace. Secondly, when homeschooled, you don't have to take all the crap the liberals in Washington say you have to learn in school. Did you know Creationism isn't even taught in most schools anymore? When they took prayer out of school, they killed schools. When they took out the Ten Commandments, they killed our children. When they took out the Pledge, they killed our Patriotism. When they take God out, they'll kill the Country.

 

So, Zargon. This is a free message board, and if you choose to read my opinion or not is your deal, not mine. But, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't flame me anymore.

[Jem]

Oh will you stop with all this nonsense already superthrawn. What's your problem anyways? I don't see how all this pledge law thingy should be outrageous, shocking, unforgivable or whatever kind of bull**** your claiming it is. Yeah I know what you're gonna say "Yeah Jem talk all you want you hairless donkey, you can't understand because you're not american, all of this is too much "above" you for you to grasp the whole yadda yadda yadda...". I mean c'mon what's the big deal, these are just words! Like edlib said, they mean nothing, only your faith on what you believe in means something and nothing else. I once met this very wise man in Israel who made us visite the country's holy sites and all of these sacred locations and everyone rushed to touch them with the tip of their fingers as if it was like touching god and that's when he said: "None of these site are 100% sure of being the actual place the things occured, they are only symbolic and the only thing that is truly 100% sure and real is your faith and belief on the events that occured, and nothing else matters". It's as if a priest can't be a priest if he doesn't own a cross or a patriot can't be one if he doesn't know his country's anthem. Or in the other way around, a priest is considered one as long as he has his cross and robes and faith doesn't matter, just the appearance. The fact is you're a material person, you need "pseudo-proof" for your faith...

 

And seriously, I don't understand what's the point in making such a fuss about words, like Assassin or Redwing said, there are really MUCH MORE important things to worry about. Like just yesterday, by reading an e-mail sent by one of my brother in laws I learnt that in China "Baby-soup" is popular, and that's real human babies they use. He also sent the pics that show every step of its preparation and I can tell you that in ain't a pretty sight but a horrible one and THAT is SHOCKING, THAT is OUTRAGEOUS, THAT is UNFORGIVABLE unlike some words that may sound and feel good but don't mean nothing without faith. Your faith on it's own is all you need.

[Innror]

i live in Denmark, so i can't say i know a lot about the american system, but i'll still voice my opinion on some of the things you discuss . You say public schools generally suck, and yet you want to cut taxes? shouldn't you instead spend some more money on the public schools, and get better education for underpriviliged people? Another point: Here in Europe no one takes Creationism seriously, i don't know how it is in the States, but as far as i know most scientists thinks it's worthless, so why should children be taught it? To me that would be religious indoctrination. There, my 2 cents

[Keyan Farlander]

Originally posted by Innror

You say public schools generally suck, and yet you want to cut taxes? shouldn't you instead spend some more money on the public schools, and get better education for underpriviliged people?

 

No. I think we have plenty of tax money in general, but it's just not going to the right places. If we cut stupid things and put the money toward schools, it would be fine. But really, sometimes the suckiness of public schools has nothing to do with there not being enough money, it's just that the people in charge don't know what they're doing. They have very idiotic about education. "Maybe if all the students feel good about themselves, they'll magically know how to read and multiply."

 

Another point: Here in Europe no one takes Creationism seriously, i don't know how it is in the States, but as far as i know most scientists thinks it's worthless, so why should children be taught it? To me that would be religious indoctrination. There, my 2 cents

 

I wouldn't say it's completely worthless, but it really isn't science, as we define science, so I don't know why it should be taught in science class. This whole debate (and really "Creationism" itself) stems from the (wrong) idea that some people have that God/Religion/The Bible/Whatever is the exact opposite of the theory of evolution - that they cannot both be right. But they can. However, the theological aspects should be taught in classes on ... *gasp* ... theology. If there are no theology classes, then, too bad, I guess. There will be plenty of theology classes you can take in college or you can go read books.

 

In my opinion, though, there are better things to be learning in science classes than the theory of evolution, beyond a quick reference anyway, since most high school students are unable to perform a good disection or make a decent titration. You have to get those basics down, and it doesn't seem to be happening. I got burned when I got to college because I had not mastered the science basics I needed in high school, and I had to do a lot of catching up. And I got all A's in high school science, too!

