HighPingBastard Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 There was once a time when Jedi Knight II was the most entertaining game of the time, but that era has passed now. Newbie lamers are owning the long, experienced players and the game has become less and less Star Wars and has become a mutated form of Quake 3. What has happened? Backsweeps and Backstabs have become too powerful, and worse, any newbie can win by running backwards and getting a lucky back attack. I think many here will agree that kicking is unbalanced. 30 damage just for a kick?? The worst thing about kicking is, it is impossibly easy to master and is fatal when coupled with backsweeping/stabbing. I am sure many of you here have experienced getting kicked while doing a dfa. That is bloody outrageous, what jedi could kick another jedi flying through the air with his saber arcing downwards? Throws are cheap and also too powerful. The honest players will try to attack with their sabers, and throw whore will just step back and throw their sabers. WOW! There is so much skill in that! Another point of concern is the over-use of the force. How many people have entered a server only to be ambushed by pull-backstab lamers or push-backstab lamers? What is the solution to all these problems? Turn it into single-player style fighting! Instead of letting backsweepers and backstabbers spin around effectively taking out everyone, make it so they cannot move (just like single player). Make throws blockable (e.g. Desaan. If you try to throw at him, he will knock your saber down and away from you) and either take kicks out or make the kicker highly vulnerable to any attacks the victim may be enaged in. Online playing has become very very dull apart from the times when you have other players who wish to drop the cheap tricks and have a good old-style saber fight (like phantom menace/attack of the clones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPingBastard Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 One more thing, they should also allow blocking of backsweeps/backstabs. Desaan does it in singleplayer, and it is not unrealistic to assume that a jedi could block a move like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmacdonald's Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 i understand your aggravation. unfortunately for one reason or another, there will never be a patch that'll make lightsaber dueling look something like what you see in the movies. in fact, to adjust to the popularity of limited tactics the final battle in episode 3 will contain nothing but kicks and well placed backstabs and knockdowns, followed by anikan calling obi-wan a n00b. seriously, the only way you'll ever enjoy this game is to either get used to all the cheapness and master the moves yourself (basically there's only 3 or 4) or find a good ghoul 2 server. on these servers, you cant use force pull or push to knock someone down, you cant jump and do the blue stance special, and you cant spin around while doing a backstab. people still kick on these servers, however. another thing you'll want to take a look at is the scripting guide JarDaj and others started. finally someone's nice enough to tell you how to do that spin and other things. the really bad thing is that people are finding more ways to cheat. on another thread in this forum Twins of Doom talks about someone getting 60+ kills in one minute and while the worst thing you could do with this is brag and be d!ck, i cant help but wonder what other, more serious cheats are possible. counterstrike anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingSacrifice Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Ya know, I'm a newb and I don't do any of those things. I like a pure honest fight myself and I get very Pissed when I come across people that do the things like run around backwards and a**stab me every chance they get or sit there like a spinning top and do nothing! It's very aggravating when you can't find a decent server where people just want to saber fight clean. I hear ya Highping, it sucks. I'm still trying to figure out this game and its a drag. Peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 These people are here to stay so either get used to it or do what I and many others have done - find yourself a good SO NF Duel server. Good old style saber fights a plenty. btw: most prefer the saying "new to the game" not n00b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Backsweeps and Backstabs have become too powerful, and worse, any newbie can win by running backwards and getting a lucky back attack. are you telling me you can't avoid it when they are running around backwards? how obvious does a move get? I think many here will agree that kicking is unbalanced. 30 damage just for a kick?? The worst thing about kicking is, it is impossibly easy to master and is fatal when coupled with backsweeping/stabbing. I am sure many of you here have experienced getting kicked while doing a dfa. That is bloody outrageous, what jedi could kick another jedi flying through the air with his saber arcing downwards? a) its only 20 b) if they aren't swinging and are running towards you isn't it obvious that they are gunna kick? roll backwards c) during a DFA, well you are open to it, why wouldn't somebody want to kick you? d) besides, people complain about 20 damage on light stance that it isn't enough...so why is it too much for a kick? Throws are cheap and also too powerful. The honest players will try to attack with their sabers, and throw whore will just step back and throw their sabers. WOW! There is so much skill in that! then don't swing when they are far away Another point of concern is the over-use of the force. How many people have entered a server only to be ambushed by pull-backstab lamers or push-backstab lamers? see my topic on countering this Make throws blockable where have you been? don't swing your saber and you will block the throw! if you don't like what things are like in FFA, etc...join a duel server if you don't like jedi outcast, play something like pacman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadJackMcJack Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Originally posted by lexx These people are here to stay so either get used to it or do what I and many others have done - find yourself a good SO NF Duel server. Good old style saber fights a plenty. Jolt.co.uk's SO nf server is a good one. Noob (i.e. idiots hell bent on ruining the game) level is low, and newbies (those new to the game) are given instruction if asked. And the duel structure is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 a) its only 20 18 from front, 20 from sides b) if they aren't swinging and are running towards you isn't it obvious that they are gunna kick? roll backwards Sorry Lexx, got to use the word n00b in this statement. An expert player knows how to distract you just to fit that kick in. Sort of like tossing a bottle of soda in the air, nitzing a person, then catching the bottle. c) during a DFA, well you are open to it, why wouldn't somebody want to kick you? Might be too busy undercutting/backsweeping d) besides, people complain about 20 damage on light stance that it isn't enough...so why is it too much for a kick? Lets get medium stance corrected before we worry about light stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsbestosTeddy Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 I still say we should all use my patented ElectroDeath TM Keyboard, everytime someone backstabs ( as in spams it ) they get a 20 volt current through there fingers, compounding voltage for consequtive offences, 40 volts for spammed DFA's etc, and kicks ? WELL, IT'S BLOODY BLOODY BLOODY BLOODY OBVIOUS THAT THEY ALL SHOULD BE SHOT - which is why you can buy a modular attachment which has a micro-flechette cannon mounted on the monitor, sort of like a sadistic web-cam. /end sarcy bastard mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienine Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I'm the kind of person that uses proper tactics together with cheap ass tactics... look lately since i have explored these cheap tactics people have been doing (to my unsuspecting testers dismay) and I have in fact learnt how to counter most, yes I get backsweeped the most, well almost all my deaths are back sweep related , but they don't happen too often. Just today I killed a guy who pushed me down onto the ground, tried to back sweep me, but i did a quick getup at the right moment and killed him instantly with a jab to the head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 read my guide here http://jkhq.ath.cx/pushpullcounter.php while everybody has been busy bitching about this, i've written a guide on how to counter it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zan Jaseen Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I agree with the original poster to some extent. Some ideas I have considered that would correct some issues; I Think that one way to fix contant throwing of the saber would be to make it use more force power, I also would not be opposed to having a longer recharge time on force powers. I wish that special lightsaber moves also used a generous amount of force power. This way they would not be able to be spammed. But, I am wishing for things that will never be. In the mean time I have a lot of fun playing this game and will just have to deal with some things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 how would a backstab use force power? think about it, why would you need the force to put your lightsaber behind you, any idiot could do it secondly, the recharge time for force powers can be changed in a server command, i just forget what it is:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zan Jaseen Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I know anyone can backstab. I just suggested it because it would be a way to keep people from spamming special moves without needing to change lots of code already within the game. *Shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Kinnison Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I think it became apparent when i played a Team FFA game the map was the Raven Labs. Now granted, this is a tight map, and it gets crowded very quickly. There are allways 2 ways to score high. Either pull backsweep/backstab, or grab the 2 "good guns" and secondary fire into crowds of enemies. I think Raven software had the right idea to make sabers powerful. But saber fighting is so random tht the only way to win is to do a special move. And once someone find out how to do that specil move he can do really good with the game. You guys remember the video game street fighter II? if you learned how to do the uppercuts iwth Ryu or Ken, you could dominate the game. Would you want to spend a quarter to play against someone when that was all they did? certainly not, i rather play agaisnt the computer, then waste my money played 2 rounds of the game. There are WAY too many saber only servers. mainly becaue a complete noob can run around madly swing his saber and feel like Jedi, but not when he is going up agaisnt a person that uses guns. Guess what? he goes to a saber server when he wont die as often. What needs to be done, is get rid of the pull/knockdown against a saber weilding opponent. I have no prob if they knockdown a person without a saber. But if you have a saber, you need to do it to quickly kill opponents Sword fighting involves not making a mistake. It is very hard to translate sword fighting skills to a POV game. What is the point when i have saber def of 3, it took a bot 2 minutes in bluestance to finally kill me when i had my back to him the whole time. STADING STILL how unrealisitic is that? There is no "Swing combos" that will expose your opponent to a strike. Heavy stance should have a quick attack, and slow recover instead of a baseball style windup followed by a very clumsy swing. I see get people on non-saber only servers only using their sabers, then complaining when they keep getting killed buy guns "I wanna duel" little do they realize they don't know how fight saber vs guns, nor do they want to learn. sadly besides re-writing the whole game, i doubt ti is going ot change, and JKII wil probly be label similar to how X-wing allaince was. Nice game, but not very good MP experiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenroth Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Easy fix to the these problems, return to 1.02, and play no force duel servers. As far as the saber combat being all luck.... and about special moves I have to strongly disagree, perhaps it is in 1.03 but in 1.02 there is plenty of control and skill involved with saber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 i personally think that their is plenty of skill involved in the saber in 1.03 a completly new player may still win a couple fights, but whats wrong with that? at least they'll come back and play it again! the person with skill will win overall I tried the game on a computer at compusmart in a multiplayer game if i had gotten killed EVERY time i wouldn't have bought the game, because it would have just been frustrating i didn't get first, but at least i got some kills so i bought the game, and i practiced, and i got good, but only because i got a couple lucky kills my first time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexual Ewok Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by HighPingBastard Newbie lamers are owning the long, experienced players and the game has become less and less Star Wars and has become a mutated form of Quake 3. What has happened? It's not the moves, it's the players. Everyone thinks he/she is the best or skilled or experienced. Then along comes someone who can exploit the flaws in your play style. Sometimes the person is good, sometimes they are not and simply "get lucky" with a powerful move. The bottom-line though is an experienced play stays in control, predicts and anticipates. An experienced player knows the moves and the counters. If an experienced player gets killed, he learns, adapts and does not make the same mistake again. That is what makes an experienced player. Not simply "owning Padawans" all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehomicidalegg Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 hehe theres not gonna be a 1.04, so either the fan mod, 1.02(dfa and drain 'spammers') or wait till 2006 for the jedi knight 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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