[Taarkin]

Originally posted by superthrawn

Atheism is a religious belief, and is therefore a religion. (Think hate not being the opposite of love.)

Dictionary.com says:

re·li·gion Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)

n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

So atheism != religion, unless maybe if it is "pursued with a zeal or conscientious devotion", which usualy isn't.

 

So, you're imposing your religion on us when you take out the words.

Oh come ON. By this logic, EVERY SINGLE TIME a government official or document does NOT MENTION GOD, he or it is IMPOSING ATHESIM ON YOU!!!. You have mentioned God and Christianity several times on this thread, so STOP IMPOSING YOUR BELIEFS ON MY CHILDREN!

 

 

 

since the Pledge isn't mandatory...

That's exactly what the ruling says. So I guess you agree with it after all.

 

 

 

Thirdly: About home schooling.

Homeschooling is only good if you're as smart as 6 high school teachers put together.

[Flying Beastie]

Originally posted by Taarkin

Homeschooling is only good if you're as smart as 6 high school teachers put together.

 

As a high school graduate/survivor, I feel compelled to point out that the average ten year-old is smarter than six high school teachers.

[Redwing]

Originally posted by Taarkin

Homeschooling is only good if you're as smart as 6 high school teachers put together.

 

I can see you haven't been homeschooled. Homeschooling is generally death on your social life, but the learning side is MUCH better that learning at high school. I can tell you that from experience.

[Tierce]

Thats true..but you also need social skills that you learn in regular schools to deal with real life. With homeschooling the education may be better, but you are not faced with the challenge of dealing with other diverse human beings. And frankly you need more social skills than book smarts.

[Keyan Farlander]

Not really. All the social skills in the world aren't going to do you much good if you don't have the academic skills to back them up. And there are other places you can get social interaction. Summer camp, for example. Or how about the kids in the neighborhood? I got a lot more socializing done just playing with the other kids who lived around me than I ever did in school. Heck, if I had enough money so that I didn't have to work (and I had kids), I'd homeschool my kids. I have far more confidence in my own ability to teach my children than I have in public schools. I endured public schools for 13 years. They suck. Seriously. Some of the smartest people I knew growing up were homeschooled.

[Nute Gunray]

I wander through here to read the SWG forum and I get sucked into spewing out my (correct) opinions.

 

Pledge:

OH NOS MY CHILD IS BEING THE IMPOSED AT BY HAVING TO HEAR THE WORD GOD OMG (<--irony)!!@

I don't CARE. In the average day, I see/hear a lot of stuff I don't like. I DEAL WITH IT and move on. I hate seeing fat women without enough clothes on. I hate loud 13 year old girls using cell phones as walkie talkies. I hate seeing two guys holding hands. But I don't go out the 1st circuit court (i think I'm in 1st) screaming I HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO SEE FAT CHICKS!!@ Too much bitching I sense. Notice it was a single guy that went after this, not, say, the ACLU (surprise surprise, THEY didn't latch onto this and this is RIGHT UP THEIR ALLEY too). Also, I don't like taking things away from the government in that sense. Like the constitution, we don't take pieces away from. we make NEW pieces and make the old pieces not apply. Frankly I don't really care about this. I'm enjoy no changes to anything. Hell, Daschle and I agreed on something and that's rare.

 

Creationism:

Is this actually taught in any non-Catholic/religious school? I don't think so. I've always thought that to an odd thing to argue about, as I don't think it actually happens. oh well.

 

home-schooling:

I never learned anything in school. watch TV, you'll learn more. assuming you're watching the right stuff. read a book you lazy kids.

[Redwing]

Wow, Nute's back. I thought he had his password changed.

 

I agree, though.

[Taarkin]

Huh. I guess I'm just spoiled by good teachers yet stupid parents.

[Zargon]

Originally posted by superthrawn

 

Atheism is a religious belief, and is therefore a religion.

Not believing in religion is a religion? oooooooooooook

 

(Think hate not being the opposite of love.) So, you're imposing your religion on us when you take out the words.

This is so retarded, you were homeschooled weren't you? If so, you proved my point on THAT one....

 

you obiously did not take a good logic class, becuase that statement would have gotten you a failing grade.

 

I hope school voutures will pass by the time my kids are born.) And, since my parents have to work all day, there is no way they can homeschool me, and besides, I'm not subject to the same horrendous public schooling you are.

 

I liked my public schooling that I got for 13 years. School vouchers are bull****, taxes go for PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATION, not to pay someone else for it. I am paying tax money to send your kid to a private school, you want something special, you foot the bill.

 

That's why I say we. Not because I'm speaking for millions, just my community, my family, my friends.

 

You said "we" in the context of, 'I live in the midwest', maybe you should pay more attention to context.

 

Personally, I think more people need to stand up for what they believe in in this world.

 

You forogt to say that as long they agree with you, becuase you sure don't seem to like me expressing my opinion.

 

So don't accuse me of taking a "bleeding heart I'm a victim Christian" stance. Quite frankly, when you say that, it makes me ashamed to say I'm talking to you. Anyone who would say that is sick.

 

I am sick? That's so not new news whatsoever.

 

Sorry to everyone else who reads this.

 

ditto.

 

Now then: Homeschooling is not the best way to hold kids back. It is actually the best way to bring out their potential. A public school can only go as fast as the slowest student, where a homeschooler can learn at his own pace. Secondly, when homeschooled, you don't have to take all the crap the liberals in Washington say you have to learn in school. Did you know Creationism isn't even taught in most schools anymore? When they took prayer out of school, they killed schools. When they took out the Ten Commandments, they killed our children. When they took out the Pledge, they killed our Patriotism. When they take God out, they'll kill the Country.

 

How about religous zealot? does that work better for you? I haven't said the pledge of allegiance since 5th grade, and I would put money down that I am a biger patriot than you could ever hope to be. You can pray in school all you want, and I don;t recall the making murder theft adultery and lying legal in schools, so how are the 10 commandments 'out of school'? Your problem, im my ever so humble(and mostly right) opinion, is that you are unable to do the one thing you HAVE to be able to d oin this country, see things from everyone else's point of view. Just because you like th epledge the way it was, doesn't mean it has to stay that way if the MAJORITY doesn't like it. Thats how it works here, if you don't like it, too bad, you still lose. The United States cannot cater to yor minority segment of the population, just because you want it too. And, I am sure you are estatic, that the ruling was pushed off for a while. Here in Illinois the Governer signed a bill requiring the Pledge to be said schoolwide everyday in all public lower education schools.

 

 

So, Zargon. This is a free message board, and if you choose to read my opinion or not is your deal, not mine. But, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't flame me anymore.

 

I'll quote that chick from 10 things I hate about you.

 

Expressing ones opinion is not an act of terrorism.

[\quote]

 

That was hardly a flame, flames are retarded posts with no ppoint other than you are stupid, I counterclaimed most of your claims, however, if I did say, 'you are stupid' in about 1000 words, then so be it. I admit it was a bit hostile, but I hate being pigeonholed, just as I showed that you do.

[edlib]

If Atheism is to be classified a religious belief, then there is NO way to ever be non-religious in this country. (That makes no sense, as Zarg has already pointed out, and forces the situation into a 'Catch-22' like closed-feedback loop which you can never escape.)

But if you leave "Under God" in the pledge, then we have to ask, "Who's God?" I know a lot of otherwise patriotic Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Shintos who might be uncomfortable espousing the view that this country was founded under a Judeo-Christian diety alone. The whole point of the term "Freedom of religion" means that those who don't happen to believe in the God you worship, or for that matter no god at all, cannot be forced to say they do, under any circumstance.

 

 

Unless, of course, you want to try and make the point that these folks are somehow 'un-American' for believing in a different way than you, as you have already implied that all Liberals are.

[Taarkin]

Originally posted by Zargon

 

I liked my public schooling that I got for 13 years. School vouchers are bull****, taxes go for PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATION, not to pay someone else for it. I am paying tax money to send your kid to a private school, you want something special, you foot the bill.

From my understanding, vouchers only take tax dollard that wouldhave been spent on a kid in a public school and give parents the option of using that money to go towards private tuition. So it gets more kids a better education without costing taxpayers anything. Plus, public schools will become more competitive. Food for thought.

Here in Illinois the Governer signed a bill requiring the Pledge to be said schoolwide everyday in all public lower education schools.

By "Schoolwide", do you mean every classroom or every student?